IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #5

[tcer114]

Thanks for sharing. A realistic theory. It REALLY begs the questions:

1) Dirty Cop on duty or off?
2) The recently filed search warrant for Fox Lake PD officer with shaded past. Does it pertain? How often are search warrant executed on employed PD officers in the same department as an allegedly murdered officer?
3) Who is badge number XXXX (see scanner thread) Who radioed in 50 seconds after Lt. last radio call stating they ran into the swamp, stating he was at Rollins and the Plant, he never 10-4 back to the dispatch. This was the only time I heard no 10-4 from my time of listening to scanner that I can recall. In addition, this officer dragged on his question, iirc for about 10 seconds. Very slowly asking which direction etc..
4) The dead air shortly there after with background noise (I have enhanced this on garage band, def something there, could be a word but you can hear movement of some form)
5) Water can interfere with GSR testing results, was the LT found in a wet area of the swamp?

I agree with both Night Train and Walker. Although I think there could have been a set up. To anyone out there who hasnt posted yet, make sure your skin is thick enough before you do.

 

[cady]

I'll play.

Not ready to put my cards on the table as a fully formed scenario but I'm hoping that above all,no matter how any of us are leaning,this more than anything else is a search for the truth.I'll take all the help I can get.....

Walker007 and Japple have made some observations that mesh with some of my thinking,this is where I'm running with it.

No set up,no suicide...Joe knew at least one of the 3 once Joe saw him,Joe had to die.

1.One of the male whites was a cop

2.Either the male white or the male black was a drug connection

3.There are cops in the area playing along with people moving drugs

4.All 3 if discovered would have enough to lose to warrant murdering Lt.JG

5.Even if escape was possible,the dirty cop would have been ID'ed by Lt.JG

6.Joe got out flanked somehow and was forced to drop his gun= No Sign of struggle

7.A cop would know how to kill a cop with his own gun leaving little to no evidence

8.The scanner thread radio times can fit

9.Neither Lt.JG or the 3 subjects expected to see each other that morning (again No SetUp)

Then, what on earth was he doing there at that hour of the morning? Why would he be there if he did not expect to see anyone there? I think he wanted to be alone, and was. JMO

 

[bluesneakers]

But they don't suggest otherwise either. They all have to be cleared before they take suicide off the table. IMO

But that could be impossible. What then?

 

[Japple]

But that could be impossible. What then?

Cold case.

 

[cady]

I don't think that a task force determines a MOD, a Coroner/ME does. That does not mean that a task force can't keep looking for evidence of perps, though. They can and they do, it's just that citizens will get angry if a great deal of time and money is spent on a case after a determination of suicide. The MOD can be changed, if there is new evidence of homicide. JMO

 

[Boo Radley]

Please don't take this as an attack. I enjoy the creative discussions and the time that so many have contributed. I am merely playing devils advocate as I respond with some thoughts.

I'll play.

Not ready to put my cards on the table as a fully formed scenario but I'm hoping that above all,no matter how any of us are leaning,this more than anything else is a search for the truth.I'll take all the help I can get.....

Walker007 and Japple have made some observations that mesh with some of my thinking,this is where I'm running with it.

No set up,no suicide...Joe knew at least one of the 3 once Joe saw him,Joe had to die.

1.One of the male whites was a cop

2.Either the male white or the male black was a drug connection

3.There are cops in the area playing along with people moving drugs

4.All 3 if discovered would have enough to lose to warrant murdering Lt.JG

Odd location for this type of meeting. Were they carrying a large amount of drugs/cash? Who does this type of meeting by traveling on foot to a "remote" location that doesn't allow them immediate access to their cars? Typically, exchanges are quickly moved from one vehicle to another, not carried back to a car parked a good distance away. And if they did choose to do this, why did they remain in such a visable location (while acting "suspicious"), that would allow Lt G to see them? How does this fit with Lt G being on foot at scene for 20 minutes? Where were their cars? Would the drugs and cash have left even more of a scent for the dogs to track?

5.Even if escape was possible,the dirty cop would have been ID'ed by Lt.JG

If so, the decision to select this location was a poor one since it allowed Joe to get close enough to ID the dirty cop before any of them saw Joe. They also would have had to "escape" without a trace after shooting Lt G and somehow leave no trackable scent trail or be found on any video recording before of after the incident.

6.Joe got out flanked somehow and was forced to drop his gun= No Sign of struggle

For this to happen, they would have had to run initially, as Joe reported via radio. They would have then had to stop, formulate a plan, split up, and then outflank Joe which seems highly unlikely in their moment of panic. This would have also been a huge gamble because it could only be attempted if Joe disregards typical procedures and immediately pursues them into the woods without waiting for backup. If Joe waited for backup, or proceeded slowly, they would have been hiding in the woods waiting to outflank him while being surrounded by backup units and therefore losing thier short opportunity to escape. On the radio, Joe also didn't portray a sense of urgency that indicated he was going to sprint into the woods without waiting for backup. He actually never requested it, only said ok after the dispatcher asked for a second time if he would like backup units.

7.A cop would know how to kill a cop with his own gun leaving little to no evidence

If this happened, it should have been obvious from the residue tests and other evidence (side note: it is very disappointing that despite the fact that they took a great deal of time to process the evidence while enlisting the assistance of so many agencies, experts, and special crime labs, the gun shot residue tests were reportedly "inconclusive"). It isn't likely that they had gloves so if they took steps to "leave no evidence" it would be clear to LE that the gun was wiped off and would have likely left additional evidence. If he was forced to give up his gun without a struggle, why was the first shot a glancing hit off his vest? Why were the 2 bullet casings so far apart? If they were so concerned that they decided they were going to murder a cop, why only shoot him once in chest? He was found face down and there was no way for them to be sure that the shot was fatal.

8.The scanner thread radio times can fit

9.Neither Lt.JG or the 3 subjects expected to see each other that morning (again No SetUp)

 

[night train]

Then, what on earth was he doing there at that hour of the morning? Why would he be there if he did not expect to see anyone there? I think he wanted to be alone, and was. JMO

Of all the things that may point to a Lt.JG suicide,the time and place do not convince me.I can easily imagine arriving early and parking in an out of the way place in the area to have a bit of time for reflection.I actually do this and can tell you that NOTHING I've unexpectedly stumbled across surprises me any more.

The Village of Fox Lake was/is in the process of doing something with the property and whether justified or not,there were concerns about nefarious activity including recent reports of spray can graffiti tagging which has also been a problem in less secluded area of the town.Lt.G was tasked with monitoring the abandoned cement plant property.It's entirely reasonable to think that he showed up for a brief walk through before continuing on to roll call only 1.8 miles away.

 

[Cubby]

IMO they had nothing to do with this,just a random group that happened to appear on video and have the same vague description.I don't believe Lt.JG ever saw them.

How do you explain his radioing them in, if he didn't see them?

 

[bluesneakers]

How do you explain his radioing them in, if he didn't see them?

Could he have felt he was in danger for some other reason, and made a vague call (suspicious, random group) simply to get backup?

 

[DexterMorgan]

Could he have felt he was in danger for some other reason, and made a vague call (suspicious, random group) simply to get backup?

But he never asked for backup. He was just telling the dispatcher where he could be found just in case. Jmo

 

[bluesneakers]

But he never asked for backup. He was just telling the dispatcher where he could be found just in case. Jmo

According to the transcript dispatch asked him once and he said no, but when dispatch asked a second time he said to go ahead and send somebody.

eta: I see what you mean. He didn't specifically ask. I have no idea if he would expect to be asked.

 

[DexterMorgan]

According to the transcript dispatch asked him once and he said no, but when dispatch asked a second time he said to go ahead and send somebody.

eta: I see what you mean. He didn't specifically ask. I have no idea if he would expect to be asked.

But he never asked as if 3 on 1 was no big deal. I think he said okay because a 3 on 1 would have backup being sent regardless of what LT said.

Btw. The dispatcher should be retrained because they didn't really ask him nothing descriptive about the perps or the supposed activities that were taking place.

 

[cady]

According to the transcript dispatch asked him once and he said no, but when dispatch asked a second time he said to go ahead and send somebody.

eta: I see what you mean. He didn't specifically ask. I have no idea if he would expect to be asked.

yup, but to me it almost sounded like he was relenting.....like OK, if you want to..... He did not sound at all concerned, to me, just another radio response. JMO

 

[Cubby]

But he never asked for backup. He was just telling the dispatcher where he could be found just in case. Jmo

Aside from a lunch break, it normal for a LEO to call dispatch for no other reason than to tell them where they would be?

Good point about his never asking for back up. It did seem as if he only hesitatingly agreed after she asked a second time. I wonder if he expected her to ask a second time. It would've been odd if he said no a second time after such a short interval between calls.


Mostly thinking outloud.

 

[cady]

But he never asked as if 3 on 1 was no big deal. I think he said okay because a 3 on 1 would have backup being sent regardless of what LT said.

Btw. The dispatcher should be retrained because they didn't really ask him nothing descriptive about the perps or the supposed activities that were taking place.

I think it was up to Gliniewicz to describe the nature of his suspicion as well as the best description of the 3 that he could at the time. If he had chosen to wait for back-up he could have given dispatch more information. I think no info other than the sketchy description, because there was no one there to describe. JMO

 

[DexterMorgan]

yup, but to me it almost sounded like he was relenting.....like OK, if you want to..... He did not sound at all concerned, to me, just another radio response. JMO

Agree. Like the clock will now start ticking because backup has to come. It's now or never. Okay. You can send them.

 

[bluesneakers]

But he never asked as if 3 on 1 was no big deal. I think he said okay because a 3 on 1 would have backup being sent regardless of what LT said.

Btw. The dispatcher should be retrained because they didn't really ask him nothing descriptive about the perps or the supposed activities that were taking place.

Yeah, it didn't sound like he thought he was in danger. So he knew the people and felt safe, didn't know them and felt safe, or they weren't there at all. Interesting to think he didn't want back up against three guys who (if that particular version of the story is true) were able to overpower him, steal his weapon and kill him.

I agree with the retraining part! A lot more information could have been gathered.

 

[longlonglake]

I was wondering if LE or investigators ever look at sites like this. To get an idea of what the public is thinking.
Or, I should say, what the thinking public is thinking. There are a lot of goofy videos and such out there. Maybe this is all part of the New World Order kind of thing.

:ufo:

 

[DexterMorgan]

I wonder if the pd told the 3 not to talk about what they witnessed that morning. You would think that they would be telling the world that they are glad they had alibis. Or they wish they hung around to be able to help the LT. Or something.

 

[night train]

IMO they had nothing to do with this,just a random group that happened to appear on video and have the same vague description.I don't believe Lt.JG ever saw them.

How do you explain his radioing them in, if he didn't see them?

they = 3 guys completely unrelated to Lt.G's death that were seen on a filling station's security camera video.They temporarily came under scrutiny right on the heels of the manhunt because they matched a vague description of the subjects Lt.JG described during his initial radio transmission.---> I don't think Lt.saw these same exact guys on his way to the abandoned cement plant

them = 3 guys Lt.G actually did see at the abandoned cement plant,they are completely unrelated to anyone seen on security cam video.
(edit) Their existence is only valid if a homicide actually occurred)