IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008

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That is really not that far of a distance when I think about it. My driveway is 300 feet long and it takes no time at all for me to walk, let along run to the end of it. But I still think that in order for him to shoot everyone, run up to the front, get in a vehicle (driven by someone else or not) and get out of the parking lot we are looking at just before 10:46 A.M.

911 call at 10:44, last at least 37 seconds that we know of, but I think we have determined that the call is longer than that as not all of the call, at least the first part is cut off ("there is a guy in here with a gun" and what ever else is cut out). We will say the call lasted at least 40-45 seconds before the shooting started. Now we are at 10:44:45 A.M. Runs up to the front, opens front door, gets in a car, backs out of spot in front of door, puts it in drive and drives out of parking lot. That has to take at least a minute. Now we are at about 10:45:45 A.M.

No doubt car 1 is arriving into the Lane Bryant parking lot by this time.

Of course we need to take into account that the 911 call is said to have been placed at 10:44 A.M. but they don't tell us if it was exactly at 10:44 or at 10:44:30 or 10:44:45 and so on. In this case seconds totally matter.

 

[flgrl017]

I’ve been researching 40 yard dash times. The slowest group at the nfl combine (og) averages 5.36. My tween son runs a 7 and his speed is slow. Since 120 ft = 40 yards you gotta add a few seconds to get around any obstacles in the store such as racks and displays plus the front door would slow him down. Just estimating it would take him around 15 seconds to get to a vehicle parked in the front and he would need a few more seconds to get inside. I’m guessing by 20 seconds he could be in the vehicle. If he doesn’t have a driver in the car he’s going to need a few more seconds to start the car. I’m just guessing it’s going to take about 20-25 seconds depending on if he has a driver or not to be backing out of the parking spot.

I do think it’s possible he discovers her about 22 seconds into the call when he says what I think is “get up here.”

 

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Question is, how long in seconds, into the 911 call did the shots occur? We know of 37 seconds of the call and there are no shots heard in those 37 seconds.

How long after the 22 seconds that you hear "get up here" does the call continue, on the 911 call you are listing to?

I think the all 911 call versions are edited not only at the beginning and the end but also in middle. It is all chopped up as LE only wants us to hear enough in hopes that some may be able to recognize his voice.

Good work on the 40 yard run estimates. Really doesn't take much time when you put it that way..

I wanted to add that in the True Crime Garage podcast it was said that clothing had been placed over the women heads. I can't find any LE sources that says this but if it was true it would surely impede his aim in shooting the victims in the head. I have to say that we here have already debunked True Crime Garages time line as they report the killer was in the store up until 10:48 A.M. Therefore I am not putting a lot of stock into True Crime Garages reporting.

I'm only bringing up this point because if the clothing was placed over their heads after he shot them this would add more time to the escape timeline. He could have placed the clothes over their heads before he shot them and this would account for why "Martha" was able to survive.

 

[flgrl017]

I’m not sure how long into the call he starts shooting, but the shots would be edited out if they’re on the call. Since I can hear him best between 22-28 seconds I’m assuming that is when he’s closet to her phone. I here “get up here””I’m losing it” “foolishness” in that time frame. In my mind there is a narrative where that could be around the time he shoots her. The call continues for 12 seconds after that. I’m listening to the Tinley Park pd version.


Maybe he placed the clothes over there heads so they would not see his accomplices if he had some. It’s weird he’d put clothes over their heads since he knew they all saw his face. I also don’t think he had time to put clothes over their heads after the 911 call was placed.

 

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I'm still hoping to get a few moments this weekend to really listen closely to all versions of the 911 call to see what I can hear, just have been so crazy busy with work this week........... When I do take a listen I will pay close attention to the times you have noted.

 

[flgrl017]

I drew a diagram with what we are seeing at 10:45 56-59 on the dash cam.
The black spot is the old LB store front. The blue line is where cop #1 is waiting. The red line the approximately where cop #2 is at 10:45 56 and the path we know he takes. The red x is where he turns at 10:45 59.

There are a couple of the screenshots that I took to help me get points.

The green lines are the ways I would expect car 1 to take from the target parking lot based on its position on the dash cam footage.

 

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Oh that's good!

I especially like the green line with the expected route for car 1. This clearly makes me double down on my thought that car 1 was sitting there waiting for car 2 for sometime. If car 1 got there just a few seconds before car 2 we would have seen car 1 on car 2 dash cam crossing over Frontage Rd but we do not. Car 1 is well in position when it is captured by car 2 dash came sitting parallel to the stores in the parking lot.

Lets also keep in mind that the SUV was seen in front of Lane Bryant at 10:45 but not at 10:46. Even if we say the SUV left at exactly 10:45 that is less than 1 minute before car 2 turns into lot with car 1 sitting there waiting. Again I wish we had access to car 1 dash cam footage. Car 1 is facing the Lane Bryant door.

I keep looking at car 2 footage for the SUV. Like I've said before car 2 does pass a small black SUV before turning into the parking lot... I mean that is right when we might see it sneaking away if the driver of SUV drove around the back to pick up the killer and was just making its way back out to Frontage Rd.

 

[jbirner]

True Crime Diary

I found some interesting reading here. I had read this years ago and forgot all about it. I'm not sure if it is 100% accurate but it has some details I found interesting. I think the Austin, TX connection turned up nothing useful. RM was shot in the forehead while everyone else in the back. I think he shot her in between saying "I'm Losing It" and "Foolishness".

 

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I remember reading that article a while back. It was good to read it once again. It is a well put together piece that really sums a lot of what we know. I also like the way the writer is able to give you the feeling you are actually there.

The whole thing still gives me the chills, still after all theses years.

I've heard that before, that they believe the killer has a southern voice. I don't know about that. Just sounds like a black guy with adrenaline running high in a aggistated state.

I still need to listen to the 911 call again more carefully. The article said Martha estimates it was about 20 seconds after
The start of RM 911 call that she heard sirens.

 

[flgrl017]

It’s interesting that she stated that she heard the sirens after 20 seconds and at 22-28 seconds into the 911 call is when the killer’s voice is the most clear and things seem to escalate. I’m guessing that he heard the sirens too, and he went to check on his hostages when he heard them.

I also don’t hear southern. I hear normal African American accent. I will say that a lot of the African Americans in this area have ties to the south.

History of African Americans in Chicago - Wikipedia

 

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Good point, about 20 seconds into call Martha hears sirens and 22 seconds in his voice is no longer distant as no doubt he is coming back into the break room and discovers RM is on the phone.

Strange thing happened this morning. I was at Cracker Barrel off of I-65, Merrillville In. Was eating and I swear a guy walks in and sits behind me, looked just like the composite drawing of the killer with the single braid hanging down on right side although no green beads and it was really long down to his shoulder. I thought to myself that I'm spending way to much time thinking about this case and my mind is playing tricks on me!!!!

 

[flgrl017]

I know what you mean. I googled Lane Bryant interior the other day and clicked on the image tab. One of those photos is very similar to the sketch.

 

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So I just got done listening the "isolated voice" 911 call. I listen to it about 5 or 6 times and here is what I hear:

Yo
Relax
What do we have here
That all you can do, huh
I'm loosing it
Foolishness
She likes it

I listened to the news released version and did hear a female in the background saying "I'm tired of yelling......." Just not sure if that is one of the victims or another 911 operator.

 

[jbirner]

I think this is a situation where it's all about perception. If you had 100 people listen to this same call and asked each one to write down what they heard, you would most likely get 100 different answers. I think some things are clear, such as I'm Losing it, while other things are difficult. The more I listen to this version, the more I think he is talking to the victims and also an accomplice, maybe in the store or maybe the accomplice is remote.

 

[flgrl017]

I agree. I hear different things when I listen to it. Really the only things that remain constant is seconds 22-28. I think that’s when he discovers she’s on the phone and kills her.

The last thing he says.... Sometimes I hear “like” and sometimes I hear “life”. I need to listen to it on something besides my iPad.

 

[flgrl017]

Would a delivery driver have nice hands? The survivor said his nails were well kept. To me that says he’s not doing much labor.

 

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That is interesting how we all hear different things. I purposely did not read back through either of your post about what you heard before I listened so I would have a opened mind.

One other thing I did hear was at the very start of the "news" released version was music. It lasted less than a second or two, just before RM starts talking. I don't know if that is background music from the store, part of the newscast or background music from 911.

I'm going to try to listen again with ear buds on my phone to see if I hear anything different. I'm especially trying to see if I hear sirens at any point. I also want to see if I can make out more from the "other" women's voice. I definitely hear her say "I'm tired of yelling..."

I think RM was suspicious about this guy and his delivery ploy from the get go, nice hands/manicured nails and all.

 

[jbirner]

I noticed the music too and I thought it might just be the newscast as well. I'm perplexed about the women saying I'm tired of yelling. Something tells me it is another 911 operator. The fact that RM said hurry leads me to believe he was getting ready to do something crazy. I don't think he was going to leave anytime soon and I would go as far to say he might have killed one of them before she called 911. If he did, he then has nothing to lose.

I could never hear any sirens, I think certainly it would make more sense what he said if we knew what the victims were saying as well.

 

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Lane Bryant Homicides, Four-part

This is just a series of local news stories that came out just as it happened. Just thought it was interesting reading. A lot can be gained out of reports that first come out before LE puts a hush on everything.

 

[flgrl017]

Did someone actually see him exit the store?