IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #3

[vestigare]

In want to correct something I said earlier.
He did say that CODIS was still running the tests. Not sure I believe that. I misunderstood his second statement as claiming new DNA was in ref to CODIS. It wasn't, it was in ref to the locally kept DNA.

 

[looking4OPH]

Oh, he also stated leads lead to leads that lead to more leads, sometimes 10 or 15 more just from a single lead. He wants us know all the leads are being investigated.

I didn't hear the presser very clearly as I was multi-tasking in the crowd watching a local high school game. I thought I heard Covelli say they've had 300 leads, sort of showing some substance to ongoing investigation effort. Did I get that right?

Cause if I did, I swear at one of the earlier pressers in the past couple of weeks, it seemed to me someone said they had 300 leads at THAT point in time. If I've got this right (which would seem odd to me), have they not gotten any NEW leads in weeks?

 

[vestigare]

I think they are being really stupid not to answer questions like whether he shot his own gun.

If you can't rule or suicide then he must have shot the gun whether at someone else or himself. No need to keep the GSR on him a secret. It's a matter of logic.
They are just being cagey for the sake of being mysterious now.

 

[vestigare]

http://www.nwherald.com/2015/09/21/...-on-ballistics-gunshot-residue-tests/av4mp0d/

"The detective also said there was DNA from an unknown source collected located at several locations at the crime scene, and that one of those pieces was of high enough quality to run through the FBI's Combined DNA Index System (CODIS).

That piece is currently being run through the system, Covelli said, and other DNA found on the scene is being run against DNA swabs the police have collected throughout the investigation."

According to this article, the reporter interpreted what Covelli said as quoted above (she didn't quote Covelli though).
She wrote that multiple samples of the same DNA were found at the scene of which one was a sufficient sample that is currently being tested in CODIS.

Note: No results stated - match or no match.

Other DNA found at the scene is being tested against swabs police have obtained from people.

Note: But the sufficient sample is not being tested against swabs obtained from people?

I just rewatched the new conf. He didn't say the same.DNA multiple.times. I think the report misunderstood.

He did however claim CODIS was still running the DNA which I am not sure is true. CODIS is pretty fast.
He also.said they have dna not sent to CODIS they are matching it seems whenever they can convince someone to hand over a swab.

Remember the FBI doesn't accept all.DNA into CODIS but that doesn't stop LE grim using what crazy DNA they have found and try to find a match.

 

[Walker007]

Several DNA samples were found at the scene. Only one was of sufficient quality that it quailified to be entered into CODIS. When entered that DNA did not match or hit with any currently in the system. However, whenever new DNA is entered into the system it is a computer so it automatically checks the new against those already in the system. So he was saying it is possible they will get a match in the future with new DNA being entered. That I think was just his way of being evasive because all DNA in CODIS had the potential to be matched one day with new DNA.

The other swabs from known people collected around town should not have been sent to CODIS as they were collected only for the purposes of ruling out their DNA.

He did NOT say there was NO match in CODIS. What he said was the unknown DNA sample "is currently being worked through the CODIS system". (Added by me: this takes time)

I also want to add a thought, when he mentions "unknown source DNA located at several locations at scene, more than just one" -- My thought is that the source DNA may possibly be from some form of defensive wound on one of the suspects which was located in multiple spots? This could be a trickle of blood and I would stop at that because a larger source may have continued creating a trail. Whatever it is, it is obviously significant. I will also add that all of these tests being conducted to compare the DNA samples individually are costly and time consuming.

 

[Tillicum]

I'll throw out another possibility. What if CG pulled his gun while closing in on one or two suspects and the third came in from beside or behind him and tried to grab the gun? That could be when the first shot fired and hit his phone and then one of the three could've shot the fatal shot from their own gun.

 

[vestigare]

He did NOT say there was NO match in CODIS. What he said was the unknown DNA sample "is currently being worked through the CODIS system". (Added by me: this takes time)

I also want to add a thought, when he mentions "unknown source DNA located at several locations at scene, more than just one" -- My thought is that the source DNA may possibly be from some form of defensive wound on one of the suspects which was located in multiple spots? This could be a trickle of blood and I would stop at that because a larger source may have continued creating a trail. Whatever it is, it is obviously significant. I will also add that all of these tests being conducted to compare the DNA samples individually are costly and time consuming.

Thanks I rewatched the video and corrected myself.
However, I am calling BS on CODIS still running because CODIS takes like 3 days once the markers are found and entered into the system.

So if they are claiming CODIS is running right now and started only today they will have a match or not by the end of the week.

To be sent to CODIS it has to be explained how it can be tired to a crime. It can't just be DNA located near crime. So a trail of blood or on a weapon etc...

 

[vestigare]

I'll throw out another possibility. What if CG pulled his gun while closing in on one or two suspects and the third came in from beside or behind him and tried to grab the gun? That could be when the first shot fired and hit his phone and then one of the three could've shot the fatal shot from their own gun.

Down his chest at close range?

 

[Boo Radley]

Very little new info from the press conference but he confirmed that the received the gun powder residue results & ballistics results. He then said that he won't go into details of the results but did say that the results did not confirm or eliminate any possible scenarios.
Based on this:
1) they must have found GPR on Lt G's hands because if there was none on his hands then they could have ruled out suicide.
2) they must not have found evidence of bullets that did not come from his gun or they would have ruled out suicide. No other shell casings and the damage to vest and his body did not point to a different caliber weapon.
3) they must not have found evidence that the shot to the vest or the fatal wound to the chest were fired from a distance great enough to rule out possibility of self-infliction or they would have ruled out suicide.

So he was shot twice, only 2 shell casings found, GPR on his hands, shots fired from within arms length. The only way I can see this being murder is if he shot at his attackers twice, somehow missed both times (or there would have been a blood trail that every dog would have followed), shell casings somehow end up 100 ft apart, his attackers then shoot him twice with similar caliber weapon, collect the shell casings, and vanish without a trace. I am trying hard to imagine a plausible scenario other than suicide but I am coming up empty.
My prayers are with the Lt G's family and with all LE officers.

 

[Tillicum]

Down his chest at close range?

Possibly.

 

[Montjoy]

I also want to add a thought, when he mentions "unknown source DNA located at several locations at scene, more than just one" -- My thought is that the source DNA may possibly be from some form of defensive wound on one of the suspects which was located in multiple spots?

I'm absolutely positive that if the investigators even suspected that they had evidence of a struggle, especially evidence like blood suspected to be from a perp, we would have been hearing non-stop about it.

 

[vestigare]

Very little new info from the press conference but he confirmed that the received the gun powder residue results & ballistics results. He then said that he won't go into details of the results but did say that the results did not confirm or eliminate any possible scenarios.
Based on this:
1) they must have found GPR on Lt G's hands because if there was none on his hands then they could have ruled out suicide.
2) they must not have found evidence of bullets that did not come from his gun or they would have ruled out suicide. No other shell casings and the damage to vest and his body did not point to a different caliber weapon.
3) they must not have found evidence that the shot to the vest or the fatal wound to the chest were fired from a distance great enough to rule out possibility of self-infliction or they would have ruled out suicide.

So he was shot twice, only 2 shell casings found, GPR on his hands, shots fired from within arms length. The only way I can see this being murder is if he shot at his attackers twice, somehow missed both times (or there would have been a blood trail that every dog would have followed), shell casings somehow end up 100 ft apart, his attackers then shoot him twice with similar caliber weapon, collect the shell casings, and vanish without a trace. I am trying hard to imagine a plausible scenario other than suicide but I am coming up empty.
My prayers are with the Lt G's family and with all LE officers.

Exactly. And why not answer questions which logically would have to be if you are not ruling or suicide or accident. Just stupid. Do they honestly think we are all so stupid we can't understand what this news conf was about?

 

[vestigare]

Possibly.

See Boo Radley's Post above....

 

[Walker007]

I found this presser to be ripe. Good information, straight forward and honest. All makes perfect and legitimate sense to me and wasn't a necessity to conduct it. My guess is they conducted this presser rather than their planned printed news release to alleviate some of the rumors for the family sake as the LT son has been vocal recently and this is extremely difficult for families of victims, probably not a courtesy that would have been extended for a non-LEO family, JMO. The detective stated this was a homicide investigation and that justice will be served in this investigation. The air of confidence at this juncture amidst a known coverup would be counter productive, IMO. All angles being investigated is attempting to reassure non-bias. I also think the ME is a little emotional in his endeavor as his statement included "his feelings are hurt" but irregardless it sounds as if all have been briefed.

Also, worth mentioning is one of the K-9's positively TRACKED away from the scene. Remember, TRACKING dogs following odors caused by ground disturbance. There are scents that rise from displaced soil, crushed vegetation etc etc.. Like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts. It's a very interesting science. The detective seemed very firm in knowing the K-9 was able to positively track at least ONE suspect.

 

[vestigare]

I'm absolutely positive that if the investigators even suspected that they had evidence of a struggle, especially evidence like blood suspected to be from a perp, we would have been hearing non-stop about it.

Exactly.
You have blood from another person leading away from a body or on a body and this task force would have used that to shut down Rudd immediately.

 

[kodi]

Very little new info from the press conference but he confirmed that the received the gun powder residue results & ballistics results. He then said that he won't go into details of the results but did say that the results did not confirm or eliminate any possible scenarios.
Based on this:
1) they must have found GPR on Lt G's hands because if there was none on his hands then they could have ruled out suicide.
2) they must not have found evidence of bullets that did not come from his gun or they would have ruled out suicide. No other shell casings and the damage to vest and his body did not point to a different caliber weapon.
3) they must not have found evidence that the shot to the vest or the fatal wound to the chest were fired from a distance great enough to rule out possibility of self-infliction or they would have ruled out suicide.

So he was shot twice, only 2 shell casings found, GPR on his hands, shots fired from within arms length. The only way I can see this being murder is if he shot at his attackers twice, somehow missed both times (or there would have been a blood trail that every dog would have followed), shell casings somehow end up 100 ft apart, his attackers then shoot him twice with similar caliber weapon, collect the shell casings, and vanish without a trace. I am trying hard to imagine a plausible scenario other than suicide but I am coming up empty.
My prayers are with the Lt G's family and with all LE officers.

Great post, Boo Radley. :tyou:

 

[Walker007]

I just rewatched the new conf. He didn't say the same.DNA multiple.times. I think the report misunderstood.

He did however claim CODIS was still running the DNA which I am not sure is true. CODIS is pretty fast.
He also.said they have dna not sent to CODIS they are matching it seems whenever they can convince someone to hand over a swab.

Remember the FBI doesn't accept all.DNA into CODIS but that doesn't stop LE grim using what crazy DNA they have found and try to find a match.

I have waited months with families after their DNA was submitted into CODIS against UID'S. Again, I am sure this case is a priority but it isn't as fast as you see on Television.

 

[vestigare]

I found this presser to be ripe. Good information, straight forward and honest. All makes perfect and legitimate sense to me and wasn't a necessity to conduct it. My guess is they conducted this presser rather than their planned printed news release to alleviate some of the rumors for the family sake as the LT son has been vocal recently and this is extremely difficult for families of victims, probably not a courtesy that would have been extended for a non-LEO family, JMO. The detective stated this was a homicide investigation and that justice will be served in this investigation. The air of confidence at this juncture amidst a known coverup would be counter productive, IMO. All angles being investigated is attempting to reassure non-bias. I also think the ME is a little emotional in his endeavor as his statement included "his feelings are hurt" but irregardless it sounds as if all have been briefed.

Also, worth mentioning is one of the K-9's positively TRACKED away from the scene. Remember, TRACKING dogs following odors caused by ground disturbance. There are scents that rise from displaced soil, crushed vegetation etc etc.. Like I mentioned in one of my earlier posts. It's a very interesting science. The detective seemed very firm in knowing the K-9 was able to positively track at least ONE suspect.

I think the presser was one of two things. Either they were attempting to snow us with inconclusive "evidence" and hoped we were all too stupid to understand how DNA, CoDIS and GPR works or they are truly stupid and have fooled themselves.

As you pointed out the dogs tracked one trail away from scene. Could have been any one who was in that yard in the previous hours for any reason.

For all we know there may have been a completely innocent person in that area who heard gunshots and got the heck out of there. Having nothing to do with a suicidal cop. I am not sure I would come forward either if I were that person the way cops jump to conclusions.

I am sure Rudd makes mistakes and I think there is a lot of politics going on here but I can't see how it helps when a task force accused him of being the one stalling when he wasn't, and then refuses to meet with him, and then claims he didn't have authority to release info which he did have the authority. Rudd legally could release much more.

 

[Montjoy]

The detective seemed very firm in knowing the K-9 was able to positively track at least ONE suspect.

rsbm -

As wonderful as the dogs are, they're not criminalists or criminologists. They track, as you rightly pointed out, scent trails. They don't necessarily track suspects. The dog might have been tracking CG, a racoon, or somebody who went for a walk for all we know. Of course the detective would play it up as if it were the trail of a suspect, but he can't know that himself -- it just fits his story.

 

[vestigare]

I have waited months with families after their DNA was submitted into CODIS against UID'S. Again, I am sure this case is a priority but it isn't as fast as you see on Television.

I don't watch CSI or other crime tv so I don't know how that works. CODIS takes just days once the data is entered. The issue is getting it entered. Or in isolating the points for entry which requires usually another lab before it is submitted.. That obviously has been done as CODIS is running it or so he claimed.