GUILTY IL - Riley Fox, 3, Wilmington, 6 June 2004

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golfmom said:
Obviously they were concerned enough about the letter to request legal advice, unfortunately, the person they went to for that advice "forgot" what they talked about. :crazy:
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Yeah, isn't that interesting how the legal person "forgot" what they told them? Nice.
 
This is the article I was referring to:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-071119foxweb19,0,1469305.story

In earlier testimony, Sheriff's Deputy Scott Swearengen, the lead investigator on the case, said Melissa told him she "had no knowledge" of the letter and to disregard it. The letter was addressed to him.

Really, I'm puzzled ... How can Melissa waive Kevin's rights? How was this possible? It makes no sense!


Will County Assistant State's Atty. Deborah Mills testified Monday that Swearengen called her about the letter, leading to a meeting with Swearengen, her and some of then-State's Atty. Jeff Tomczak's top lieutenants. They "provided some legal advice," but she could not recall what it was, she said.

She probably can't remember because they provided some "illegal advice"
 
golfmom said:
This is the article I was referring to:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-071119foxweb19,0,1469305.story

In earlier testimony, Sheriff's Deputy Scott Swearengen, the lead investigator on the case, said Melissa told him she "had no knowledge" of the letter and to disregard it. The letter was addressed to him.

Really, I'm puzzled ... How can Melissa waive Kevin's rights? How was this possible? It makes no sense!


Will County Assistant State's Atty. Deborah Mills testified Monday that Swearengen called her about the letter, leading to a meeting with Swearengen, her and some of then-State's Atty. Jeff Tomczak's top lieutenants. They "provided some legal advice," but she could not recall what it was, she said.

She probably can't remember because they provided some "illegal advice"
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They could have been referring to the scenario that the letter stated NO member of the family was to be questioned w/out a lawyer present. Maybe they asked her about it b/c they were questioning her about something earlier on, (considering KF & MF believed these people to be on their side), so it was a casual conversation and he asks her if it is necessary to have someone present and she was just like "Nah, it's cool, I will talk to you."

As for the legal advice - it sure seems Scottie boy had never seen something like this before and didn't know proper protocal, or didn't know if he had to actually follow the advice on the letter. I would bet the forgotten advice was to CYA and have someone present when speaking to the Foxes! If the person cannot remember what advice they gave to him specifically, I am curious to see how they would answer the question of "Well, if you were to be approached with a letter like this, what would be the standard advice you would give?"
 
Well, I'll buy the fact that Melissa can refer to herself, thereby allowing detectives to question HER and only HER without the attorney present. But, certainly they couldn't have been relying on her say so as to being allowed to question Kevin without an attorney present ... could they?

LOL, I too was wishing that the hypothetical question was asked of Deborah Mills. "What would you advise LE to do when presented with such a letter?" Perhaps she was asked, and answered, and the reporter just didn't feel that was important or didn't want to report on the subject.

Maddy's Mom said:
They could have been referring to the scenario that the letter stated NO member of the family was to be questioned w/out a lawyer present. Maybe they asked her about it b/c they were questioning her about something earlier on, (considering KF & MF believed these people to be on their side), so it was a casual conversation and he asks her if it is necessary to have someone present and she was just like "Nah, it's cool, I will talk to you."

As for the legal advice - it sure seems Scottie boy had never seen something like this before and didn't know proper protocal, or didn't know if he had to actually follow the advice on the letter. I would bet the forgotten advice was to CYA and have someone present when speaking to the Foxes! If the person cannot remember what advice they gave to him specifically, I am curious to see how they would answer the question of "Well, if you were to be approached with a letter like this, what would be the standard advice you would give?"
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I am sure KZ has brought everything out about Mr. Williams' qualifications (lack thereof). It just hasn't been reported. More and more seems to be coming out about the defendants every day. Why are they still contesting this case? What do they think they have going for them that will turn it around? Deep down, this really bothers me.
 
genecam said:
I am sure KZ has brought everything out about Mr. Williams' qualifications (lack thereof). It just hasn't been reported. More and more seems to be coming out about the defendants every day. Why are they still contesting this case? What do they think they have going for them that will turn it around? Deep down, this really bothers me.
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Any idea when the prosecution is set to rest their case? After that, it will be time for the defense to lay their hand, right? It must be soon, most people have already testified. Is Kevin expected to testify on his own behalf? I thought I read that he was, but so much has gone back and forth here......
 
Maddy's Mom said:
Any idea when the prosecution is set to rest their case? After that, it will be time for the defense to lay their hand, right? It must be soon, most people have already testified. Is Kevin expected to testify on his own behalf? I thought I read that he was, but so much has gone back and forth here......
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One would think Melissa would testify in order to refute the statements implicating Kevin that the detectives allege she made. It would also appear Kevin would have to testify as to his version of what transpired during the interrogation, since he and the detectives were the only ones in the room, and there are several issues relating to that that are in dispute, such as when was he under arrest, did he request and was denied a lawyer, etc. Also, it has been reported that an FBI agent will testify, ostensibly concerning instructions on testing the DNA evidence submitted. Also, after Tomczak was dropped as a defendant, supposedly as a result of an agreement and possible settlement between him and the plaintiffs (in a civil suit they are plaintiffs not prosecution), kz said she was going to call him as a witness. Only fair since he supposedly started this whole fiasco. So, sit tight MM, it appears this flight still has a long way to go before it reaches its destination.
 
Maddy's Mom said:
Any idea when the prosecution is set to rest their case? After that, it will be time for the defense to lay their hand, right? It must be soon, most people have already testified. Is Kevin expected to testify on his own behalf? I thought I read that he was, but so much has gone back and forth here......
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I mistyped above. Kevin should not be testifying "on his own behalf" because he is not on trial here. I hope one thing they learn from all this is test before the arrest!
 
Hello, I'm more of the lurker than replying to everyone's post, but I have to make a comment on MM's quote from KZ on "Test before the arrest". Every case is different and you can't always wait for the results from the lab. Take the Aurora case where a teenager's step-father was sexually assaulting her and she reported it to the police and they did the rape kit and everything and waited to arrest the man until results were in. In the mean time he killed her and silenced her. Every factor in every case needs to be looked at. And you cannot use the same method in every case. Now this one you could have waited because the victim was already deceased. The only factor they should have considering in arresting Kevin before the results were in is if he was a flight risk. If he wasn't, why rush? There was no statute of limitations. Let the facts and evidence make the case and not your theories.:p
 
tadpole said:
Let the facts and evidence make the case and not your theories.:p
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Thanks for your post, Tadpole. I see your point about every case being different, however, it is the Fox case specifically where they should have done the test before the arrest. As you pointed out, the facts and evidence need to make the case. LE had no evidence to go on, they repeatedly thwarted efforts to have the DNA tested, and completely botched this from the beginning. The ONLY thing they had was the rape kit and duct tape with DNA to go on and they didn't even bother to check if there was a match on it. They targeted Kevin from Day 1 and did whatever they had to do to arrest him on this. Wilmington was not about to let this go with no one taking the blame.

The case with the Aurora girl was a completely different scenario. That poor girl tried to report him and tried to get it to stop. LE had a responsibility to serve and protect that little girl after she told them what was happening to her. They should have kept that man away froom her but unfortunately, they cannot be everywhere at once and as you said, he silenced her.
 
tadpole said:
The only factor they should have considering in arresting Kevin before the results were in is if he was a flight risk. If he wasn't, why rush?
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One more thing to add to this: The rush was the election that was coming up within a week or two of his arrest. You are right, he was not a flight risk. But they felt they had to arrest someone quickly so the sheriff's office came off looking good enough to get Tomczak reelected.
 
Poor Stewart will be absolutely dismayed to discover that Brian actually reported on the trial rather than earnestly avoiding reporting anything that alludes to the strength of the Foxes allegations.

http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/heraldnews/news/668234,4_1_JO27_FOX_S1.article

Inventory list

Fox's attorneys showed the jury an evidence inventory list dated a year after Riley's death of surveillance videos from area businesses.

Johnson asked Budde if she knew of any reason why a detective would not have turned that evidence in earlier. "Enhancing it or changing it perhaps?" he asked, bringing a quick objection from the defense.

:cool: Oops ... I suppose they didn't expect to be caught on that one. This is getting to be a theme in WC ... if you don't like the evidence/results, just hide it or change it.

Monday also saw testimony from criminal defense attorney Paul DeLuca. DeLuca said the sheriff's office delayed sending the DNA kits to a private laboratory as Fox's lawyers and the state's attorney's office had agreed.

"We learned they had been sent back to the Illinois State Police crime lab at the request of (defendant) Edward Hayes."

:rolleyes: LOL ... I suppose he didn't expect to be caught on that one either? First they were trying to say that they were just waiting for "the FBI to run at it's own pace", then we find out that Hayes told the FBI to stop testing while everyone was sitting around waiting for them to "run at it's own pace", then we find out Hayes sent the evidence to the wrong lab ... but, it wasn't like they didn't know how to handle the evidence or where it was at ... whatever!

Under cross-examination, DeLuca, formerly a prosecutor for DuPage and Cook counties, conceded there are different standards between probable cause for an arrest and proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in court.

DeLuca also said at the time Kevin Fox was arrested in Oct. 2004 no DNA profile had been returned from the sexual assault kits sent to the FBI and state police crime lab.

:banghead: That's because Hayes had spent all his time playing hide the evidence instead of solve the case.
 
The detectives in the case have previously claimed that they had probable cause prior to bringing KF in for questioning.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-fox28_webnov28,1,5493602.story

Before Kevin Fox went in for the interview that ended in his arrest for the sexual assault and murder of his 3-year-old daughter, Will County Sheriff Paul Kaupas had no information making Fox a suspect, Kaupas testified Tuesday in federal court.

Asked whether he knew of evidence prior to the Oct. 26, 2004, interview, which turned into a 14-hour interrogation, that was sufficient to arrest Fox, Kaupas said, "Not that I'm aware of."
.........
Kaupas said he understood detectives had called in Fox on Oct. 26, 2004, to conduct an interview, much as they had done on other occasions. But the tone changed during the interview, he added.

"They had developed a feeling or instinct that led them to move from the interview to what we would call an interrogation," Kaupas said.
 
Interesting, this may be in reference to the altered evidence log regarding surveillance video. I wonder at what point the keystone kops figured out that the clock was wrong?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-fox28_webnov28,1,5493602.story

In earlier testimony Tuesday, a worker at a Wilmington gas station said the clock setting on the station's video-surveillance system always listed the wrong time.

Detectives have said surveillance tapes from the system show a sport-utility vehicle very similar to Kevin Fox's passing the station during the early morning hours of June 6, 2004. The station is along one path from the Foxes' former home to the spot where Riley's body was found.
 
Has anyone seen the taped "confession"? Is anyone ever going to get to see it?
 
Guilfoyle's testimony was disgusting. I wanted to puke after reading the report of it. Lazy, incompetent thugs are terms too good to describe these slimey excuses for law enforcement officers.

So that's what their strategy is - they are going to lie and lie and lie and are going to twist and distort the words of a then-six-year-old boy and use him to justify their actions to frame his father. What cowards!

Boy I bet the Sheriff's guys are really sorry the interview with Tyler was taped. At the end of it Tyler was balled up in a fetal position and screaming "I want my dad!!!" And even after that Guilfoyle had the balls to say Tyler told him afterwards that he was afraid of his dad. But of course, that was not on video or audio tape, and of course there were no notes made of it.

They are just repulsive people. If the jury believes anything these guys have to say and they prevail in this case, I really feel sorry for the people of Will County. These guys will be so full of themselves that they will have a virtual Nazi-style police state. Kaupus and his merry band of marauders will be like the Gestapo and the good scribe Stewart Warren can play Eva Braun to Kaupus's Adolph Hitler. Or will it be Mary Jane Pluth playing Eva. I guess she and Stew can arm wrestle for it. But Mary Jane better be careful. Stew probably plays dirty. After all, "You can never trust a gal named Stew."
 
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