GUILTY IL - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, in suitcase in Bali, 12 Aug 2014 *fnd guilty in Bali* #6

[Kamille]

Exactly. Sheila should have made a Family Trust with her husband instead while he was alive and Heather was little, so that Heather didn't feel so entitled. We just created one, and the only way that our daughter gets money aside from us giving it to her is if something happens to both of us, then she'll get some at 21, some at 25, and some at 30. Sheila should have done something like that instead.

I think Sheila did have some kind of trust set up for HM and her brother WW was to oversee it.

The problems regarding money and Heather’s belief that there was a lot of it, started with the lawsuit against the cruise line. Prior to that they were just perhaps living an upper middle class life, living in a big house that JM owned before he married Sheila. For some reason HM seemed to think they won around 11 million dollars, or at least that’s what she told TS the estate was worth. I don’t think she quite understood that the lawsuit may have originally been for that amount but it was settled for around $750,000 and she always believed that she was to be the recipient of those funds willed to her by her father (in her mind, millions of dollars) and that her mother had stolen that money from her. I don’t think she understood how marital property works. I think the entire estate, valued at around 1.5 million was set up in trust for her to be managed by WW should Sheila die before HM was 25 or 30, not sure which age was on the trust.

MOO

 

[otto]

Exactly. Sheila should have made a Family Trust with her husband instead while he was alive and Heather was little, so that Heather didn't feel so entitled. We just created one, and the only way that our daughter gets money aside from us giving it to her is if something happens to both of us, then she'll get some at 21, some at 25, and some at 30. Sheila should have done something like that instead.

It seems that a good portion of the money came from a wrongful death suit related to Sheila's husband after his foot injury was improperly treated and he died. I'm guessing that a portion of that money, plus perhaps whatever money her father had, was put in trust or set aside for Heather Mack, but Mack wanted the money now - not later - and she believed that her mother was spending her money. I think she was also deluded about the amount of money that was involved.

I did read that Sheila tried to get a refund for the Bali trip due to Mack's violence. When she could not be refunded, she decided to take the trip with Mack. What I don't understand is why she didn't invite a friend to take Mack's place. The money was spent, it was non-refundable, but that didn't mean that Mack should vacation with her.

 

[otto]

Instagram screenshots from Mack's account in 2015 depict her time in the Bali prison.

Heather Mack returns on Instagram - Oak Park

 

[DeDee]

Surely the wonderful people of the great state of Illinois will not allow HM to receive any profit from murdering her mother. The Slayer Rule prevents her from inheriting any funds from the victim, SVWM.

"The Illinois statute provides, simply, that a “person who intentionally and unjustifiably causes the death of another shall not receive any property, benefit or other interest by reason of the death, whether as heir, legatee, beneficiary, joint tenant, survivor, appointee, or in any other capacity.”

Murder Most Foul . . . Visiting the “Slayer Statute” in Illinois - Goldstine, Skrodzki, Russian, Nemec and Hoff, Ltd.

Although most states have some form of laws established to prevent killers from profiting from their crimes, I'm not certain how the state of Illinois interprets the [unconstitutional] Son of Sam Law. In briefly researching this aspect, it seems Illinois formed and tailored their SoS Law in order to prevent elected officials, namely, Blagojevich, from profiting from crimes, in general.

The constitutionality of the original Son of Sam law was eventually examined in 1991 by the United States Supreme Court in Simon & Schuster v. New York State Crime Victims Board. 22 The Court held the law to be an unconstitutional restriction on free speech but suggested that a properly tailored and worded Son of Sam law could conceivably be constitutional.2

Page 4 of 18: Son of Blagojevich: A Look at the Constitutionality of Illinois' New “Son Of Sam” Law
http://www.pennstatelawreview.org/115/1/115 Penn St. L. Rev. 289.pdf

Any law designed to keep criminals from profiting from the publicity of their crimes, often by selling their stories to publishers. Such laws often authorize the state to seize money earned from deals such as book/movie biographies and paid interviews and use it to compensate the criminal's victims.
Son of Sam law - Wikipedia

 

[ficus]

Oops, I didn’t realize it was one of the links fiscus provided. Sorry fiscus, and thanks for finding those links.

It's OK, I'm just glad I can stop looking . Reading/watching too much about HM/TS/RB is like trudging through the most disgusting, vile sewer.

One Daily Mail article (not linking it now out of kindness to y'all since it has a lot of vomit-inducing spewing from Tommy) has Tommy saying Heather planned to take Stella and move to another country once released. Not stay in Bali. Not return to the US. Heather and Tommy tried to get their passports from the St. Regis hotel so they could flee Bali after the murder, but Sheila managed to have the passports locked up so they could not be released without her permission. Without a passport and with an accessory to murder conviction, it seems that Heather would have had a hard time going anywhere but back to the US after Kerobokan. With the movie discussion here, I was having a nice fantasy that she had only abandoned the move-to-another-county plan so she could come back here to make her movie, and it turned out to be poetic justice that the return got her locked up again. But I now believe she had no other option but to come back to the US, movie or no movie, and FBI involvement notwithstanding.

I will not be watching her movie though unless Tommy's rapping is the soundtrack. ( I hope I don't need to point out how heavy the sarcasm is, but just in case....)

 

[otto]

It's OK, I'm just glad I can stop looking . Reading/watching too much about HM/TS/RB is like trudging through the most disgusting, vile sewer.

One Daily Mail article (not linking it now out of kindness to y'all since it has a lot of vomit-inducing spewing from Tommy) has Tommy saying Heather planned to take Stella and move to another country once released. Not stay in Bali. Not return to the US. Heather and Tommy tried to get their passports from the St. Regis hotel so they could flee Bali after the murder, but Sheila managed to have the passports locked up so they could not be released without her permission. Without a passport and with an accessory to murder conviction, it seems that Heather would have had a hard time going anywhere but back to the US after Kerobokan. With the movie discussion here, I was having a nice fantasy that she had only abandoned the move-to-another-county plan so she could come back here to make her movie, and it turned out to be poetic justice that the return got her locked up again. But I now believe she had no other option but to come back to the US, movie or no movie, and FBI involvement notwithstanding.

I will not be watching her movie though unless Tommy's rapping is the soundtrack. ( I hope I don't need to point out how heavy the sarcasm is, but just in case....)

I'm guessing that Bali law, as with most countries, requires that criminals are deported to their native country when released from prison. Mack had no choice but to be deported with her daughter to the USA. Her next move would have been to somehow get control over her daughter's money.

Do we know who controls the money at this time?

 

[Kamille]

Surely the wonderful people of the great state of Illinois will not allow HM to receive any profit from murdering her mother. The Slayer Rule prevents her from inheriting any funds from the victim, SVWM.

"The Illinois statute provides, simply, that a “person who intentionally and unjustifiably causes the death of another shall not receive any property, benefit or other interest by reason of the death, whether as heir, legatee, beneficiary, joint tenant, survivor, appointee, or in any other capacity.”

Murder Most Foul . . . Visiting the “Slayer Statute” in Illinois - Goldstine, Skrodzki, Russian, Nemec and Hoff, Ltd.

Although most states have some form of laws established to prevent killers from profiting from their crimes, I'm not certain how the state of Illinois interprets the [unconstitutional] Son of Sam Law. In briefly researching this aspect, it seems Illinois formed and tailored their SoS Law in order to prevent elected officials, namely, Blagojevich, from profiting from crimes, in general.

The constitutionality of the original Son of Sam law was eventually examined in 1991 by the United States Supreme Court in Simon & Schuster v. New York State Crime Victims Board. 22 The Court held the law to be an unconstitutional restriction on free speech but suggested that a properly tailored and worded Son of Sam law could conceivably be constitutional.2

Page 4 of 18: Son of Blagojevich: A Look at the Constitutionality of Illinois' New “Son Of Sam” Law
http://www.pennstatelawreview.org/115/1/115 Penn St. L. Rev. 289.pdf

Any law designed to keep criminals from profiting from the publicity of their crimes, often by selling their stories to publishers. Such laws often authorize the state to seize money earned from deals such as book/movie biographies and paid interviews and use it to compensate the criminal's victims.
Son of Sam law - Wikipedia

Sheila’s brother went through quite an ordeal to make sure that HM did not inherit or receive any more funds from her mother’s estate after the judge allowed the $150,000 bribe money that got HM and TS such lenient sentences despite the damning evidence that the Bali courts had. Of course the fact that the rest of the trust is now for Stella and she is likely receiving funds for her day to day needs, as long as HM has control over Stella, she has some access to the funds. I saw one article posted here recently that indicated it is worth half the original amount because of all the legal fees due to HM fighting it for years.

As for profiting from the crime on her own, she has been working that over the years in Bali with exclusive interviews and photos to select media and will continue to do so on a much larger scale in the US if she is permitted to. The proposed “documentary” she was headed to LA for when she was redirected to Chicago by the FBI is one example. That has been in the works since 2016. A plan hatched while she was incarcerated with a cell phone at all times, making deals, in Kerobokan.

MOO

 

[ficus]

I actually don't think it's a good idea to put the child with Schaeffer's mother. We know she wants custody, but she raised Tommy and we know how he turned out. A child of two murderers should be in a stable home where the guardians, or adoptive parents, have no relationship to murderers.

She raised not just any murderer, but a physically strong young man who battered a woman in her 60s until she asphyxiated in her own blood and did this solely for financial gain. And he had plotted the murder out with fellow conspirators for months ahead of time; at any moment during that time he could have had a change of heart, or maybe I should say if he had had a conscience it could have kicked in. No need to even mention the suitcase again.

The only "redeeming" part is that at least Schaefer's mother raised an idiot who recorded the entire plot in text messages.

 

[Kamille]

I'm guessing that Bali law, as with most countries, requires that criminals are deported to their native country when released from prison. Mack had no choice but to be deported with her daughter to the USA. Her next move would have been to somehow get control over her daughter's money.

Do we know who controls the money at this time?

I’m assuming that WW still has control over the trust but then I’m just assuming.

MOO

 

[otto]

Sheila’s brother went through quite an ordeal to make sure that HM did not inherit or receive any more funds from her mother’s estate after the judge allowed the $150,000 bribe money that got HM and TS such lenient sentences despite the damning evidence that the Bali courts had. Of course the fact that the rest of the trust is now for Stella and she is likely receiving funds for her day to day needs, as long as HM has control over Stella, she has some access to the funds. I saw one article posted here recently that indicated it is worth half the original amount because of all the legal fees due to HM fighting it for years.

As for profiting from the crime on her own, she has been working that over the years in Bali with exclusive interviews and photos to select media and will continue to do so on a much larger scale in the US if she is permitted to. The proposed “documentary” she was headed to LA for when she was redirected to Chicago by the FBI is one example. That has been in the works since 2016. A plan hatched while she was incarcerated with a cell phone at all times, making deals, in Kerobokan.

MOO

I read that the original estate was worth $1.6 million, and that it was $1.2 million after legal costs. There was another comment from Sheila's brother that all costs for the child seems over-inflated, and he suspected that Mack was receiving money from the trust through those over-inflated costs.

 

[otto]

She raised not just any murderer, but a physically strong young man who battered a woman in her 60s until she asphyxiated in her own blood and did this solely for financial gain. And he had plotted the murder out with fellow conspirators for months ahead of time; at any moment during that time he could have had a change of heart, or maybe I should say if he had had a conscience it could have kicked in. No need to even mention the suitcase again.

The only "redeeming" part is that at least Schaefer's mother raised an idiot who recorded the entire plot in text messages.

Not only did she raise a violent murderer, but Schaefer's cousin knew about the planned murder for months and encouraged Schaefer with suggestions for how to commit murder. It's not just Schaefer, but also a cousin who has the same values. It does not seem like the right family for a child of two violent murderers.

 

[otto]

I’m assuming that WW still has control over the trust but then I’m just assuming.

MOO

Is WW a lawyer?

 

[Kamille]

She raised not just any murderer, but a physically strong young man who battered a woman in her 60s until she asphyxiated in her own blood and did this solely for financial gain. And he had plotted the murder out with fellow conspirators for months ahead of time; at any moment during that time he could have had a change of heart, or maybe I should say if he had had a conscience it could have kicked in. No need to even mention the suitcase again.

The only "redeeming" part is that at least Schaefer's mother raised an idiot who recorded the entire plot in text messages.

My thinking about that has always been that you can’t always judge the parent by the behaviour of the child. From what we know about KW, she seems like a mature and responsible woman. SVWM raised HM and we wouldn’t judge her by the way HM turned out.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

Is WW a lawyer?

Yes, at least he was. He may be retired now.

 

[otto]

My thinking about that has always been that you can’t always judge the parent by the behaviour of the child. From what we know about KW, she seems like a mature and responsible woman. SVWM raised HM and we wouldn’t judge her by the way HM turned out.

MOO

True, but would Sheila be the right person to raise a granddaughter whose first two years were spent in prison surrounded by criminals? Sheila's family has admitted that they cannot provide a home for a child like that. I think Stella needs a calm, stable home with consistent values. She should not be exposed to an environment were several family members believe that murder for money is okay.

 

[ficus]

In general, leaving any questions of personalities and inheritance motives aside, it would always trouble me to have a murder victim's grandchild being raised by the family of the murderer.

 

[Kamille]

True, but would Sheila be the right person to raise a granddaughter whose first two years were spent in prison surrounded by criminals? Sheila's family has admitted that they cannot provide a home for a child like that. I think Stella needs a calm, stable home with consistent values. She should not be exposed to an environment were several family members believe that murder for money is okay.

I have always believed that Stella should have been adopted to a completely anonymous couple, after her birth without ever being handed over to HM to raise for any period of time in a prison. Had this murder taken place in the US and HM and TS had been arrested with the same evidence against them, I always wondered how the situation with Stella would have been dealt with.

FWIW, I do not know what the family connection is between RB and TS. They call themselves cousins but I’m not sure that connection is through KW or through TS’ father, who I don’t think has any relationship with either TS or KW but I really don’t know. So, right now, if the option for Stella is either a foster placement with complete strangers or a guardian placement with her actual paternal grandmother, whom she apparently knows, then I’d opt for KW after she’s been approved by CPS. It’s apparent that HM will never approve an adoption.

MOO

 

[ficus]

Do we know who controls the money at this time?

I certainly agree that WW nominally is the trustee who controls the trust, but I can't forget about this circus:

Judge OKs Murder Suspect's Request For Trust Fund Money

Mack's motion, filed Thursday, alleged that her uncle, William Wiese, has denied access to funds in the $1.56 million estate that could be used to provide for her "health, support, and maintenance." Wiese is the brother of Mack's slain mother, Sheila von Wiese-Mack, and the trustee of her estate.

So the ultimate control is in the hands of a Chicago judge, with the power to override WW.

 

[otto]

I have always believed that Stella should have been adopted to a completely anonymous couple, after her birth without ever being handed over to HM to raise for any period of time in a prison. Had this murder taken place in the US and HM and TS had been arrested with the same evidence against them, I always wondered how the situation with Stella would have been dealt with.

FWIW, I do not know what the family connection is between RB and TS. They call themselves cousins but I’m not sure that connection is through KW or through TS’ father, who I don’t think has any relationship with either TS or KW but I really don’t know. So, right now, if the option for Stella is either a foster placement with complete strangers or a guardian placement with her actual paternal grandmother, whom she apparently knows, then I’d opt for KW after she’s been approved by CPS. It’s apparent that HM will never approve an adoption.

MOO

The problem I see with Schaefer's mother raising the child is that she seems to be short of cash. The child should be in a financially stable environment where her inheritance is not necessary to feed her and her caregiver.

Schaefer had TB and Covid in prison. He suffers from malnutrition. If his mother had money, surely she would ensure that her son is not suffering malnutrition. If she has enough money and sits idle while her son is malnourished, that is also a problem, in my opinion.

"Schaefer - who's turned to God during his time behind bars and is full of remorse - suffers from malnutrition while battling health problems, a close friend has claimed.

The pal exclusively told The Sun: "Tommy is doing okay, it's been a tough couple of years, he got TB in 2019 and was very sick for about nine months and then, in early 2021, he got Covid.

"His health has been a struggle, but he's hanging in there and trying to make the best of the situation."
​

Nov 2 2021
Suitcase killer's ex and accomplice struck down with TB & Covid in jail

 

[otto]

Refreshing my memory. Murder: August 11, 2014

This photo was taken the first time they saw each other after the arrest, four months of separation. Perhaps they were thinking that, even though they were caught, they keep the money through the child. It sounds like they concocted a story that Sheila threatened to kill the unborn baby, she attacked him, he defended himself with a fruitbowl, she tried to strangle him, he accidentally killed her.

"It was a tearful reunion for Chicago residents Heather Mack and Tommy Schaefer, who were arrested by Bali police in August for the brutal murder of Mack’s mother – whose battered body was found stuffed in a suitcase and left in the back of a cab at a luxury resort on the island ... quickly began hugging one another and sobbing.
...

The murder on Aug. 11 allegedly occurred hours after Schaefer arrived in Bali, unbeknownst to Wiese-Mack, who had been vacationing on the island for several days with her daughter. Schaefer, at the urging of Heather, went to visit Wiese-Mack in room 317 at the hotel, carrying a bowl of fruit.

According to police, an argument quickly broke out over Heather’s pregnancy, with Wiese-Mack reportedly making offensive comments about Schaefer and his baby, allegedly threatening to kill the unborn child. Schaefer ended up beating Wiese-Mack to death with the fruit bowl after the argument escalated to the point that the victim wrapped her hands around Schaefer’s throat."
​

December 08, 2014
Couple Accused of Murdering Chicago Socialite Sheila von Mack Reunite in Bali Prosecutor's Office

Next, texts and email from February - August 11 between Mack, Schaefer and his cousin planning the murder were released. That discredited the fruit-bowl gift accidental-death story. Tommy took the blame, but Heather did not get off as the damsel in distress hiding in the bathroom because of the texts planning the murder.

towards the bottom, email and text:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/file/777641/download

Question for a lawyer: If the text and email were used to secure a prior conviction, can that same evidence be used to convict for an international offence?