IL IL - Timmothy Fry-Pitzen, 6, Aurora, 13 May 2011 - mom found dead - #1

[Wondergirl]

The other thing is, what if the reason the glass marking beads had been on the road in the past, is because they were of a temporary nature, because they were applied between November and April, as per below?

Thermoplastic shall be applied only when the pavement temperature is 55 ºF (13 ºC) or greater and no later than November 1 or earlier than April 15. If the thermoplastic markings cannot be placed according to these specifications and the road is to be opened to traffic between November 1 and April 15 and no adequate pavement markings are in place, the Contractor shall, at the direction of the Engineer, place temporary pavement markings according to Section 703. The Contractor shall remove the temporary pavement markings and place the thermoplastic pavement markings on or after April 15 or as agreed upon by the Engineer.

http://dot.state.il.us/desenv/spec2007/div700.pdf

 

[Cubby]

Wasn't there construction along the possible route mom would have driven with Timmy? I seem to recall some discussion early in the thread about area's along either I-39 or I-88 regarding construction. I wish LE could determine an approximate age on the glass beads. It would really help narrow the possible area's.

Also, anyone who lives in IL knows we joke we have two seasons, winter and construction. There is so much ALWAYS under construction in the metro Chicago area. I'm not sure so much further west, and since we know mom went to Brookfield Zoo and then up north to the IL waterpark near Gurnee and then to the Dells there is really no way to determine where she might have picked up those glass beads. At least not from the info we received, imo.

 

[Oriah]

That's what I was thinking, Wondergirl and Cubby. Even if the beads were 'old' the substrate where they were transfered- from road surface to tire would have to be somewhat 'giving' I would think. New construction? Or very old and eroded? The contractors all seem to have a couple of very specific sources of paving materials (most seem to have the same distributers) and certain areas seem to have regulations about using certain types of road markings for certain areas. For example, I found one county that only uses the beads for directional markers, such as the big arrows you'll see in parking lots of administrative complexes, shopping centers, schools, hospitals, etc- places where traffic needs to be routed one way to avoid oncoming traffic. And then other counties where they have only been used for middle line designation- so a vehicle in that instance would have to cross over to pick up trace evidence of the beads on vehicle tires. Also- I think it's interesting that in less illuminated areas, they seem to be more common. With the exception of big businesses who are increasing safety options for drivers. Who knew pavement could be so informative?!

No matter how we look at it- I think this is a huge release of info- and incredibly useful. Just a bit daunting in it's scope.

But combining that with the grass/dirt/etc analysis...seems like we might be able to narrow this down a little bit more? Ok, off to look up how long it takes to lose or burn off the bead particles from tires while driving long stretches without encountering them...

 

[Cubby]

I'm about 30-40 minutes from Brookfield Zoo and at one time 20+ years ago I lived in Aurora, IL. Those glass beads are everywhere around here. The type of plants described are everywhere around here.

I don't mean to sound like Debbie Downer, but we know Amy stopped at Brookfield Zoo. The Des Plaines River runs alongside of the Zoo just east of 1st Ave.

brookfield zoo - Google Maps

I found a former address of Amy and her husbands in Lombard, IL/ DuPage County on Woodland Ave. Woodland Ave. runs east and west and is just north and east of the St. Charles Rd and Rt 53 intersection. Within a block is the DuPage River. Do I think Amy went back near where Timmy was born? The dates they resided at this apartment complex line up with the 1st year of Timmy's life. It doesn't match up with the pings, but the drive fits in with the timeline.

The apartments are the 5 buildings with the white roof. The DuPage river is just west of I-355

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q...code_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ8gEwAA


Sadly, this info to me, being local to the Aurora and Brookfield Zoo area's is still like a needle in a haystack.


Additionally, the Fox river runs through Aurora not far from where Amy and Timmy lived in Aurora.

I wish I had more idea's, I really don't.

 

[Oriah]

I'm about 30-40 minutes from Brookfield Zoo and at one time 20+ years ago I lived in Aurora, IL. Those glass beads are everywhere around here. The type of plants described are everywhere around here.

I don't mean to sound like Debbie Downer, but we know Amy stopped at Brookfield Zoo. The Des Plaines River runs alongside of the Zoo just east of 1st Ave.

brookfield zoo - Google Maps

I found a former address of Amy and her husbands in Lombard, IL/ DuPage County on Woodland Ave. Woodland Ave. runs east and west and is just north and east of the St. Charles Rd and Rt 53 intersection. Within a block is the DuPage River. Do I think Amy went back near where Timmy was born? The dates they resided at this apartment complex line up with the 1st year of Timmy's life. It doesn't match up with the pings, but the drive fits in with the timeline.

The apartments are the 5 buildings with the white roof. The DuPage river is just west of I-355

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q...code_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBwQ8gEwAA


Sadly, this info to me, being local to the Aurora and Brookfield Zoo area's is still like a needle in a haystack.


Additionally, the Fox river runs through Aurora not far from where Amy and Timmy lived in Aurora.

I wish I had more idea's, I really don't.

Cubby, no worries about being a Debbie Downer.

The glass beads that are everywhere- do you mean everywhere as in on every roadway, used for visibility? I'm kind of interested in the salt/sand composition used during winters in the area to de-ice, as well as plows and how they degrade the beads. (I know, I'm a nerd.)

I can't imagine that LE spent that much time and effort analyzing residue on Amy's tires- and then released that info to the public- for no reason.

If it's from the visit to the zoo- then is that the time frame we are looking at, do you think?

 

[Cubby]

Except for side streets in residential neighborhoods all of the main roads here have the glass bead markings used for visibility with both the yellow double or dotted center lines and the white lines. In addition to actual plastic? reflectors in the road. Both are used here. (Kind of like bike reflectors in the road, if that helps as I don't know what they are called.)


The parking lot at the zoo is likely fully paved. however there is so much forest preserve surrounding the zoo it is possible she made a turn around somewhere near the zoo.

Her likely route from Aurora to the Zoo would have been I-88 east to Rt 294 S to 31st street and then east to the Zoo.

Amy went to the Zoo the first day she picked up Timmy. She was at the zoo during the time her car was being repaired. She later went to the water park in Gurnee and then to the Dells. I'm just not 100% certain she didn't head back east and then to Rockford. She could have done so within the time of the last ping, the last store sighting and then check in time at the motel.


There is no sand used here that I am aware of for snow/ice. It is always salt unless for some reason we have so much snow they run out of salt. Even then, I don't recall driving on or hearing anyone use sand.

Sadly, the whole northern or at least NC and NE area of the state could be considered a tall grass prairie at one time....

I wish LE would give some info on the mileage from the time the car was repaired until found. the auto repair shop would have certainly recorded the mileage when the car was taken in for repairs.

I wish LE would also subpeona her medical records. They can do so for a MP investigation despite HIPAA. Since someone upthread, MarthaM iirc, mentioned the unaccounted trips were on the 3rd weekend of the month, I wonder if she was participating in any kind of support group/therapy that may be found in medical records that she did not mention to her family. I'd like for LE to say they have ruled out, or not found evidence those trips were medical or business related.

We can always try an email to Aurora PD with a list of these questions, including the degradation or appx age of the glass beads and see what additional information they are willing to provide.

Aurora is pretty much considered the farthest west outskirt of the Chicagoland area. RT 47 would be about the border. I'm not at all familiar with anything much west of 47.

 

[MarthaM]

I think that LE/scientists have been able to establish when the various types of residue under her car got there. They can 'age' everything, and tell what got there within hours of when her vehicle was found vs. what had been there for a day or two or more. So if they're concentrating on certain types of vegetation and roads, it's because it's the most recent stuff on there. Also, while Queen Anne's Lace and the other vegetation definitely grow all over the midwest, it sounds like it's clear that she had to have driven over it, rather than parked in a parking lot where there's some of it nearby.

And think 'layers'. Besides being able to tell how long a substance has been there, they can tell the order in which the different things ended up on the car. It sounds like the wildflowers LE described were very recent.

 

[Cubby]

I agree Martha. There was still enough time imo, to drive back east on the last day Timmy was seen. It would have been no more than an appx 3 hour round trip from Rockford back to the Lombard area or even back near the zoo. ETAA: Or back near her old HS neck of the woods. Isn't Busse Woods not far from where she went to HS? (I think it is spelled Busse Woods. and IIRC that isn't that far off 90 correct? )

I guess I just wish we had more info on how degraded the beads were. Was it from a recently constructed road? Or a more degraded road that hadn't been serviced in many years?

It seems too much of what is being released is based on what the family reported, the nose bleed, the unaccounted for trips. What has LE uncovered or ruled out about that information?

ETA: When was the last time Amy visited with her friends? Was she the type who had to hide and make up stories about visiting her friends because her husband didn't like them or had problems with her socializing? I don't mean to accuse him by this question, just thinking outloud here. Especially since I don't recall any comments from her female friends. I only recall comments from family and her former husband(s).

 

[carterkatt]

I used to live in northern IL on the Mississippi and later in the Chicago suburbs. For a while I lived near Peoria. The discussion about the grasses, etc made me remember Wildlife Prairie Park near Peoria. Is that a possibility, or too far away?

 

[blazelet]

I haven't checked this thread in a bit, so excited to see new topics of discussion!! Thanks to all of you who have contributed to this case. It is my hope and prayer that they will find him soon.

 

[MarthaM]

There's an article about Timmothy in today's Tribune, although there's not really much new in it. It does say that there's a new lead investigator in the case, and that police don't have a firm belief one way or the other about whether Timmothy is alive or not:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-pitzen-investigation-20111229,0,2035220.story

 

[Cubby]

There's an article about Timmothy in today's Tribune, although there's not really much new in it. It does say that there's a new lead investigator in the case, and that police don't have a firm belief one way or the other about whether Timmothy is alive or not:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-pitzen-investigation-20111229,0,2035220.story

From the above link:

None of the efforts have brought investigators to a conclusion about whether Timmothy is alive or dead, Byrne said.

"We don't have enough evidence to pull us in one way or another," Byrne said. "We have a lot of little things that kind of pull us in both directions and that's what's frustrating."

I'm taking this as good news. This tells me LE was not able to find enough evidence of blood in the back seat of the SUV to conclusively rule out the possibility of finding a live Timmy.

While I don't know how she could have pulled it off, if she was contemplating suicide on and off for years and suffering from depression for many years she had a lot of time to research various avenues and possibly plan for passing him off to someone without detection.


LE has never come out and stated they don't believe he never left Illinois or the IL/IA border Amy was known to travel. I hope they are utilizing national and international databases for Timmy's disappearance. The FBI site which lists missing children, interpol.... He could be anywhere.

Praying 2012 is the year for answers into Timmy's disappearance.

 

[summer_breeze]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/ct-met-pitzen-investigation-20111229,0,2035220.story

By Ted Gregory, Chicago Tribune reporter
9:08 p.m. CST, December 28, 2011

On Saturday, Aurora police received the latest tip in the case of missing kindergartner Timmothy Pitzen, who was 6 when he disappeared in May.

 

[blazelet]

Here is another article

http://beaconnews.suntimes.com/news...m-remains-mystery-to-police-investigator.html

It's a good profile on the mystery of Amy.

I also believe that no bad news is good news!

 

[summer_breeze]

http://beaconnews.suntimes.com/news...g-aurora-boy-remains-a-mystery-to-police.html

By Matt Hanley mhanley@stmedianetwork.com
December 29, 2011 9:40AM

It has been nearly eight months since Amy Pitzen pulled her 6-year-old son Timmothy out of school for an unannounced vacation

 

[MarthaM]

Here is another article

http://beaconnews.suntimes.com/news...m-remains-mystery-to-police-investigator.html

It's a good profile on the mystery of Amy.

I also believe that no bad news is good news!

This part of the article is especially interesting to me:

This week, Byrne talked publicly for the first time about a trip that Pitzen took the week before she and her son disappeared. It was her regular annual trip to the Bahamas with a female friend from Iowa. Byrnes said the friend reported nothing unusual about the trip. Amy seemed perfectly normal when she returned May 7. It’s just another inexplicable part of this case. ​

I wonder if that trip is significant in some way, maybe setting everything in motion or triggering something that led to the next week's events? The friend says nothing unusual happened, but you never know.

 

[Cubby]

An older article I don't recall seeing posted upthread.

Of interest from the article:

Anderson, who lives alone, said she misses her daughter, who helped paint Anderson's house and clear her garden last spring, and her grandson, who would sleep at Anderson's home every other weekend.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...1118_1_timmothy-amy-fry-pitzen-alana-anderson

I don't recall previously reading Timmy stayed at his maternal grandmothers every other weekend. Unless Amy and Timmy's father both worked a weekend shift, this would have given Amy a lot of time to plan where she might hide Timmy.

Antioch, IL is very near the IL/WI borders. A lot of bodies of water near Antioch.

antioch il - Google Maps

 

[Lil Quirky]

If she was heading N.W. from Sterling she could have found her way to Palisades State Park. All of the vegetation found on her SUV is there and along the road leading there.
I'm wondering about the LDS connection?
Was she a member?
There is a church cult not far from the Palisades State Park. From Sterling to Dubuque Iowa where the cult is is about 1 hour 45 min. I have a friend that has a niece in the cult, she has not been able to see or talk to her in years. It would make a excellent hiding place but I'm sure money would have to be involved.

 

[LongTallTexan]

If she was heading N.W. from Sterling she could have found her way to Palisades State Park. All of the vegetation found on her SUV is there and along the road leading there.
I'm wondering about the LDS connection?
Was she a member?
There is a church cult not far from the Palisades State Park. From Sterling to Dubuque Iowa where the cult is is about 1 hour 45 min. I have a friend that has a niece in the cult, she has not been able to see or talk to her in years. It would make a excellent hiding place but I'm sure money would have to be involved.

I tend to think the same area/idea. Met up with someone who would harbor her child away from what SHE thought was a threat. Also just south of the state park you mention is a Jehovah's Witness church in Savanna...JW have been rumured to recruit/harbor children.

 

[blazelet]

I tend to think the same area/idea. Met up with someone who would harbor her child away from what SHE thought was a threat. Also just south of the state park you mention is a Jehovah's Witness church in Savanna...JW have been rumured to recruit/harbor children.

My wife works with a JW and I asked about their churches stance on children, custody laws, and the like. She sent me to JW published materials that address these questions, here is the link :

http://www.watchtower.org/e/19971208/article_03.htm

and a key quote :

Reasonableness includes the ability to consider the facts and negotiate a fair agreement. No parent should forget that even after divorce, the child still has two parents. The parents have divorced each other but have not divorced the child. Therefore, except in extreme circumstances, each parent should have the freedom to act as a parent when he or she has the child. Each should have the freedom to express his or her feelings and values and have the child share in the parent's lawful activities, religious or otherwise.

There are a number of other articles on the site about this. The church doesn't seem to push any unlawful ideas towards how children are treated or who gets custody but tends, rather, to respect the court.

I asked her what would happen if one parent suspected the child was in danger with another, or in a certain situation which the court deemed safe. She said they would do the same thing as any parent and protect their children.

So I don't feel like the JW church would support this kind of move, from the things they write, the things I hear their members say, or the lack of stories like this in the media.

As far as the LDS connection - as a member myself I have looked into this. It is clear that Timothy's father is not a member or at least not an active one. LDS members don't do coffee or alcohol and he does. The only connection I have seen between Amy and the LDS church is that her funeral services were held in one. But the LDS handbook of instructions makes very clear that our church buildings are open to our members or people of other faiths to hold funeral services. We are to offer the building and people to conduct services and provide food and other support if needed for free. I know in our building in Indianapolis we have had a number of funerals for people of other faiths held. We also don't designate differences between those who die naturally or from suicide or other means. Any of these reasons could have made it an attractive place to hold her funeral. It could be they have friends or family who are members and offered it as an easy solution while all the media attention and grief was going on?

I have searched facebook for people with her last name in Illinois and Iowa, to see if her family members have public profiles. Most LDS church members are pretty clear on their facebook pages that they are members. None of them were. It may be I had the wrong people, but with all the research I have done I have found no actual connection between her and the LDS church other than services were held in one. Maybe it would be worth emailing the Bishop of the Sugar Grove, IL Ward and just asking. But if she were a member, there is no infrastructure or part of the LDS belief system that warrents or supports her actions if she left Timothy with someone against the law. Again, our articles of faith prohibit breaking the law. Not to say it doesn't happen, but being a church members wouldn't make it more likely.