GUILTY IL - Riley Fox, 3, Wilmington, 6 June 2004

[Maddy's Mom]

BTW - I have mellowed quite a bit since we last exchanged messages - probably becoming a grandfather is part of it.

Congrats, Grandpa!!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Thanks for the quick response. Even though you don't do criminal work, I agree with your understanding on this.

BTW - I have mellowed quite a bit since we last exchanged messages - probably becoming a grandfather is part of it. You can call me darlin' or the other terms you use any time. I was wrong to pick on you about it before and I apologize.

"You can call me darlin, darlin" -- Is that a Willie Nelson song title?

I'm sorry. Was that you who took offense?? :blowkiss:

I didn't know. We get so many people here - and, as you know, I use it for everyone at one time or another, but never in anger. I find another name to use then.

 

[genecam]

I was speaking of the police officers on THIS case.

TW - Specifically, by name, these are the "police officers" on THIS case whose behavior I have criticized:

DETECTIVE EDWARD HAYES, DETECTIVE MICHAEL GUILFOYLE, DETECTIVE SCOTT SWEARENGEN, DETECTIVE JOHN RUETTIGER, DETECTIVE BRAD WACHTL, and DETECTIVE DAVID DOBROWSKI, all from Will County Sheriff Paul Kaupus's office.

I hope these are not the guys whose actions you are defending. They don't have a caring bone in their collective bodies. They have needlessly inflicted a great deal of pain on a lot of people. There was no probable cause for their actions. They have shown no remorse, nor issued any apology for their repugnant behavior. They are a bunch of lazy thugs who do not belong in law enforcement.

These guys are totally devoid of character and morals -- just pure evil. Their moral compasses were discarded long ago and are probably lying in a ditch alongside Interstate 55 somewhere between Joliet and St. Louis.

Of course they are working on new cases. They desperately want this one to fade away so everyone will forget about it when they vote in November. But guess what -- the two-year anniversary of Riley's death fell right in the middle of the election campaign, and the local TV and radio stations wanted to interview Kevin and Melissa. And without having to be nasty or strident, they were subtly able to convey to everyone that no progress has been made towards capturing the killer in the entire two years, no one seems to be taking this case seriously, and Kaupus and the six thugs are "living in denial" still concentrating on CYA by trying to convince people that Kevin is still involved somehow.

I know the Foxes want to see Kaupus lose the election. They really took advantage of the opportunity to get their message across in a most effective way.

 

[TangledWishes]

TW - Specifically, by name, these are the "police officers" on THIS case whose behavior I have criticized:

DETECTIVE EDWARD HAYES, DETECTIVE MICHAEL GUILFOYLE, DETECTIVE SCOTT SWEARENGEN, DETECTIVE JOHN RUETTIGER, DETECTIVE BRAD WACHTL, and DETECTIVE DAVID DOBROWSKI, all from Will County Sheriff Paul Kaupus's office.

I hope these are not the guys whose actions you are defending. They don't have a caring bone in their collective bodies. They have needlessly inflicted a great deal of pain on a lot of people. There was no probable cause for their actions. They have shown no remorse, nor issued any apology for their repugnant behavior. They are a bunch of lazy thugs who do not belong in law enforcement.

These guys are totally devoid of character and morals -- just pure evil. Their moral compasses were discarded long ago and are probably lying in a ditch alongside Interstate 55 somewhere between Joliet and St. Louis.

Of course they are working on new cases. They desperately want this one to fade away so everyone will forget about it when they vote in November. But guess what -- the two-year anniversary of Riley's death fell right in the middle of the election campaign, and the local TV and radio stations wanted to interview Kevin and Melissa. And without having to be nasty or strident, they were subtly able to convey to everyone that no progress has been made towards capturing the killer in the entire two years, no one seems to be taking this case seriously, and Kaupus and the six thugs are "living in denial" still concentrating on CYA by trying to convince people that Kevin is still involved somehow.

I know the Foxes want to see Kaupus lose the election. They really took advantage of the opportunity to get their message across in a most effective way.

No, I am definately not defending those that you listed. But they aren't the only ones working on the case - if those in the past are even working on the case. I am defending others on this case, which unfortunately I cannot at this time divulge. Although it would be public record to anybody who would call the department.

There is so much that I would love to say, but cannot. All I can say is that there are many people who continue to spend endless hours to find Riley's killer. The media is unaware of much of it and so the public is unaware of much of it. I would be frustrated if I were Melissa and Kevin, but they also know more than what is being publicized. We live in a world where what the media prints or doesn't print is considered gospel. It isn't. I know of cases where the LE fed the media lies to throw the killer off. No, it isn't just a CSI show, it is real. I just wish people wouldn't always take things at face value. I understand that until Riley's killer is arrested and named that there will be a public outcry. Cry out all you want! Scare the bejesus out of the sicko that did this! But my point was don't assume that all LE on this case are scum or uncaring.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

No, I am definately not defending those that you listed. But they aren't the only ones working on the case - if those in the past are even working on the case. I am defending others on this case, which unfortunately I cannot at this time divulge. Although it would be public record to anybody who would call the department.

There is so much that I would love to say, but cannot. All I can say is that there are many people who continue to spend endless hours to find Riley's killer. The media is unaware of much of it and so the public is unaware of much of it. I would be frustrated if I were Melissa and Kevin, but they also know more than what is being publicized. We live in a world where what the media prints or doesn't print is considered gospel. It isn't. I know of cases where the LE fed the media lies to throw the killer off. No, it isn't just a CSI show, it is real. I just wish people wouldn't always take things at face value. I understand that until Riley's killer is arrested and named that there will be a public outcry. Cry out all you want! Scare the bejesus out of the sicko that did this! But my point was don't assume that all LE on this case are scum or uncaring.

I tend to agree with you. Let's remember that most of these guys live in that community as well, and most of them have children. If there is a baby murderer around, they want him found and jailed.

 

[genecam]

No, I am definately not defending those that you listed. But they aren't the only ones working on the case - if those in the past are even working on the case. I am defending others on this case, which unfortunately I cannot at this time divulge. Although it would be public record to anybody who would call the department.

There is so much that I would love to say, but cannot. All I can say is that there are many people who continue to spend endless hours to find Riley's killer. The media is unaware of much of it and so the public is unaware of much of it. I would be frustrated if I were Melissa and Kevin, but they also know more than what is being publicized. We live in a world where what the media prints or doesn't print is considered gospel. It isn't. I know of cases where the LE fed the media lies to throw the killer off. No, it isn't just a CSI show, it is real. I just wish people wouldn't always take things at face value. I understand that until Riley's killer is arrested and named that there will be a public outcry. Cry out all you want! Scare the bejesus out of the sicko that did this! But my point was don't assume that all LE on this case are scum or uncaring.

TW - Glad to hear you are not defending the conduct of the original 6 detectives. Their conduct is totally indefensible. According to Glasgow, right after Kevin was released, they were all off the case and a new "fresh" team was formed. However, shortly thereafter, Chad received a call from Hayes, the worst of the thugs, requesting information from Zellner's investigators. That's when Melissa publicly requested the Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan take charge of the investigation because Will County had a huge conflict of interest because of the civil suit. If you recall, Madigan said she couldn't do that unilaterally. Will County had to request it, and Glasgow said that, with the new team there was no conflict of interest. And Kaupus gave some lame excuse that Hayes was "only getting the paper work in order for the new team." I recall Glasgow practically ordering Kaupus to get Hayes totally out of the picture, and looking clearly disgusted with Kaupus.

I questioned Glasgow's statement then, and I still question it now. The new team was comprised of a chief investigator and two others from the State's Attorney's Office, and two detectives from the Sheriff's Office. There are only 13 people in the Sheriff's detective unit, including a Lieutenant, a Sergeant and a support person. That leaves 10 detectives, including the six who interrogated Kevin. That's a small office. They all know each other and work in close proximity to each other. Many of them may even be friends and socialize together. I do not see how the two Sheriff's detectives on the new team can be objective or effective. I cannot see them doing anything to make any of their buddies among the original six look any worse than they do now, or anything to jeopardize the defendants' positions with regard to the civil suit. In fact, with regard to the civil suit, I think the objectivity and effectiveness of the entire new team is irrevocably compromised. I recall Glasgow said last week after the judge refused to dismiss the suit that "we will defend this case vigorously." There is a huge conflict of interest here that is impossible to overcome. Glasgow should turn this case over to the state.

I know there is a lot of information that is not public knowledge. I am sure Kevin and Melissa know much of it. Most likely because most of it came from Zellner's investigators that the Fox family has paid for entirely, and who seem to be the only conscientious investigators on this case who have come up with any viable leads at all.

I also think that Kevin and Melissa have no confidence in Will County's "fresh and new" investigator team. While they didn't say so outright, that message came through loud and clear in their press interviews earlier this week. Statements like: ". . .we're back on square one. . .", ". . .no one seems to be taking this seriously. . ." , ". . .you'd have to be blind to not be able to see the conflict of interest here because of the civil suit. . .", ". . .too many people are still living in denial, c'mon it's obvious it wasn't Kevin. . ."

These statements, sprinkled throughout the interviews, do not indicate much confidence in the Will County investigative team. In fact, it sounds like they were trying to emphasize that.

I am not saying the new team members are bad people. In fact, they may even be caring. However, in this case, I think their priorities are first to protect their buddies, the original six detectives, second to not let Will County's ability to defend against the civil suit erode any further, and, maybe, third to try and find Riley's murderer.

You also seem to have a lot of knowledge about information that has not been made public. How were you able to acquire it?

To quote (somewhat) one of our fellow posters: everyone's entitled to an opinion, this one's mine.

 

[Maddy's Mom]

You also seem to have a lot of knowledge about information that has not been made public. How were you able to acquire it?

Yes, TW, how is the psychic investigation going? Have you been able to come up with any answers?

 

[TangledWishes]

Yes, TW, how is the psychic investigation going? Have you been able to come up with any answers?

With all due respect, anything I have to say is confidential in nature and not to be posted all over a public forum. But thanks for asking.

 

[genecam]

With all due respect, anything I have to say is confidential in nature and not to be posted all over a public forum. But thanks for asking.

TW - I remember that last year some posters discussed bringing in a psychic, but I guess I didn't make the connection that it was you.

Since you have no information about Riley's murderer, how about answering this question: Who is going to win the Sheriff's election this November - Sheriff Kaupus, or his opponent Rich Girot? I am really curious since, if Girot wins, there is a good chance that there will be a very welcome and necessary complete housecleaning in the Sheriff's office.

 

[TangledWishes]

TW - I remember that last year some posters discussed bringing in a psychic, but I guess I didn't make the connection that it was you.

Since you have no information about Riley's murderer, how about answering this question: Who is going to win the Sheriff's election this November - Sheriff Kaupus, or his opponent Rich Girot? I am really curious since, if Girot wins, there is a good chance that there will be a very welcome and necessary complete housecleaning in the Sheriff's office.

Actually, I don't believe I ever mentioned bringing a psychic in...plus I am not a psychic

Hmmmm...let me look into my crystal ball. Joking. I am rooting for Girot.

 

[halycon]

Here's another link on Riley's case. How sad.

Yet again, why would the DAD confess? Not in a million would I do that..... ever.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/top/4_1_JO06_FOX_S1.htm

Yes, blueclouds. It's terribly sad. So many people are in denial on this case, but you have to wonder what Melissa and Chad must think in their private moments.

The important point made in that article is this:

Barry said no one has been officially cleared of the crime.

 

[genecam]

Barry said no one has been officially cleared of the crime.

And as of now no one is officially charged with the crime.

And Barry is an ignorant buffoon, just like Kaupus and the 6 thugs, with zero credibility and they will all be out of a job in about 7 months.

 

[TangledWishes]

Yes, blueclouds. It's terribly sad. So many people are in denial on this case, but you have to wonder what Melissa and Chad must think in their private moments.

The important point made in that article is this:

Barry said no one has been officially cleared of the crime.

Melissa and Chad? Chad is Melissa's brother. You mean Kevin?

 

[Maddy's Mom]

Melissa and Chad? Chad is Melissa's brother. You mean Kevin?

No, haly means Chad. Halycon is trying to imply that Chad and Melissa believe Kevin is the murderer. As IF Melissa would have another child with and continue to live with the person who took her baby away. Keep dreaming Haly, no one is buying it.

 

[genecam]

No, haly means Chad. Halycon is trying to imply that Chad and Melissa believe Kevin is the murderer. As IF Melissa would have another child with and continue to live with the person who took her baby away. Keep dreaming Haly, no one is buying it.

In my final analysis, I can "buy" two theories about this case:

1. The one I hit on the most - LE incompetence, laziness, stupidity and dishonesty, all cited in the civil suit alleging the conspiracy orchestrated by Tomczak and Kaupus and executed by the detectives, taken at face value in and of itself.

2. A much more deeply disturbing scenario - probing beneath theory number one and trying to conclude a reason for the LE behavior in theory number one - I can only come to one conclusion - that being that LE knows who the killer is and that the killer is in some way connected to Will County LE - sibling, child or other relative, friend, relative of a friend, big time contributor to Will County Republicans - someone with enough clout, influence and leverage to keep LE from testing the DNA, and to push them into framing Kevin.

I know this sounds like one of those crackpot conspiracy theories, but so many things that have happend in this case defy any other explanation. There are people in this world who do these kinds of things.

 

[halycon]

This reminds me of a case from years ago where a father wiped out his entire family. You can drive by the cemetery and see the headstones all lined up. I won't say the name of the case, or even confirm it, but it's a famous case in legal and law enforcement circles. I will add details not known to the public. The similarities to the Kevin Fox case are staggering.

The father was arrested and spent a good deal of time in prison, but was released on a technicality. As with Riley's case, DNA was artifact only and had no meaning in the case.

A publicity-seeking attorney got hold of the defendant's case and saw it as a fast track for a book or movie deal. A civil suit was filed and the father became the darling of media circles, making TV appearances and being feted at parties as a "wrongfully imprisoned individual and victim of a vengeful justice system." A screenplay was written and meetings were taken with Hollywood and New York producers. Book proposals were circulated to make the attorney the hero on a white horse.

Meanwhile, law enforcement knew they had had the right guy all along. They rallied the best experts in homicide cases to create a foolproof counterargument. This took years before it was heard in civil court.

By the time the case came up in court, the defendant's guilty conscience had taken over. He was alcoholic, sickly and quite nutty. Even though there was now a solid case against him, there was the thought that rearresting him would be akin to beating a dead horse. Both the criminal investigation and civil case petered out, and the guy lived out the rest of his life a pauper.

Perhaps the best part of the story is that the lawyer who had pumped up this bogus case was seen as the scam artist s/he was. No book, no movie, and no more A-list parties! This attorney ended up spending far more money on promoting this case than was ever made back. So I guess that's a happy ending.

Any friend of Zellner should remind her of this case. She's probably going to see history repeat itself.

Any friend of Melissa should remind her not to spend the money she hasn't made yet.

Any friend of Kevin should remind him there's no statute of limitations on homicide. But then, I'm sure he thinks of that daily.

 

[genecam]

Sounds like a cut and paste of the Jeffrey MacDonald and Sam Shepherd (aka "The Fugitive") cases, plus some fiction thrown in. And not a very good one at that. Both of those cases were long before DNA science was perfected. Neither of these cases or the fiction thrown in for added flavor bear any resemblance at all to the Riley Fox case. Jeffrey MacDonald was eventually retried and is still in prison. Sam Shepherd was exonerated and died in his 50s after a turn at pro wrestling. MacDonald and Shepherd were both doctors.

And of course you're not naming names. You never do. Makes one wonder if there are any names. And, as for knowing so-called "facts not available to the public", how do we know these are "facts" and not just "ar-tee-facts."

Artifact art' i fact = relic, objet d'art, work of art. Some of them are in the form of crocks. In the Chicago area most of those are in the Field Museum or the University of Chicago Oriental Institute. Since you love artifacts so much, you ought to visit those places. Both places are very interesting and offer a great opportunity for cultural enlightenment.

I am still leaning towards the "LE are idiots" theory. But I can't completely discount the "LE Coverup" theory.

 

[halycon]

There's proof that a Google U education isn't worth the tuition.

The case I described is real and has nothing to do with those you cited.

 

[genecam]

There's proof that a Google U education isn't worth the tuition.

The case I described is real and has nothing to do with those you cited.

I didn't have to google those cases. I knew about them, from both the news and TV movies made about both of them.

Name the case and provide convincing proof that your "facts not known to the public" are facts and not fiction, or maybe just artifact (since you seem obsessed with that word). Otherwise it is just fiction. Also, what you describe is not similar to the Fox case in any way shape or form.

There is no reason to withhold the name of this case. Sounds like all the parties are dead and death is the surest way to end a prosecution.

 

[Maddy's Mom]

There is a rather lengthy article chronicaling Riley's story in this month's Chicago magazine. It affirms what we already know and also offers additional insight into Kevin and Melissa's thoughts and feelings. I found it extremely interesting. The reporter even got Pat Berry to admit that Kevin should have been released when the DNA cleared him. Of course, most of the others who were contacted for comment refused because if the pending lawsuit.Those in the area can pick it up at Walgreen's.
Genecam- beware because it will leave you even more angry at the detectives in this case than before.