IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

[cady]

Yes, the retirement plans are cloudy. We do know that he applied for the Chief job in Antioch, but I don't know if he actually applied for Chief in Fox Lake. Was Behan's retirement plan already official for a date certain? Did he resign on that date>or was the resignation abrupt? JMO

 

[vestigare]

BBM

I can assure you that he was involved. The comments during the press conferences show that they are trying to avoid a definitive response and are attempting to word the denials of Joe's involvement deceptively.

Joe was the Lt. in charge of "Operations " for the PD. In this role, he would have (or should have) routinely reviewed the incident in question, shortly after it occurred. When the citizen filed a complaint regarding his treatment while in custody, Joe would have been involved. When the Chief (Joe's friend & coworker for 30 years) investigated and dismissed the complaint, Joe would have been involved. When the citizen pursued his complaint to the elected officials of Fox Lake who felt it warranted an outside investigator, common sense says that Joe's role & involvement will be scrutinized closely.

Worst case scenario, I think he likely just went along with the dismissive handling of the arrestee's relatively minor complaint. The alleged rude & rough treatment is unfortunately very common, especially with those arrested for DUI. They are often rude, uncooperative, and combative. When trying remain patient and impartial, human nature can sometime trump professional discretion. Officers may become complacent and feel this is permissible because it is relatively rare for someone arrested for DUI to follow up on a complaint of this nature. They must overcome their impaired recollection, embarrassment for the arrest, and the institutional resistance that they will face.

At Fox Lake, the 3 Lieutenants hold the rank directly below the chief. Joe, as the Lt in charge of Operations, holds the position with the wide ranging responsibilities most like those of the chief. Based on this, and the effusive praise from the Mayor, former Chief Behan, and others, I would have expected the Mayor to have appointed Joe as the interim police chief after Behan was suspended. This obviously was not done. Makes me wonder what the mayor discussed with Joe the day before his death.

That might be true. I hadn't thought about him being the Operations Chief. He was also the Communications Chief so would he have been privy to complaints in that capacity?
I know he was being investigated in another investigation and I think the Task Force is being really careful never to bring that investigation up to the press because as long as they can keep denying he wasn't the focus of the Behan investigation then they are golden.

I think Joe expected to be made Chief at least interim Chief and we know that didn't happen. So something was seriously going where the higher ups were not willing to give Joe a leg up. Could be personal could be political could be tied to investigations and they just can't put themselves into more hot water.

It will be interesting to see who is made Chief ....

 

[vestigare]

Rather than left handed, I would think that one would want to use their dominant hand when firing a fatal shot. It seems possible that he could have easily used his right hand in a position similar to putting your right hand over your heart. He could have pointed the gun at the center of his chest, just above the vest, close to where the knot of a tie would be. The gun could be at an angle to shoot down and to the left, hitting the heart, and causing the devastating fatal injury as described.

True, however, He might have used his non dominant hand in an effort to further try to make it look like a homicide.

 

[vestigare]

]

Snipped by me.
It is interesting that they are waiting for websites to comply with requests. You would think his wife would have his passwords.

 

[vestigare]

We get it. You think it is a suicide. And you may well be correct. But clearly not everyone is in agreement with you just yet. As I have stated several times, there are some people who are viewing this as a suicide and want additional evidence to convince them otherwise. Some of us are viewing this as a homicide and want to see additional evidence that it is a suicide. And I do not believe we have all of the information we need at this point, at least not publicly. That doesn't mean we don't understand your point of view. You have explained it a million ways from Sunday. We all get it. You think it is a suicide. You feel they are wasting time and money, and they are covering it up. We get it. But not all of us are convinced yet. It is quite alright for you to express your opinion on the case, but it is not ok to continue to call out anyone who might not agree with you as not "getting it."

I get it that you think it is homicide however you will never get additional evidence it was suicide because the evidence you have been given already points to suicide. The coronor does not need additional evidence of suicide. He is waiting for any evidence that says it WASN'T suicide.

Why did you quote not "getting it"?
That wasn't even said in the post you quoted.....?

 

[vestigare]

Examples of an "obvious" suicide:
Note left behind
Attempted suicide in the past
Known history of mental illness, depression/anxiety, etc...
Witnesses to the suicide
Prior indication of the desire to commit suicide
Significant life events such as divorce, death of a loved one, loss of a job, serious economic difficulties
Victim found alone inside a locked home, or in a situation that there would be no other possible conclusion

Not so "obvious" suicides
Trusted member of the community
Happy home life
No history of mental illness
No history of suicide attempts
No outward signs of life difficulties
Any indications pointing to homicide, i.e. a distress call, evidence of a struggle, shot twice, unexplained DNA
Coroner stating publicly that he cannot determine a MOD until he has more information, but is leaning toward homicide.

Now we can argue the validity of all of these items and that is fine. But the truth of the matter is that this is NOT an "obvious" suicide.

No, a note does not PROVE suicide. Attempted suicides in the past does not PROVE this is suicide this time. Mental Illness history does not PROVE it is suicide.
None of that in facts proves suicide.

No, trusted people kill themselves all the time. People can appear happy but not be. None of those are PROOF this wasn't suicide.

There is evidence and then there is conjecture.
There is no "Obvious" suicide listing on evidence forms.

 

[vestigare]

I have a possible explanation for the apparent confusion regarding Joe's retirement timing. A previous post stated that he had 30 years of service as of April 2015. At that point, his pension will be 75% of his salary and the % will not grow any higher if he continues to work. Despite this, many in LE work beyond 30 years.

Joe clearly wanted to continue working in LE as evidenced by the fact he applied for several police chief positions. It is typical to informally discuss your potential retirement as Joe probably had done, hence the tentative December 2015 retirement date that is frequently referenced. He may have needed his current income but expected to have secured a job as police chief by December. If appointed chief, he would then be able to collect his 75% pension and the salary from his new job.

There are reports that he was considering moving his retirement to an earlier date in September. This would seem to coincide with his application for the position of police chief in his town of residence, Antioch. He was likely a finalist for the position and as a courtesy, mentioned that he may need to retire earlier than December if he is offered the position.

Joe's wife, with the benefit of hindsight, understandably stated that she wishes he had "just walked away". Obviously, a 75% pension while continuing to seek another job would be preferable to losing her husband while he was working, in what may be a murder.

The mayor had reportedly asked Joe to postpone his retirement and stay for another month after the current chief abruptly resigned. Postpone? But there was no mention of an imminent retirement. Did this statement from the mayor hint that he had knowledge of this? The mayor could have asked Joe to serve as interim chief and pushed to make this permanent. Why only ask him to "postpone" his retirement (which was not public knowledge). Because of their personal & professional relationship, they most certainly had discussed the future leadership of the PD after Chief Behan's sudden retirement. Maybe they discussed information which could, in the mayor's opinion, potentially complicate Joe's appointment as chief. Maybe Joe was unhappy about this and decided to retire imminently. This would then explain why the mayor was forced to ask Joe to at least stay another month to assist in the transition of department leadership.

But the wife did say specifically that he had reached retirement just the day before? Why did she say that? They also keep saying he is a 32 year veteran of the PD but he was 30 years on the force? It is very confusing all the dates they keep conflating.

I do think some of it is media misunderstanding things. Others is people misspeaking. I wish they would just come out and say exactly when his last day was supposed to be according to the Chief or mayor or whomever would have been told.

 

[vestigare]

Yes, the retirement plans are cloudy. We do know that he applied for the Chief job in Antioch, but I don't know if he actually applied for Chief in Fox Lake. Was Behan's retirement plan already official for a date certain? Did he resign on that date>or was the resignation abrupt? JMO

Behan was an abrupt retirement. HE didn't decide to retire until after he was suspended. Which I understand why would you stick around for a suspension when you can retire right?
And his retirement went through in week essentially. You can see the timing of the meeting where he was suspended, followed by his putting his retirement to the town.
The meeting for suspension was Friday Aug 21.
He resigned on Wed Aug 26.
And his paperwork went to the town on the 27th.

 

[vestigare]

Yes, the retirement plans are cloudy. We do know that he applied for the Chief job in Antioch, but I don't know if he actually applied for Chief in Fox Lake. Was Behan's retirement plan already official for a date certain? Did he resign on that date>or was the resignation abrupt? JMO

I don't think Behan was planning to retire so Joe wouldn't have been thinking about that job until the 27th when Behan abruptly retired.
Which makes me think the Mayor had to have discussed this retirement with Joe on the 31st and maybe told Joe he was not likely to get the position.
I know they didn't actually turn the job over to the interim chief until the 5th I think it was but they were dealing with Joe's death for all those days between the 31st when they had the meeting and the 5th when they decided who to appoint.

You would think had the mayor told Joe that he was going to get the interim chief's spot if he wanted it that the Mayor would have been proud to announce that.
Which makes me think that Joe was not going to be offered it. So why?
Unless the mayor was flatly turned down by Joe and in that case the Mayor is keeping quiet that Joe said no to the offer because he thinks that was bizarre considering as his good friend I would think he knew (it was on social media) that he was applying for other Chief positions and being even an interim Chief would be a bonus when applying elsewhere for Chief positions.

 

[Elley Mae]

Snipped by me.
It is interesting that they are waiting for websites to comply with requests. You would think his wife would have his passwords.

I wouldn't/don't think that, I have no idea what my hubby's passwords are to the multiple sites he goes to. And who knows if his wife knows of all the sites he went to or what he ever looked up.

 

[Chuz Life]

Rather than left handed, I would think that one would want to use their dominant hand when firing a fatal shot. It seems possible that he could have easily used his right hand in a position similar to putting your right hand over your heart. He could have pointed the gun at the center of his chest, just above the vest, close to where the knot of a tie would be. The gun could be at an angle to shoot down and to the left, hitting the heart, and causing the devastating fatal injury as described.

(still assuming the Lt shot himself)

Your comment hits a key point in the investigation, Boo Radley. I think the precise placement, distance and angle of the 2nd shot "might" show the Lt's actual intent. From that data, investigators should be able to determine how deliberate that placement might have been.

 

[vestigare]

I wouldn't/don't think that, I have no idea what my hubby's passwords are to the multiple sites he goes to. And who knows if his wife knows of all the sites he went to or what he ever looked up.

It isn't like it is difficult to figure the passwords out if you live with the man.....
Just saying.

 

[vestigare]

(still assuming the Lt shot himself)

Your comment hits a key point in the investigation, Boo Radley. I think the precise placement, distance and angle of the 2nd shot "might" show the Lt's actual intent. From that data, investigators should be able to determine how deliberate that placement might have been.

Exactly! I think that is why they are being so elusive to answer exactly how it entered and where it entered and what hands were involved. Because it might be in at an angle that a second person standing over your upright body would have to be a contortionist to have helped you pull the trigger.

 

[vestigare]

I wouldn't/don't think that, I have no idea what my hubby's passwords are to the multiple sites he goes to. And who knows if his wife knows of all the sites he went to or what he ever looked up.

Just a side note. You might want to ask your husband for his Social Media passwords. When a person passes away it can be difficult to get Facebook, LinkedIn, Myspace or Twitter to remove the site if you are not in possession of the passwords. And you might not wish to have that info remaining out there after he is dead.

Just a thought. Nothing meant by it.
There are also companies that can manage this for you which people might want to look into.

 

[Chuz Life]

(still assuming the Lt shot himself)

Your comment hits a key point in the investigation, Boo Radley. I think the precise placement, distance and angle of the 2nd shot "might" show the Lt's actual intent. From that data, investigators should be able to determine how deliberate that placement might have been.

Exactly! I think that is why they are being so elusive to answer exactly how it entered and where it entered and what hands were involved. Because it might be in at an angle that a second person standing over your upright body would have to be a contortionist to have helped you pull the trigger.

This brings me to the question of how far into a re-enactment did the investigators actually go? Also, what questions did they try to answer with that re-enactment?

Why were no footprints or human scent trails left that could be found or followed? Why didn't the Lt have any defensive wounds (especially those to guard his life?) Why did he not use his radio in the time it took to cover 100 feet of distance between the 1st shot and the 2nd? Why was his taser or pepper spray not deployed during the alleged struggle? Was he in the car or out on foot for the 20 minutes that he was on location before he radioed in to report the three males?

 

[cady]

This brings me to the question of how far into a re-enactment did the investigators actually go? Also, what questions did they try to answer with that re-enactment?

Why were no footprints or human scent trails left that could be found or followed? Why didn't the Lt have any defensive wounds (especially those to guard his life?) Why did he not use his radio in the time it took to cover 100 feet of distance between the 1st shot and the 2nd? Why was his taser or pepper spray not deployed during the alleged struggle? Was he in the car or out on foot for the 20 minutes that he was on location before he radioed in to report the three males?

Maybe the new "evidence of struggle" came from the re-enactment. JMO

 

[vestigare]

Maybe the new "evidence of struggle" came from the re-enactment. JMO

Possibly, but I think it likely the new evidence came from just regular old Joe walking around, scuffing the ground, maybe some grass stains on his knees and perhaps pulling on his shirt or dropping items like his pepper spray which the Task Force is using as a convenient sign of struggle. All of which could have been easily staged.

His body must not have had any signs because even Montez mustn't have indicated that on the autopsy if Rudd was also not able to see any signs.

 

[Chuz Life]

Maybe the new "evidence of struggle" came from the re-enactment. JMO

Maybe, but I thought they didn't mention the fact that they did a re-enactment until a day or two after they announced that they had any evidence of a struggle. Then, when they finally did announce the re-enactment - they specifically said that it was to explore possible escape routes that the 3 suspects may have taken. (no mention of an actual re-enactment of the encounter to explain the evidence they have and the lack of evidence that they arguably should have had)

One has to wonder how they could explore the differences between an actual struggle and a "staged struggle" that the Lt may have created (in that mysterious 20 minutes) himself.

"Investigators have since returned to the scene to recreate possible escape routes, including hunting trails, Filenko said."

Source: http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/loca...e-Officers-Death-330255781.html#ixzz3o5bGFj2Y
Follow us: @nbcchicago on Twitter | nbcchicago on Facebook

 

[vestigare]

Maybe, but I thought they didn't mention the fact that they did a re-enactment until a day or two after they announced that that determined that there was a struggle. And when they finally did announce the re-enactment - they specifically said that it was to explore possible escape routes.

One has to wonder how they could explore the differences between an actual struggle and a "staged struggle" that the Lt may have created (in that mysterious 20 minutes) himself.

Add this investigation to other investigations involving this group of players and you have the making of a Shakespearean Tragedy.

 

[Cubby]

I wonder why we've heard two different versions of Lt.CG's upcoming/delayed retirement, and why hadn't Lt.CG taken care of the paperwork for his retirement? We've heard that Lt.CG was to retire at the end of the year, but moved his retirement plans up to end of Sept., and we've heard that he was to retire at end of August but was asked to stay on longer, I think to end of Sept. was it? So which is it? IMO, I don't think Lt.CG was looking forward to retiring. Was Lt.CG being pressured to retire? And if so, why?

There is only two options imo. MSM mistakes or whomever provided the information to msm isn't being honest.