GUILTY IL - Riley Fox, 3, Wilmington, 6 June 2004

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halycon said:
Kevin Fox has not been cleared. The DNA is meaningless. Investigation is continuing but that doesn't mean Kevin won't wind up back in the pokey, this time for good.


MANY of us thought Kevin was guilty as sin in the begining... but DNA does not lie.

DNA was found on little Riley - DNA that did not belong to her father. Instead of wasting your enrgery on still trying to convict him, you should put that energy to a more worthy cause.

I will never stop praying for justice for Riley.
 
The DNA is artifact. It's meaningless. I can't be more clear about this.

Kevin is still the chief suspect.
 
halycon said:
The DNA is artifact. It's meaningless. I can't be more clear about this.

Kevin is still the chief suspect.


You are incorrect and you're also wasting your time.
 
If you can show me some evidence that Kevin is cleared, I will be more than happy to consider your opinion. Until then, I'm afraid you are only wishful thinking. But enjoy yourself. Me, I prefer dealing in facts.
 
halycon said:
If you can show me some evidence that Kevin is cleared, I will be more than happy to consider your opinion. Until then, I'm afraid you are only wishful thinking. But enjoy yourself. Me, I prefer dealing in facts.

CAN YOU READ THE SENTENCE BELOW? The STATE's Attorney General says Fox has been cleared. You can consider my "opinion," if you'd like, but I'd much prefer you just take the attorney general's word for it.


The DNA testing of evidence resulted in an "absolute exclusion of Kevin Fox as a donor," State's Atty. James Glasgow told the judge.
 
halycon said:
If you can show me some evidence that Kevin is cleared, I will be more than happy to consider your opinion. Until then, I'm afraid you are only wishful thinking. But enjoy yourself. Me, I prefer dealing in facts.

Show us evidence that Kevin isn't cleared. Show us your so called facts .
 
The facts are completely on my side.

Unless you can cite the EXACT location, type and amount of DNA, it is pure artifact to the case. Ask Zellner to tell you. She won't because she knows better!

Kevin is still the chief suspect. Sorry if you think otherwise.
 
halycon said:
The facts are completely on my side.

Unless you can cite the EXACT location, type and amount of DNA, it is pure artifact to the case. Ask Zellner to tell you. She won't because she knows better!

Kevin is still the chief suspect. Sorry if you think otherwise.


With all due respect Halycon, you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. If the FACTS were on your side, Kev would have been tried already.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
With all due respect Halycon, you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. If the FACTS were on your side, Kev would have been tried already.


Exaclty...
Halycon, you have given NO FACTS indicating that Kevin is still the prime suspect... I do not understand how you can minimize DNA.
 
Ladies, go to the source -- ask Zellner. My questions to you here are the ones she won't answer. They make her hair frizz even more than usual. When she hears my questions, and she has but not from me, she shrivels and shrieks because she knows the person asking them has found her weak spot.

Zellner is all smoke and mirrors. She won't deal with anything factual. I only deal in facts. Someday you will realize this.

Have a great day!
 
halycon said:
Ladies, go to the source -- ask Zellner. My questions to you here are the ones she won't answer. They make her hair frizz even more than usual. When she hears my questions, and she has but not from me, she shrivels and shrieks because she knows the person asking them has found her weak spot.

Zellner is all smoke and mirrors. She won't deal with anything factual. I only deal in facts. Someday you will realize this.

Have a great day!


Zellner doesn't answer to you. She's got a civil case to prepare for and her first duty is to her clients. Once the evidence is presented in open court, you'll either accept it or you won't. That's the way our civil courts work. The district attorneys office and the police office have much to loose. If they thought there was a shred of evidence that could save them their reputations and the amount of money this case is going to cost not only to defend, but the possible damage award, you can't convice me that they would accept the DNA as gospel and release Kevin and make that statement. Quite frankly, it matters not whether you and I can convince one another. What matters is what Zellner can convince her jury to believe. I tend to think they're going to believe what the STATE'S ATTORNEYS office admits to.
 
Zellner's sole job is to keep Kevin and other clients out of prison. Not to tell the truth. Not to find the truth. Not to find a replacement suspect. Just to keep him out of jail. And she will do that despite the horror of the crime that happened, the incredibly brutal murder of this innocent child whom Zellner cares nothing about.

You'd think someone in that Fox family would place a value of Riley's life over Kevin's. It's truly one of the saddest things I've ever witnessed. I only hope their private thoughts are a bit more sensible.

Riley deserves better. The taxpayers deserve better.

Oh, and that civil case? Well, tell the Foxes not to go spending that money yet...
 
halycon said:
Zellner's sole job is to keep Kevin and other clients out of prison. Not to tell the truth. Not to find the truth. Not to find a replacement suspect. Just to keep him out of jail. And she will do that despite the horror of the crime that happened, the incredibly brutal murder of this innocent child whom Zellner cares nothing about.

You'd think someone in that Fox family would place a value of Riley's life over Kevin's. It's truly one of the saddest things I've ever witnessed. I only hope their private thoughts are a bit more sensible.

Riley deserves better. The taxpayers deserve better.

Oh, and that civil case? Well, tell the Foxes not to go spending that money yet...


Zellner is a CIVIL attorney, not a criminal defense attorney, if I remember correctly. If I'm wrong, please show me a link proving it and I'll apologize. Civil attorneys do not keep people out of jail. They try to get damages awarded to their clients for different reasons. Her reasons in this case are obvious. The rest of the post about Riley's family makes no sense because Kevin had nothing to do with the crimes, so I'm just going to skip over that part.
 
Jeana (DP) said:
Zellner is a CIVIL attorney, not a criminal defense attorney, if I remember correctly. If I'm wrong, please show me a link proving it and I'll apologize. Civil attorneys do not keep people out of jail. They try to get damages awarded to their clients for different reasons. Her reasons in this case are obvious. The rest of the post about Riley's family makes no sense because Kevin had nothing to do with the crimes, so I'm just going to skip over that part.
Zellner has a diverse practice, handling both civil and criminal cases. Her best known criminal cases that I have read about have been at the post-trial motion or appellate level - getting the Ford Heights Four exonerated after DNA testing, the release of Kevin Fox, the currently ongoing appeal of Michael Cardamone, the Aurora gymnastics coach, and several others. She has also handled the civil suits seeking compensatory and punitive damages for the Ford Heights Four, Kevin Fox and several others, and has won large judgments. I do not know of any criminal cases where she has been the defense attorney at the initial trial court level. This is her law firm's web site:

http://www.kathleentzellner.com/firm.html

On another matter - Jeana (DP), I believe I remeber reading that you are a lawyer. What do you think the odds are of the Kevin Fox civil suit making it to trial? If I were a betting man - and I am not any more - I would bet at about 50-1 odds against it going to trial. I think, after Gerald Haberkorn, Will County's defense attorney, talks a lot about fighting this case to the end that it will quietly be settled out of court with no admission of liability on their part, and probably no disclosure of the settlement terms. In addition to the obvious impact of Kevin's testimony, I do not think they can overcome having the DNA from the beginning and not testing it, then hiding it, then calling off the testing. I think Tomczak's character and family history lends a dose of reality to the conspiracy theory that would play well with a jury. And Tyler testifying as to his ordeal would be the death blow to the defense, along with Zellner questioning Mary Jane Pluth, Tyler's unlicensed interrogator. And, of course, there is always of the luck of the draw regarding the judge. Based on his rulings in the pre-trial phase thus far, this judge appears inclined to give the plaintiffs every opportunity to proceed to trial, and has only dismissed one defendant.

It's really a shame that this case will likely fade quietly away, and so will the investigation of Riley's death, as the trail is so cold now, her killer will never be found unless there is a lucky break.
 
TangledWishes said:
Today is the anniversary of little Riley's death. My prayers and thoughts are with her family and friends.


My prayers are with them as well today.
 
Sweet little Riley. You are loved and missed, not only by your family but by countless others who never got the chance to see you or know you. I hope your spirit is chasing butterflies, climbing trees and counting stars.
 
Genecam, thanks. I remember now that we discussed her firm handling both the civil and criminal cases. Now that the criminal case is no longer an issue, she's serving as the civil attorney in this matter.

If they settle regardless of whether that happens tomorrow or the morning of trial, there will not be any admission of guilt on anyone's part and the settlement terms will remain confidential.

I think Kevin's got a good case, but I've only seen what's been presented in the media and the amended petition. I don't know what the defendants' responses are. Nothing good would come from a trial in this matter, so I would think that both sides would be anxious to try and settle, if at all possible. With an open murder investigation, the defendants won't want to have to testify as to certain aspects of their case, so that will be a factor as well.
 
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