IL IL - Paul Fronczak, newborn, Chicago, 1964 + UID Male, 1, NJ, 1965

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Even though I am 1000 miles North in Manitoba Canada I remember the the original hospital kidnapping like it happened yesterday ........ I was 12 years old at the time and it was all over our news for many months and many years .... every parent talked about it continuously , and they , along with hospitals implemented better security measures.

I even recall news stories back then expressing "some doubt" that the abandoned child found in New Jersey was the right one .

Thank you to everyone here who have contributed to this thread .... I did not even know it existed until 3 weeks ago .... and like some of you I spent a lot of hours trying to learn more about the Fountain family and why Kevin had the last name of Baty .

In my opinion it is the FBI who have the duty to sort this out ..... I hope they do ..... even though it may reveal some sensitive family issues it remains an unsolved kidnapping .... thanks
 
Hi Webslueths,
I’m trying to understand why my post was deleted for the violation of “sleuthing/doxing family members”.
I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just confused. As I have read through this thread all of the family members names have been mentioned. I posted the actual birth announcement of his granddaughter because it is a public newspaper post and listed the maternal great grandparents which I believed may be Valuable information in this discussion. Was the violation because I posted the actual birth announcement? Should I have only listed the information I found in the announcement? Respectfully asking for clarification.
 
Plantega - I read the post yesterday and thought it was OK .... and like you said , nearly everyone has already been named in all the complicated family connections.
 
Has anyone found an obituary for the "real Paul's" mother? Is it possible she is still alive?
 
Plantega said:
Hi Webslueths,
I’m trying to understand why my post was deleted for the violation of “sleuthing/doxing family members”.
I’m not trying to be argumentative, I’m just confused. As I have read through this thread all of the family members names have been mentioned. I posted the actual birth announcement of his granddaughter because it is a public newspaper post and listed the maternal great grandparents which I believed may be Valuable information in this discussion. Was the violation because I posted the actual birth announcement? Should I have only listed the information I found in the announcement? Respectfully asking for clarification.
Click to expand...

Did it show the baby's name and photo? If so, that would clearly be a privacy violation. Also any information posted as fact has to be backed up by a link to law enforcement or main stream media articles. A mere birth announcement wouldn't meet that criteria. These are my assumptions. It's interesting sleuthing though.
 
ChatteringBirds said:
Did it show the baby's name and photo? If so, that would clearly be a privacy violation. Also any information posted as fact has to be backed up by a link to law enforcement or main stream media articles. A mere birth announcement wouldn't meet that criteria. These are my assumptions. It's interesting sleuthing though.
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Thank you that explains a lot. I had to “create an account “ with the Cadillac paper in order to read the article. I guess I thought a screen shot of the article was easier for others to see, rather than a link But, it’s a fair enough rule. I understand better. Thank you.
 
Hails said:
Has anyone found an obituary for the "real Paul's" mother? Is it possible she is still alive?
Click to expand...
Hails said:
Has anyone found an obituary for the "real Paul's" mother? Is it possible she is still alive?
Click to expand...
I don’t think we know for sure what his alleged mothers name is, But rumor has it that she was married several times so there is no telling what her name was at death. Assuming she is actually dead.
 
I'm so confused, where did the name AB come from? The Mom LF passed away, and her parents are on findagrave. I don't see anyone with that name related to her. Could LF had been the kidnapper? From what I can see KB was her only child.
 
Queena said:
I'm so confused, where did the name AB come from? The Mom LF passed away, and her parents are on findagrave. I don't see anyone with that name related to her. Could LF had been the kidnapper? From what I can see KB was her only child.
Click to expand...
To the best of my knowledge there has not been any verifications on the mother/possible kidnapper. I have seen comments of people saying AB is the actual kidnapper but nothing backing that up. LF was possibly still alive and living in a nursing home in 2018 when KB was discovered. The rumor that I keep reading is that AB was the kidnapper and had been married several times at that point along with having abandoned other children to their biological fathers or relatives. She kidnapped the Fronczak baby to keep a husband from leaving her. But he must have eventually left her. At some point KB ended up living with the “F”’s who KB refers to as his “father” but that could possibly be because he was left with him by AB at a young age. I haven’t seen anyone suggesting that LF was his mother/kidnapper. But KB’s children have referred to her as being dead. So it could be LF. I never found anything suggested LF was considered his mother. Where did you get the information that KB was her only son?
 
Plantega said:
To the best of my knowledge there has not been any verifications on the mother/possible kidnapper. I have seen comments of people saying AB is the actual kidnapper but nothing backing that up. LF was possibly still alive and living in a nursing home in 2018 when KB was discovered. The rumor that I keep reading is that AB was the kidnapper and had been married several times at that point along with having abandoned other children to their biological fathers or relatives. She kidnapped the Fronczak baby to keep a husband from leaving her. But he must have eventually left her. At some point KB ended up living with the “F”’s who KB refers to as his “father” but that could possibly be because he was left with him by AB at a young age. I haven’t seen anyone suggesting that LF was his mother/kidnapper. But KB’s children have referred to her as being dead. So it could be LF. I never found anything suggested LF was considered his mother. Where did you get the information that KB was her only son?
Click to expand...
There's a family tree built on a genalogy site. I then researched everything and only found LF to have had one daughter and one son, KB. Her (LF) and her mother were both married several times, but there's no way LF's mom could have tried to pass off a biological child when KB/PF was born. LF was in her 40's... I haven't searched much on her husband's family, so AB could've been his mom. LF passed away in 2008 I think. She wasn't listed on his obituary. Then again, it didn't list much family at all.
 
LF’s obit was published in 2008. I believe Cadillac News virtual archive goes back only to 2009 or 2010. She is listed in the SSDI, SSACI, and US Obit Collection. AB, I believe is not “Aurora”, but “Audra” Baty. A Michigan marriage record and deed search in Wexford county shows a Donald Ross Baty and Audra Margaret Arends Baty owned property in the area before relocating to Georgia. They had six bio children before divorcing. They both continued to reside in Georgia until their death. At this time, 3-4 children survive. They appear to be a very close and loving family. Donald ( Donald Ross Baty (1916-1989) - Find A Grave... ) is buried beside his second wife, Dollena. Neither obit or news archive I have located on any family members gives any mention or reference to Kevin Baty. Audra ( Audra M. Arends Baty (1917-1999) - Find A Grave... ) is buried with the Arends family. I have been unable to find her obit. No news archive for her family members gives any mention or reference to Kevin Baty.

I am not sure of the connection with AB and LF. I have yet to find it. Also intrigued by the closeness of AB family in contrast to LF family. A Michigan marriage record shows LF married RF in 1975. Long after the birth of KB. Both LF and RF had children from previous marriages.

Obviously, Kevin’s daughters were close to him, but seems a bit pale in contrast to their relationship with their mother. As I don’t know the family, it may intentionally appear that way to keep darkness from coming into light.
 
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Queena said:
I'm so confused, where did the name AB come from? The Mom LF passed away, and her parents are on findagrave. I don't see anyone with that name related to her. Could LF had been the kidnapper? From what I can see KB was her only child.
Click to expand...
I don’t know where AB came from, I believe it is traced back to a post from David Fronczak. It appears as if LF had a strained or estranged relationship with her other two children. Both children are living, share the same father and were referenced in their fathers obit. LF’s parents are on *advertiser censored*.
 
Plantega said:
I don’t think we know for sure what his alleged mothers name is, But rumor has it that she was married several times so there is no telling what her name was at death. Assuming she is actually dead.
Click to expand...
LF is deceased and marriage records confirm multiple marriages. She was mentioned in the obit of RF’s father approximately 2 years after her death. Her death is recorded As LF in SSDI, SSACI, and Obit Collection Index. Her relationship as the mother of KB is further confirmed in new archives of birth announcements Identifying her as paternal grandparent placed by KB’s children. KB’s obit stated his parents were LF and RF. Based on marriage of LF and RF in 1975, we know RF was his stepfather. While not legally, news archives, property records, etc confirm KB identified RF as his father. News archives and property records show RF identified and treated KB as his own. This is not uncommon of blended families.

Your assumption makes an interesting point. Unless some one comes forward with first hand knowledge, we may never know for certain who his alleged mother is. All we can conclude is for all intents and purposes, he identified LF as his mother. She appears to have been more active and involved in the life of him and his daughters than her other known bio children and their families. I am confident the knowledge and truth lies within KB’s assumed and known immediate family.
 
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Plantega said:
To the best of my knowledge there has not been any verifications on the mother/possible kidnapper. I have seen comments of people saying AB is the actual kidnapper but nothing backing that up. LF was possibly still alive and living in a nursing home in 2018 when KB was discovered. The rumor that I keep reading is that AB was the kidnapper and had been married several times at that point along with having abandoned other children to their biological fathers or relatives. She kidnapped the Fronczak baby to keep a husband from leaving her. But he must have eventually left her. At some point KB ended up living with the “F”’s who KB refers to as his “father” but that could possibly be because he was left with him by AB at a young age. I haven’t seen anyone suggesting that LF was his mother/kidnapper. But KB’s children have referred to her as being dead. So it could be LF. I never found anything suggested LF was considered his mother. Where did you get the information that KB was her only son?
Click to expand...
I only see AB having been married once. AB and DB sold property in Michigan and relocated to Georgia approx 1969. They obviously divorced at some point as DB remarried and is buried beside his second wife. It don’t see any suggestion or record that AB remarried and she is buried with her family. Knowing all dates of would definitely give more insight to this theory. As well as knowing what the AB and LF connection is. I would assume it is more than just “friends”.

The “Hicks” babies seem to have had many connections unknown to the naked eye. I can’t help but think something similar is with this situation.
 
gladyseeya said:
LF’s obit was published in 2008. I believe Cadillac News virtual archive goes back only to 2009 or 2010. She is listed in the SSDI, SSACI, and US Obit Collection. AB, I believe is not “Aurora”, but “Audra” Baty. A Michigan marriage record and deed search in Wexford county shows a Donald Ross Baty and Audra Margaret Arends Baty owned property in the area before relocating to Georgia. They had six bio children before divorcing. They both continued to reside in Georgia until their death. At this time, 3-4 children survive. They appear to be a very close and loving family. Donald ( Donald Ross Baty (1916-1989) - Find A Grave... ) is buried beside his second wife, Dollena. Neither obit or news archive I have located on any family members gives any mention or reference to Kevin Baty. Audra ( Audra M. Arends Baty (1917-1999) - Find A Grave... ) is buried with the Arends family. I have been unable to find her obit. No news archive for her family members gives any mention or reference to Kevin Baty.

I am not sure of the connection with AB and LF. I have yet to find it. Also intrigued by the closeness of AB family in contrast to LF family. A Michigan marriage record shows LF married RF in 1975. Long after the birth of KB. Both LF and RF had children from previous marriages.

Obviously, Kevin’s daughters were close to him, but seems a bit pale in contrast to their relationship with their mother. As I don’t know the family, it may intentionally appear that way to keep darkness from coming into light.
Click to expand...

gladyseeya said:
LF is deceased and marriage records confirm multiple marriages. She was mentioned in the obit of RF’s father approximately 2 years after her death. Her death is recorded As LF in SSDI, SSACI, and Obit Collection Index. Her relationship as the mother of KB is further confirmed in new archives of birth announcements Identifying her as paternal grandparent placed by KB’s children. KB’s obit stated his parents were LF and RF. Based on marriage of LF and RF in 1975, we know RF was his stepfather. While not legally, news archives, property records, etc confirm KB identified RF as his father. News archives and property records show RF identified and treated KB as his own. This is not uncommon of blended families.

Your assumption makes an interesting point. Unless some one comes forward with first hand knowledge, we may never know for certain who his alleged mother is. All we can conclude is for all intents and purposes, he identified LF as his mother. She appears to have been more active and involved in the life of him and his daughters than her other known bio children and their families. I am confident the knowledge and truth lies within KB’s assumed and known immediate family.
Click to expand...

gladyseeya said:
LF had two bio children from first marriage.
Click to expand...

Thank you! You're good!
 
ISHI uploaded a video on 9/14/20 on YouTube with Paul/jack and CeCee.
Dora did get to talk on the phone to the “real” Paul but they never met in person. One of the real Paul’s family members contacted Paul/Jack on Facebook and they did a dna test. They are in the process of making a movie right now.
 
I think that the International Symposium on Human Identification would be an allowed source to post, here is the link to the YouTube @Plantega mentions above.

Paul shares personal information I never had heard before, so thanks for sharing this.

ISHI 31 Keynote Address: Resolving a Case of Unknown Identity Through Genetic Genealogy
 
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WOW .... that was a great video , thank you , ...... this case has so many twists and turns and its nice to see Paul (Jack) get some results.
 
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