IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #5

[vestigare]

But they don't suggest otherwise either. They all have to be cleared to rule suicide. IMO

No they don't. You may never be able to clear them. He could have tertiary transfer DNA on him. You will never track that person down.

And even if they tracked the person down WITHOUT additional cooberating evidence this means nothing because dna is everywhere and lasts years on objects which can then be transferred to other objects which can be transfered again.

To say you must prove where they come from to prove suicide is illogical.

 

[Japple]

No they don't. You may never be able to clear them. He could have tertiary transfer DNA on him. You will never track that person down.

And even if they tracked the person down WITHOUT additional cooberating evidence this means nothing because dna is everywhere and lasts years on objects which can then be transferred to other objects which can be transfered again.

To say you must prove where they come from to prove suicide is illogical.

You are both missing my point. I'm kind of playing devils advocate here. I'm saying that This is why THEY will always keep it on the table. I happen to agree with them. It's been quite obvious you do not.

Yes, they may never be able to clear all the DNA. And this lets them stick to their guns and not ever rule suicide. Task force or coroner.

 

[Montjoy]

They all have to be cleared before they take suicide off the table. IMO

rsbm

No, they do not. Imagine if every crime were investigated from the perspective of having to clear every potentially innocent person, rather than build a case against the one or more guilty person(s). Solving crimes would be a shambles.

 

[vestigare]

The point is this is not an opinion. This is a legal and scientific standard. There is no opinion of we must clear all dna first. That just is not how MOD is determined in any legal or scientific way. Nor is it logical for any investigative team to use as a standard either.

You are both missing my point. I'm kind of playing devils advocate here. I'm saying that This is why THEY will always keep it on the table. I happen to agree with them. It's been quite obvious you do not.

Yes, they may never be able to clear all the DNA. And this lets them stick to their guns and not ever rule suicide. Task force or coroner.

 

[Montjoy]

You are both missing my point. I'm kind of playing devils advocate here. I'm saying that This is why THEY will always keep it on the table. I happen to agree with them. It's been quite obvious you do not.

Yes, they may never be able to clear all the DNA. And this lets them stick to their guns and not ever rule suicide. Task force or coroner.

Oh, I'm sorry -- are you suggesting that investigators are using the DNA as a red herring? They are using it to promote an otherwise unsubstantiated homicide theory? If so, I would tend to agree with you, and withdraw my previous posts on the DNA.

 

[Japple]

rsbm

No, they do not. Imagine if every crime were investigated from the perspective of having to clear every potentially innocent person, rather than build a case against the one or more guilty person(s). Solving crimes would be a shambles.

I see what you are saying. But this is a unique situation. And if you can't agree with at least that, I don't know what else to say except see my post above.

 

[vestigare]

Oh, I'm sorry -- are you suggesting that investigators are using the DNA as a red herring? They are using it to promote an otherwise unsubstantiated homicide theory? If so, I would tend to agree with you, and withdraw my previous posts on the DNA.

I believe and agree the task force is using all sorts of shady pseudo science and evidence to convince people this is a legitimate murder investigation. They won't get away with it for long because eventually they have to show actual grand jury evidence. The coroner also doesn't legally have to wait for every stone to be overturned before he makes a ruling.

 

[Japple]

The point is this is not an opinion. This is a legal and scientific standard. There is no opinion of we must clear all dna first. That just is not how MOD is determined in any legal or scientific way. Nor is it logical for any investigative team to use as a standard either.

Tell that to the task force.

 

[vestigare]

Tell that to the task force.

The task force knows this. They are hoping to sway public opinion so when they finally let this go they will look as if they had every reason in the world to assume homicide for so long.

This is PR more than anything.

 

[Montjoy]

I see what you are saying. But this is a unique situation. And if you can't agree with at least that, I don't know what else to say except see my post above.

IMO, what you're describing sounds more like a cover-up, and less like a proper investigation. I can't stand by that, myself, even if the central figure is a LEO.

 

[Japple]

The task force knows this. They are hoping to sway public opinion so when they finally let this go they will look as if they had every reason in the world to assume homicide for so long.

This is PR more than anything.

Only time will tell.

 

[Montjoy]

Only time will tell.

Sadly, I think that those involved in the investigation are banking on the fact that time will not tell, and that time will dissuade people from asking uncomfortable questions.

 

[DexterMorgan]

According to LT G; The killers were the 2ws and 1bl. But they were cleared. So unless there was another set of 3 that fit the racial make up then I don't know.

If he followed 3 guys and was killed. Then it would had to have been the 3 guys who did it. But they was cleared. Why.

Well they were cleared because they were long gone from the time LT spotted them. And they have hard evidence to prove it.

So who do we blame now.

 

[night train]

I see at least 2 newer members looking into this thread that have joined since the 1st thread was started, but have 0 posts. Please join in on the conversation. Are you local? Have anything to do with the investigation? Come on in, the waters warm.

I'll play.

Not ready to put my cards on the table as a fully formed scenario but I'm hoping that above all,no matter how any of us are leaning,this more than anything else is a search for the truth.I'll take all the help I can get.....

Walker007 and Japple have made some observations that mesh with some of my thinking,this is where I'm running with it.

No set up,no suicide...Joe knew at least one of the 3 once Joe saw him,Joe had to die.

1.One of the male whites was a cop

2.Either the male white or the male black was a drug connection

3.There are cops in the area playing along with people moving drugs

4.All 3 if discovered would have enough to lose to warrant murdering Lt.JG

5.Even if escape was possible,the dirty cop would have been ID'ed by Lt.JG

6.Joe got out flanked somehow and was forced to drop his gun= No Sign of struggle

7.A cop would know how to kill a cop with his own gun leaving little to no evidence

8.The scanner thread radio times can fit

9.Neither Lt.JG or the 3 subjects expected to see each other that morning (again No SetUp)

 

[night train]

According to LT G; The killers were the 2ws and 1bl. But they were cleared. So unless there was another set of 3 that fit the racial make up then I don't know.

If he followed 3 guys and was killed. Then it would had to have been the 3 guys who did it. But they was cleared. Why.

Well they were cleared because they were long gone from the time LT spotted them. And they have hard evidence to prove it.

So who do we blame now.

IMO they had nothing to do with this,just a random group that happened to appear on video and have the same vague description.I don't believe Lt.JG ever saw them.

 

[Montjoy]

IMO they had nothing to do with this,just a random group that happened to appear on video and have the same vague description.I don't believe Lt.JG ever saw them.

Well, the investigators seemed to have had some idea of who he was attempting to identify...or else they wouldn't have cleared some guys who they were confident to be the trio CG identified. (Otherwise, I would guess that we would have heard of at least a couple of other salt and pepper trios who were vindicated.)

Myself, I think that he either saw three buddies walking together near where he killed himself, or he thought that it would be plausible to investigators that three people, one of whom was black, overpowered and killed him, when he actually killed himself.

 

[bluesneakers]

Well, the investigators seemed to have had some idea of who he was attempting to identify...or else they wouldn't have cleared some guys who they were confident to be the trio CG identified. (Otherwise, I would guess that we would have heard of at least a couple of other salt and pepper trios who were vindicated.)

Myself, I think that he either saw three buddies walking together near where he killed himself, or he thought that it would be plausible to investigators that three people, one of whom was black, overpowered and killed him, when he actually killed himself.

I hope it was the latter. I would hate to think one of the last things he did was attempt to implicate three innocent people in a murder. It could have gone much worse for them.

JMO.


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[Walker007]

I'll play.

Not ready to put my cards on the table as a fully formed scenario but I'm hoping that above all,no matter how any of us are leaning,this more than anything else is a search for the truth.I'll take all the help I can get.....

Walker007 and Japple have made some observations that mesh with some of my thinking,this is where I'm running with it.

No set up,no suicide...Joe knew at least one of the 3 once Joe saw him,Joe had to die.

1.One of the male whites was a cop

2.Either the male white or the male black was a drug connection

3.There are cops in the area playing along with people moving drugs

4.All 3 if discovered would have enough to lose to warrant murdering Lt.JG

5.Even if escape was possible,the dirty cop would have been ID'ed by Lt.JG

6.Joe got out flanked somehow and was forced to drop his gun= No Sign of struggle

7.A cop would know how to kill a cop with his own gun leaving little to no evidence

8.The scanner thread radio times can fit

9.Neither Lt.JG or the 3 subjects expected to see each other that morning (again No SetUp)

Thanks for sharing. A realistic theory. It REALLY begs the questions:

1) Dirty Cop on duty or off?
2) The recently filed search warrant for Fox Lake PD officer with shaded past. Does it pertain? How often are search warrant executed on employed PD officers in the same department as an allegedly murdered officer?
3) Who is badge number XXXX (see scanner thread) Who radioed in 50 seconds after Lt. last radio call stating they ran into the swamp, stating he was at Rollins and the Plant, he never 10-4 back to the dispatch. This was the only time I heard no 10-4 from my time of listening to scanner that I can recall. In addition, this officer dragged on his question, iirc for about 10 seconds. Very slowly asking which direction etc..
4) The dead air shortly there after with background noise (I have enhanced this on garage band, def something there, could be a word but you can hear movement of some form)
5) Water can interfere with GSR testing results, was the LT found in a wet area of the swamp?

 

[bluesneakers]

Thanks for sharing. A realistic theory. It REALLY begs the questions:

1) Dirty Cop on duty or off?
2) The recently filed search warrant for Fox Lake PD officer with shaded past. Does it pertain? How often are search warrant executed on employed PD officers in the same department as an allegedly murdered officer?
3) Who is badge number XXXX (see scanner thread) Who radioed in 50 seconds after Lt. last radio call stating they ran into the swamp, stating he was at Rollins and the Plant, he never 10-4 back to the dispatch. This was the only time I heard no 10-4 from my time of listening to scanner that I can recall. In addition, this officer dragged on his question, iirc for about 10 seconds. Very slowly asking which direction etc..
4) The dead air shortly there after with background noise (I have enhanced this on garage band, def something there, could be a word but you can hear movement of some form)
5) Water can interfere with GSR testing results, was the LT found in a wet area of the swamp?

And wouldn't he have recognized the cop? I think he would and if he had it wouldn't have looked suspicious to him.


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[Elley Mae]

It would being interesting to see the ones that were swabbed for dna. jmo idk Or did I miss that?