IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #5

[Elley Mae]

There's the bits and pieces of what's been disseminated along with the "unconfirmed sources" which specifically is where the 100 foot distance between shell casings information surfaced.

100 feet....that's a really convenient nice round number.. or maybe the "real" distance between shell casings was 82 feet or 68 feet etc.

That aside,imagine a Football field, 30 yards is nothing.Imagine taking a 40 caliber hit in your bullet proof vest and stumbling stunned and in panic mode only 30 yards (100 feet) You trip and fall.As you desperately try to stand up, you see your own gun pointed at the base of your neck, instinctively your hands reach out...

So is 500 feet or was that 50 yards? not 476 feet or 48 yards. jmo idk

 

[Elley Mae]

People give distances inference to what clicks in there head as known distances like a football field, which most people, especially men know is 100 yards, So IMO people say distances in reference to known distances in their mind. jmo idk

 

[cady]

These 9 DNA samples are confusing....I just re-read an article from a while back that stated that 9 DNA specimens were found, but only 3 were good enough for matching purposes and that 1 of the 3 was confirmed to be male. Has this assessment changed, if anyone knows? It was never revealed whether or not those samples came from the area of purported struggle, only that they came from the crime scene (which is rather extensive, IMO). Those samples were supposedly sent off for testing several weeks ago, as I recall. Has there been any statement about the results of those tests? JMO

 

[night train]

People give distances inference to what clicks in there head as known distances like a football field, which most people, especially men know is 100 yards, So IMO people say distances in reference to known distances in their mind. jmo idk

Right,however, what I mean to illustrate is:

1.We don't even know if that information is true or even reasonably close to accurate.

2.If indeed the shell casings were 100 feel apart, so what? If I gained control of someone's gun and shoot them in the Abdomen, I'm not necessarily thinking they're wearing a bullet proof vest, I see them reacting to the impact, maybe stumbling a few feet and I'm coming to the realization that I need to fire another shot.

 

[cady]

JMO To be able to state that there is evidence of a struggle, must mean that there is evidence on the ground or vegetation, or footprints, or DNA on Lt. G's clothing, or dishevelment of the clothing, all with the exception of DNA, photographed at the scene within hours of the event. As little as we know about the autopsy, we do know that it was stated that there were no signs of struggle on his body....no indication of defensive wounds, scrapes bruises, etc. So all of the struggle evidence must be inferred from the scene of the struggle. (Or, his clothing). Why the secrecy? JMO

 

[Elley Mae]

Right,however, what I mean to illustrate is:

1.We don't even know if that information is true or even reasonably close to accurate.

2.If indeed the shell casings were 100 feel apart, so what? If I gained control of someone's gun and shoot them in the Abdomen, I'm not necessarily thinking they're wearing a bullet proof vest, I see them reacting to the impact, maybe stumbling a few feet and I'm coming to the realization that I need to fire another shot.

If the shot to the vest/cell phone is true that would place it IIRC at the position one would place their hand when saying the pledge, to me the two (2) shots are not that far apart. jmo idk Who knows maybe the shot to the vest/cellphone was at an angle and not from straight on, (standing). jmo idk

 

[Japple]

These 9 DNA samples are confusing....I just re-read an article from a while back that stated that 9 DNA specimens were found, but only 3 were good enough for matching purposes and that 1 of the 3 was confirmed to be male. Has this assessment changed, if anyone knows? It was never revealed whether or not those samples came from the area of purported struggle, only that they came from the crime scene (which is rather extensive, IMO). Those samples were supposedly sent off for testing several weeks ago, as I recall. Has there been any statement about the results of those tests? JMO

bbm
I think all 9 are matchable. but only 3 are CODIS quality.

Clips from Q&A:
"Q: Have you taken DNA evidence from the police department. If so, to prove or disprove what?A: DNA has been taken from anybody who has come into proximity to the victim. Including DNA from (police). ... To date, we have taken over 100 comparatives and submitted them to the lab. ... What I can tell you is this, from the scene itself, we have found nine unknown DNA donor samples, with three of those samples being CODIS-certified. ... One of them is confirmed to be that of a male.
(Editor's note: CODIS stands for the Combined DNA Index System. DNA must meet specific requirements to be entered into the system.)
Q: If you have nine DNA samples, but there were three reported to be at the scene ... is it three samples of one, and three from another, or is it nine completely different DNA samples?
A: At this point, three have been identified as completely different and CODIS-acceptable. One of those three is that of a male. The other six samples are not CODIS-acceptable but are identifiable through matching swabs in the lab. When taking these swabs, they're for the purpose of elimination and incrimination. But we have taken them from every police officer involved that was close to the proximity to the crime scene.
Q: Does that mean there were more people who crossed through that area?
A: Not necessarily. That means that the items those samples are taken from could have come in contact with people in proximity to the victim, not necessarily the crime scene. Through the course of the day or the day before. DNA just doesn't disappear overnight unless there is a cleaning process involved or whatever.
Q: And out of these nine samples, how many have matched to the people you have swabbed.
A: None."

bbm.
he seems to be talking about the immediate area of the crime scene or even on the LT himself.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20151001/news/151009954/

 

[Japple]

So if it really was found 100' away, I myself come to the conclusion that it was thrown from near where LTGs body was found. So who would do that and why?

If LTG shot himself, why bother throwing the shell? If it was thought out and staged, what purpose does it serve? Keeping it near the staged struggle makes a lot more sense.

Right,however, what I mean to illustrate is:

1.We don't even know if that information is true or even reasonably close to accurate.

2.If indeed the shell casings were 100 feel apart, so what? If I gained control of someone's gun and shoot them in the Abdomen, I'm not necessarily thinking they're wearing a bullet proof vest, I see them reacting to the impact, maybe stumbling a few feet and I'm coming to the realization that I need to fire another shot.

bbm
I think we're on the same page here. But one of the point's I was trying to make was that if the 1st shot happened at the location of the casing, there would be evidence of a trail of some kind. IF it really was 100' away

 

[bluesneakers]

Right,however, what I mean to illustrate is:

1.We don't even know if that information is true or even reasonably close to accurate.

2.If indeed the shell casings were 100 feel apart, so what? If I gained control of someone's gun and shoot them in the Abdomen, I'm not necessarily thinking they're wearing a bullet proof vest, I see them reacting to the impact, maybe stumbling a few feet and I'm coming to the realization that I need to fire another shot.

Sounds like a completely reasonable scenario. Except then the weird second shot from an angle at the vest, and how long that might take, especially considering the person got Joe's gun (I'm assuming from closer than 50 yards) and then got 50 or 100 yards away to shoot, then got close to him for the second shot.

 

[cady]

bbm
I think we're on the same page here. But one of the point's I was trying to make was that if the 1st shot happened at the location of the casing, there would be evidence of a trail of some kind. IF it really was 100' away

Was that the gun residue trail that the dog followed? JMO

 

[cady]

Codis has strict rules about the quality of samples and the adherence of participating labs to rules for acceptance by FBI lab. In other words, the sample can be a good sample, but mishandled in some way defined by the codis-acceptable rules. JMO

 

[Japple]

Was that the gun residue trail that the dog followed? JMO

IIRC, that trail went 1500'

 

[katydid23]

I have no experience for knowing what standard Police Protocol is, for inventory or otherwise and would never purport to know. With your knowledge of Police Protocol, what do you believe it is, in terms of reviewing inventory? THANKS JMO

I believe that every time a new chief takes over, there would be a full inventory taking place. No one wants to take responsibility for someone else's blunders or misdeeds. There is always going to be a certain amount of leakage/loss/glitches and so it is important for the new chief to know EXACTLY what his inventory is when he takes charge.

If I was the new chief, I would absolutely bring in a 3rd party to count the weapons and inventory the evidence. If someone is stealing drugs from the evidence room, then I don't want them counting up the evidence and filling in the logs.

 

[bluesneakers]

I believe that every time a new chief takes over, there would be a full inventory taking place. No one wants to take responsibility for someone else's blunders or misdeeds. There is always going to be a certain amount of leakage/loss/glitches and so it is important for the new chief to know EXACTLY what his inventory is when he takes charge.

If I was the new chief, I would absolutely bring in a 3rd party to count the weapons and inventory the evidence. If someone is stealing drugs from the evidence room, then I don't want them counting up the evidence and filling in the logs.

How common is it to bring in a 3rd party for inventory? How much does it typically cost? IMO this seems excessive and expensive.

 

[katydid23]

How common is it to bring in a 3rd party for inventory? How much does it typically cost? IMO this seems excessive and expensive.

How often do new police chiefs take over? I don't think it happens that often.

If you were going to buy a jewelry store, and were about to take it over, would you have the old employees count the diamonds? Or would you bring in a 3rd party to tell you what you had in the store?

 

[night train]

JMO To be able to state that there is evidence of a struggle, must mean that there is evidence on the ground or vegetation, or footprints, or DNA on Lt. G's clothing, or dishevelment of the clothing, all with the exception of DNA, photographed at the scene within hours of the event. As little as we know about the autopsy, we do know that it was stated that there were no signs of struggle on his body....no indication of defensive wounds, scrapes bruises, etc. So all of the struggle evidence must be inferred from the scene of the struggle. (Or, his clothing). Why the secrecy? JMO

If I had to bet my life on what happened that day,with the limited information available,I'd be shaking in my shoes.I find it's best for me to mostly work the homicide side of things.Honestly I haven't paid much attention to this outside of Websleuths.Recently I read a few MSM stories and the accompanying comments and was surprised at how overwhelming the suicide and BLM mojo is out there.

At the end of the day I know I used to own a home there,there's several thoughts I'm keeping to myself.Wherever the truth lies,the Mayor and the inner workings of that village are one heck of a wildcard.

 

[cady]

How common is it to bring in a 3rd party for inventory? How much does it typically cost? IMO this seems excessive and expensive.

Good question and also, I believe it was Village of Fox Lake officials, that initiated the independent review of FLPD inventory. JMO If Joe took no part in the Behan/practices internal investigation, which was stated by Task Force reps, then any investigation of Behan inventory was not participated in by Joe. So, when the (possibly) second inventory investigation was initiated by village officials, Joe was asked to help with it. That does not mean actively participate in the investigation other than just answer questions and provide accounting to the independent investigators. At least, that is what it appears to be, to me. JMO

 

[cady]

The last time that the (17-year old) Captain of the Explorers spoke on the phone with Joe was Monday night the 31 of August, where they talked about "inventory for the (Explorers) program". This was some time after Joe had the 90-minute meeting with the Mayor. JMO...............some time that night (before or after) he spoke with the kid, Joe texted the mayor who described the text as "assertive", but the mayor did not return a text, because he expected to (see?) or (talk to?) Joe the next morning. JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

The last time that the (17-year old) Captain of the Explorers spoke on the phone with Joe was Monday night the 31 of August, where they talked about "inventory for the (Explorers) program". This was some time after Joe had the 90-minute meeting with the Mayor. JMO

I wish we knew what Joe's text message to the mayor said, and why he didn't respond.

 

[Cubby]

It seems like the inventory seems to possibly be related to Lt. CG's death. How exactly, IDK, but the timing with the chief resigning, texts, meeting with mayor, all kind of point towards inventory.