GUILTY IL - Katrina Smith, 30, beaten to death, Machesney Park, 23 Oct 2012 - #2

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Kikigrown said:
Sherlock Holmes said you should never theorize before you have the facts-because then you twist the facts to suit theories rather than twisting theories to suit facts.
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Welcome, Kikigrown!

.... and I love Sherlock Holmes...

:seeya:
 
cluckcluckcluckcluck said:
I know it is splitting hairs, but that is just how I am: LE said she was reported missing the "evening" of 10/23. Can we all agree that that does NOT mean anytime after noon until the 7:50 PM when her vehicle was reported missing? If someone is coming over at 1:00 this afternoon for high tea, I would NEVER say they were coming over this evening. I would say afternoon. Evening means suppertime/twilight until the time he reported her missing. Lets also be clear that the car could have been reported sighted at 7:50PM, and TS may not have reported her missing until 8:30 or 9:00 or 10:00 for all we know. Im not sure that we established that his report (since we have no time clue to establish when that was) lead them to her car. Her car could have been found, they ran the tag, they found her address, they relayed the info, and when there was a break in emergencies, they could have driven to her home. If no one was home and they could not reach Katrina and if TS had not already reported her missing, they would have no way of knowing this was an emergency. Maybe it was only when police called him or a neighbor called him that there were police at his house or he came home and there was a note from PD on his door or something (?), did he then report her missing. I realize this is only a theory, but lets look at all possibilities here. Lets not assume that at 5 PM TS called the Roscoe (?) PD, reported her missing and then they drove to this obtuse corner and found her car. THAT, to me does not seem to be the logical chain of events. My point: By the use of the word EVENING, TS did not report her missing until 5PM-ish or later (before 7:50 and then the car being located or after 7:50 following the car being located) on 10/23. It may make no difference, or it might make a world of difference. JMHO.....
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I don't see any possible logic in thinking he reported it after the car was found because why would they even be looking for it, and LE do not just run random plates of vehicles parked on the side of the road unless it's a major highway at which point they put a warning to be towed sticker on it.

As far as my definition of evening, I agree with you as that is the meaning of evening to me, although mine would be more like 5pm to 8-9pm at which point during this time of year it is already dark for almost all of that, so evening would either not exist this time of year or last an hour at best.

I just took the definition of evening as being the documented one as I figure LE would use the documented/defined term of evening in their press releases. Also I took the order that they stated everything in to be more of a timeline, the husband reported her missing, and at around 7:50pm the vehicle was reported found at such a such intersection. Later on reports came in from neighbors that the vehicle had been seen earlier that morning.

I agree though it would make things so much easier for everyone if they just had stated roughly what time the report of her missing came in, would remove all assumptions about that. They obviously have reason to withhold that for now, perhaps to keep someone else from establishing an alibi based on the time of the report.

Purely hypothetical but what if police are looking into someone else and they happen to know Todd tried contacting her at say 9:30 or 10pm Monday night and called police around that time at which point he was told, there is nothing they can do until after 24 hours unless there was evidence of foul play or danger. So then he had to wait until the next day at which point she did not show up for work or her job interview which would be enough to raise alarms that there is probable cause that the person is in fact missing and was not just out of touch for the night.

Again this is purely speculation, but they are obviously withholding the time of the report for a reason and as long as they catch the person and convict the person who did this, then so be it.
 
LMStyle said:
I don't see any possible logic in thinking he reported it after the car was found because why would they even be looking for it, and LE do not just run random plates of vehicles parked on the side of the road unless it's a major highway at which point they put a warning to be towed sticker on it.

As far as my definition of evening, I agree with you as that is the meaning of evening to me, although mine would be more like 5pm to 8-9pm at which point during this time of year it is already dark for almost all of that, so evening would either not exist this time of year or last an hour at best.

I just took the definition of evening as being the documented one as I figure LE would use the documented/defined term of evening in their press releases. Also I took the order that they stated everything in to be more of a timeline, the husband reported her missing, and at around 7:50pm the vehicle was reported found at such a such intersection. Later on reports came in from neighbors that the vehicle had been seen earlier that morning.

I agree though it would make things so much easier for everyone if they just had stated roughly what time the report of her missing came in, would remove all assumptions about that. They obviously have reason to withhold that for now, perhaps to keep someone else from establishing an alibi based on the time of the report.

Purely hypothetical but what if police are looking into someone else and they happen to know Todd tried contacting her at say 9:30 or 10pm Monday night and called police around that time at which point he was told, there is nothing they can do until after 24 hours unless there was evidence of foul play or danger. So then he had to wait until the next day at which point she did not show up for work or her job interview which would be enough to raise alarms that there is probable cause that the person is in fact missing and was not just out of touch for the night.

Again this is purely speculation, but they are obviously withholding the time of the report for a reason and as long as they catch the person and convict the person who did this, then so be it.
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Disagree, agree, agree....blahblahblah - sounds like us, right? LOL

IMHO....Disagree - If a resident called and said....this car has been sitting by the side of the road since this am or all day or I just noticed it but dont recognize it or whatevs....OR if LE drove by once, maybe twice, they would check it out, contact the owner.

Agree - On the timeframe, all of that, and that they obv are not verifying or specifying time of report for a reason.

Yes, our hypothesizing is mostly due to not much info about what LE knows or does not know. Im a local (not an insider), and I sorta like that we know next to nothing. LE is doing a good job not letting info slip! LOVE THAT (but my curiousity is pouting over it).

Alllllll......moo.......
Lets arrest the murderer already!
 
iirc the reports state the he reported her missing in roscoe which is a substation in the mall which doesnt have all the capabilities of the actual pd(because it is just an old part of the shopping mall, like "sock city" was never supposed to have police communications built into it lol)....and that around the time he was/had filed the report her car was found at 7:50pm. the part that throws this all off is that her car was OFFICIALLY FOUND at 7:50 by le, friends/citizens found the car earlier...so we dont know if they mean that he was reporting her missing at approximately the time it was OFFICIALLY FOUND or when citizens found the car. since most reports have the word evening im going to assume that i means that it was in the EVENING ... likely between the time todd decided that he needed to contact le and probably discussed this with family and friends who then went out searching and he went to the substation to file the report and the searchers found the car and then le sent officers out to the cars location and boom we now have an official time that is close to the time todd went to report her missing...le usually only uses official times, mostly to avoid having these kinds of misunderstanding of time definition. Imo the car has been officially reported missing at 19:50...so, that tells me that todd must have been filing his report around that time as well. they wont give a report time, but they have given us the car found time and that the two go hand in hand....and really they sort of have to give the car time because it occurred out on a public road with friends,family and other citizens standing around watching it happen.....jhvo....and i most desperately need :coffee:

1. Todd realizes that something might be wrong. He talks it over with family/friends. The decision is made that Todd will go to Roscoe and file a report and the rest of the family/friends will start looking around town.
(I would theorize this happening around 18:30 - 19:30)

2. Todd arrives at Roscoe PD -- he is filing the report....and he gets a call from family/friends that they have found the car...Todd tell le that the car is at ventura & obispo and le sends a unit out to see...we know this is at 19:50pm

3. The car was probably found so quickly because other friends had seen it earlier thru out the day and did not know there was a problem...i would bet that family ran into one of these friends who knew exactly where the car was...

ABOVE IS JUST A HYPOTHESIS...:fence: jmvho, moo & imo.....OPINION ONLY...

eta: Roscoe PD is not a "sock city", They are a Fully Equipped Police Station

https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&...10uqUKPzFpOm8QTvy4DABA&sqi=2&ved=0CJMBEPwSMAA
 
Except for Roscoe PD is NOT the little substation near the mall. Roscoe PD/Roscoe Fire is indeed up near Bridge Rd, I think, not too far from the condo. The mall with the little substation is in Machesney Park. Not sure if that makes any diff with your theory, Nellie, or how you saw it in your mind's eye? Correct me if I'm wrong about location, please....
 
cluckcluckcluckcluck said:
Except for Roscoe PD is NOT the little substation near the mall. Roscoe PD/Roscoe Fire is indeed up near Bridge Rd, I think, not too far from the condo. The mall with the little substation is in Machesney Park. Not sure if that makes any diff with your theory, Nellie, or how you saw it in your mind's eye? Correct me if I'm wrong about location, please....
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this was info from locals when i asked "why did Todd report her missing in Roscoe?" -- as you say it looks like a regular pd....i live an hour south so im not a local...

either way, i still think it happened something like i wrote above...but thank you for clarifying the info concerning the Roscoe PD... and im sure Roscoe thanx you too, after I just called them "sock city"....lol :blushing: its all good.

eta:https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&...10uqUKPzFpOm8QTvy4DABA&sqi=2&ved=0CJMBEPwSMAA
 
cluckcluckcluckcluck said:
Except for Roscoe PD is NOT the little substation near the mall. Roscoe PD/Roscoe Fire is indeed up near Bridge Rd, I think, not too far from the condo. The mall with the little substation is in Machesney Park. Not sure if that makes any diff with your theory, Nellie, or how you saw it in your mind's eye? Correct me if I'm wrong about location, please....
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Yeah this was my thought as well. The Mall one is Machesney Park which is led by a Winnebago County Sheriffs Officer.

Roscoe PD has their own Police station, right next door/attached to the secretary of state and the village clerks office and opposing corner from their fire department.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1059...ain+St,+Roscoe,+Illinois+61073&gl=us&t=h&z=20

You can see the Police Cars in the parking lot, but there is no label, but if you goto street view, you can see signage on both the Main Street and Elm Street sides that say Roscoe PD.
 
i keep checking back here hoping for an arrest to have been made so we can get closer to justice for Katrina. please let this come soon!
 
LMStyle said:
So if one truly wanted to disappear, it would be wise to ditch the vehicle and the phone somewhere and then be far from it, via public transportation until your picture goes up on the news, or via a very trusted friend or relative.

Obviously this was not the case in this situation, but people have been known to do similar things to get away, or fake their death to start a new life.
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If this is obviously not the case in this situation, then why even bring up an alternate theory that maybe Katrina disappeared herself? You are starting to sound like a criminal defense attorney, such that Drew Peterson and Scott Peterson had, setting up a defense for trial. It's the first line of defense when a man murders his wife, to say that she ran away and abandoned her entire life and family.

Except in this case, there is a body, and her death has been ruled a homicide. Let's not forget Katrina was beaten and thrown into the river and is a victim of homicide. Even mentioning that sometimes people run away on their own accord and fake their own death, distracts from this case.
 
Iberico said:
If this is obviously not the case in this situation, then why even bring up an alternate theory that maybe Katrina disappeared herself? You are starting to sound like a criminal defense attorney, such that Drew Peterson and Scott Peterson had, setting up a defense for trial. It's the first line of defense when a man murders his wife, to say that she ran away and abandoned her entire life and family.

Except in this case, there is a body, and her death has been ruled a homicide. Let's not forget Katrina was beaten and thrown into the river and is a victim of homicide. Even mentioning that sometimes people run away on their own accord and fake their own death, distracts from this case.
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Why? for the sake of civil discussion. The husband has not been named as a POI. If you have been reading along you should have noticed that LMStyle knows the family , and has known them for decades and I find your post very insensitive considering it is directed at LMStyle...that was their friend in the river ... jmho
 
nervous_nellie said:
Why? for the sake of civil discussion. The husband has not been named as a POI. If you have been reading along you should have noticed that LMStyle knows the family , and has known them for decades and I find your post very insensitive considering it is directed at LMStyle...that was their friend in the river ... jmho
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That's right, and that friend was very likely murdered by someone she knew. Why are we even talking about someone leaving on their own. She didn't leave on her own, she didn't beat herself to death and jump in the river.

I don't know if TS is responsible, but at the moment I, nor LE, nor anyone else has mentioned anyone else with means, motive, opportunity ..

We all just want justice for Katrina .. whatever that looks like.

imo
 
TexasCharm said:
That's right, and that friend was very likely murdered by someone she knew. Why are we even talking about someone leaving on their own. She didn't leave on her own, she didn't beat herself to death and jump in the river.

I don't know if TS is responsible, but at the moment I, nor LE, nor anyone else has mentioned anyone else with means, motive, opportunity ..

We all just want justice for Katrina .. whatever that looks like.

imo
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im not disputing that she most likely knew her murderer..and that he is the most logical choice...i just thought that post was insensitive...just sayin...
 
I respectfully disagree. The only thing about this case that is known for sure is that Katrina was murdered, and in a violent manner. So I do think that mentioning that "some people" choose to abandon their car and fake their own death, is insensitive to the victim and not contributing to a civil discussion.

And not to split hairs too much, but the poster's decades-long relationship goes back with the husband's family, and the victim came into the relationship later. And there is significance in making that distinction.
 
Iberico said:
I respectfully disagree. The only thing about this case that is known for sure is that Katrina was murdered, and in a violent manner. So I do think that mentioning that "some people" choose to abandon their car and fake their own death, is insensitive to the victim and not contributing to a civil discussion.

And not to split hairs too much, but the poster's decades-long relationship goes back with the husband's family, and the victim came into the relationship later. And there is significance in making that distinction.
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that may well be, but I think I will let the poster who knows the family explain how they know them and under what pretenses. moo
 
Well, while we're splitting hairs..


There is significance in the distinction between the relationship that a wife would have with a husband, ... and someone who is a friend of the family.

Nobody really knows what goes on behind closed doors ... except the people living there .. and unfortunately, one of them is deceased.

imo
 
Iberico said:
I respectfully disagree. The only thing about this case that is known for sure is that Katrina was murdered, and in a violent manner. So I do think that mentioning that "some people" choose to abandon their car and fake their own death, is insensitive to the victim and not contributing to a civil discussion.

And not to split hairs too much, but the poster's decades-long relationship goes back with the husband's family, and the victim came into the relationship later. And there is significance in making that distinction.
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:welcome: Iberico!

Thank you for joining us in trying to find justice for Katrina! It is clear we are all searching for justice for poor Katrina... It sounds like you may have some ideas on a solution... something we are all striving for.!

I may make a suggestion... What makes WS such an effective forum is that it is understood when members join that we respect the opinions of others.. even when they may not agree with our own...It is even encouraged that new ideas are presented so that tunnel-vision does not set in...a state which is an obstacle to finding truth.

I am looking forward to hearing your ideas, opinions, and theories of what avenues to take to find a solution for finding justice for Katrina!

:seeya:

JMO
 
LMStyle said:
After the TR days, but before the girls were born, I would say around 1990. Also I would have to check and it would be fairly easy to see, but I believe he did the name change just before the first was born, could have some correlation with the timing, so that they were all Smiths instead of Rapragers. At least if that is the case, it would look more like he did it for that reason, rather than trying to hide from his past which many seem to think the name change was for.
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BBM
Respectfully, the name change is AFTER. The TR>TS case is datedfor
8-10-92. Please don't get defensive, I really want to understand the meaning of your post, as I'm not getting your inferences based on the order. Please doublecheck your sources, and let me know. I've been wrong many times!!
Thanks in advance.


www.cc.co.winnebago.il.us/caseinfo.asp

MOO/IMO
 
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