IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008

[FinePrint]

And I don't believe the one you posted is the full version either. So I've heard, read, watched interviews stating the gun shots started when he realized she was on the phone. Yet on none of the versions of 911 calls do you hear shots. Therefore those reports are not true and he did not begin shooting when he realized she was on the phone or those reports are true and we are not getting the complete 911 call. Last thing I hear is RM saying something like "I won't hang up" and than a dial tone. I think the dial tone was just edited in there to make everyone believe the call had ended.

Shooting at someones head does not make the call end... I can understand if they did not release the entire call if the shots are heard because it would obviously be horrific and I'm sure the victims were screaming.

 

[flgrl017]

On the news’s version, do you hear a woman in the background too? I think I do. It may be another 911 dispatcher in the call room or another one of the hostages.

I believe the dial tone was edited. I think the version in tinley parks site is the same call. The call may have still been connected when the cops showed up for all we know.

 

[FinePrint]

Yeah it's the same version. The Tinley version is the version were they have isolated his voice.

Yes I definitely hear the women in the background. I also believe the phone connection was still live when LE arrived.

So much we just don't know. I still need to find the interview where LE says Martha said he left out the front door. That is such a key issue.

Still wondering why those 10:08 parking lot photos appear to have so much attention by LE. Could what ever is seen in those photos reveal something that leads them to believe he entered the store at 10:08?

 

[flgrl017]

It may be the perp in the parking lot or close to the door. It looks like they took the same photo and blew it up several times. I’m guessing they put different filters on it so that’s why there are so many. I definitely think somethings in it of interest for them to have it up.

Is there any chance of the tech getting better one day or are we stuck with these photos? Not sure how that works...

 

[jbirner]

Those images from the Target camera are so grainy they have to enhance them 300%. He was wearing a jacket and a cap, wondering how much they can see in the 10:08 photo. I think they were looking more for vehicles that were in the LB lot and comparing to 10:39-10:45. Because of the limited information we are provided, we can only speculate.

They released the shorter version of the 911 call first. There is really nothing on that call of use if you ask me. The female voice in the background can be a victim or another 911 operator. It sounds like she is saying something to the affect of "I'm tired of yelling". Could possibly be an accomplice that came into the store to give him the information of police in the parking lot. Perhaps they were communicating verbally and she came closer to talk in a more normal tone. That is just a wild guess. The other call that is on the TP site is perhaps the full call with everybody's voice edited out except for the killer. What I always ask is, why would she call 911 if she thought he was going to just leave. Makes me think he had already shot someone or assaulted one of them and RM felt she had no other choice and she was going to die either way. Normally in a robbery you wait for the person to leave and then call 911 because when police get involved and the perp is still in the store, he might feel cornered and do something crazy. The fact that she called 911 makes me thin RM felt he was going to kill them anyway so she had nothing to lose by calling 911 at that juncture.

 

[FinePrint]

I like this interview because we hear from LE mouth that RM placed the 911 call and said "there was a guy in the store with a gun" and "she got interrupted during the phone call"

This shows me that there is a lot more to the 911 call than has been released. In no version of the 911 call did I hear RM say there was a guy in the store with a gun. Also I have not heard in any of the 911 call versions released any indication of the call being interrupted.

If you watch car 2 dash cam you see LE approaching the door. It appears before the footage is cut off that they are reaching for their weapons. However I noticed that their posture was not one of knowing there was potentially still a guy in the store with a gun. They would have not made themselves that vulnerable to the store front windows. I'm not sure what to make of that...

 

[flgrl017]

What stands out to me when you listen to both 911 calls is that there is some type of commotion happening with the perp and someone else outside the breakroom. We’ve been told that the 6 ladies were bound and gagged and the perp stepped out of the breakroom and the manager was able to get free and call 911. When you hear the unedited first few seconds I’m convinced that he isn’t yelling at the manager during that part of the call. Then I ask myself who is he talking to if all the other victims are in the room with the manager.

The reports could be wrong and one of the hostages could have been outside the breakroom. Other two theories of mine is he’s talking to an accomplice on the phone or in person.

I’ve also had the thought that he may have killed some of them earlier on. They did say that the manager could have went out the back door, but she tried to help everyone. There may have been another reason she didn’t go out the back door though...

I also think the voice at 12 seconds into long version is saying “police are here” and it belongs to someone else. I’ve listed to the call a lot this morning and I’m going to step away from it for a few days and see if I hear the same thing.


One thing that stands out to me about that store front is the wall betweeen the mannequin display and the rest of the store. That would have made it hard for him to watch the front for more customers and manage the hostages in the back. Seems like he would need some help.

 

[jbirner]

Right after she says Lane Bryant, we hear "Yo". I would bet every penny he was yelling to an accomplice, it sounds to me like he said "cover your head" at the 12 second mark. Maybe he is telling the accomplice to put his or her cap on so people can't identify them as easily. A few seconds later, when he says some thing to the effect of "your such a hero right" I think he is now talking to RM. I'm not sure why he said "you're lucky". It sounds like some things he is saying up close, and others he is shouting far. I can only think he was speaking to an accomplice at the same time he was shooting. Maybe an unwilling accomplice that was thinking this would be a simple robbery and somehow it turned into a hostage situation, making this accomplice uneasy. What if this person was wanting to turn on him and the gunman was going to shoot him too, but he got away before he could shoot him, hence him saying you're lucky, as in you're lucky I didn't shoot you. He gets in the SUV and takes off. The gunman finishes shooting the women, leaves out the back door, goes toward the front and gets into a waiting vehicle, probably a third accomplice/getaway driver.

 

[FinePrint]

I need to find some time where I can get some complete silence in this house, no TV, no dogs wrestling around, just complete quite. I want to just take the time (like both of you have) and listen to both versions, stopping and backing up over and over to see what I can make out. The same process I used to analyze the dash cam, 911 and parking lot photo time stamps.

I really want to pay attention to all voices, try to distinguish how many different voices are heard and his voice when it is distant from RM and when it's closer to RM.

Maybe RM felt that it was all going so bad in there, witnessed the scuffle with one women and him fondling another women (or maybe the same woman) and realized he was not going to leave quietly and therefore called 911.

The other question I have for both of you is this; do either of you hear sirens in the background on the 911 call?

It has been said that Martha heard Sirens prior to the shootings while RM was on the 911 call.

 

[FinePrint]

Kinda creepy to talk about but I've always thought he may have done more than just fondled one of the woman.

We speculate why he was in the store so long. I think he tied up the women so he would be freed up to rape.

I did make out in the 911 call him saying "she likes it"

Sickening to think of it but could account for the excessive time he spent there.

 

[jbirner]

That is probably the reason he stayed so long and the reason she called 911. Whatever he was doing to them, RM felt risking all of their lives to call 911, knowing he would probably shoot her and the rest if he catches her, was a better option than just waiting it out. We may never know what actually went on, maybe if this ever goes to trial the details will come out.

I did not hear sirens in the background of the call, however I don't think we would have until they were close enough. Perhaps one day we will get Martha's account first hand of what happened, minute by minute. Not until he, or they, is locked up.

 

[flgrl017]

I think he’s closet to RM between 22-28 second mark of the call because to me it seems clearer. I here “get up here””I’m losing it” “foolishness” in that clip.

I don’t hear the sirens either. I’m not sure if they could edit those out since it’s a continuous sound. If the siren she heard was traveling south on Harlem it would have taken a bit for him to circle around and enter the mall.

 

[flgrl017]

Another thing to think about the timing of the suv arrival, RM being able to free herself & call 911, and the the suv leaving.

 

[FinePrint]

Well if it ever happens that they catch this guy and there is a trial, I will be there everyday. No doubt about that. This thing has just haunted me for the last 11 years. I just cannot imagine how the families coup with this.

It sure would be interesting to see how "on" or "off" we have been with our analysis having only information that has been made public to try to figure out what happened. Could you imagine sitting in that court room with the killer, the survivor, the families and LE after all of this time.....

 

[FinePrint]

Another thing to think about the timing of the suv arrival, RM being able to free herself & call 911, and the the suv leaving.

Yes, this whole timeline is extremely tight!

 

[FinePrint]

I think he’s closet to RM between 22-28 second mark of the call because to me it seems clearer. I here “get up here””I’m losing it” “foolishness” in that clip.

I don’t hear the sirens either. I’m not sure if they could edit those out since it’s a continuous sound. If the siren she heard was traveling south on Harlem it would have taken a bit for him to circle around and enter the mall.

Or was it car 1 sirens leaving the Target parking lot. I'm sure he would have turned them off once he was parked waiting for car 2 to arrive.

 

[flgrl017]

Or was it car 1 sirens leaving the Target parking lot. I'm sure he would have turned them off once he was parked waiting for car 2 to arrive.

Very well could be.
I wonder if car #2 was actually dispatched first since car 1 was on a call. I’m not sure what would have to happen for car 1 to get pulled off it’s call.

 

[FinePrint]

Good point!

 

[jbirner]

I think when the whole truth comes out, we will all be surprised how many details we have correct. I'm sure there are things we don't know and I'm sure there will be some surprises, things we never would have thought of, but will make sense once we hear them.

I think we will feel like we are having an out of body experience when we finally hear of an arrest and identity of the killer.

 

[flgrl017]

I was able to measure the distance from around where the breakroom would be to about where he would enter a car parked where the suv of interest was. The side of the building is 100 ft.