GUILTY IL - Willow Long, 7, Watson, 8 Sept 2013 - #4

[RhondaIL]

I do have one question though, how can it be neglect since mom left the kids with her brother, someone over 18 to babysit while she was out.

Would it be neglect if mom came home and didn't check on the kids or didn't come home until after brother was already gone to work?

I don't know, but it seems a stretch to be able to charge mom with neglect if she wasn't aware that her brother was going to kill or did kill her child.

Kinda feels like if that were the case, then anyone who goes out and leaves their child with a babysitter (even family) is taking the chance to be found neglectful if something happens. It would seem more likely to be charged with neglect if you didn't check on the kids when you came home or left them alone.

Kelly

IMO, the child neglect charge is due to leaving the children with inadequate supervision. JD has admitted he played video games online with friends in his bedroom till 10:30 p.m. and then was in the bathroom for approximately 30 minutes. Who was watching the children?

 

[MsFacetious]

IMO, the child neglect charge is due to leaving the children with inadequate supervision. JD has admitted he played video games online with friends in his bedroom till 10:30 p.m. and then was in the bathroom for approximately 30 minutes. Who was watching the children?

But how does Mom know that when she isn't there?
Is that Mom's fault that her brother didn't watch the kids?
Only if she knew he wouldn't. Which doesn't make a lot of sense.

It seems like a stretch to accuse MOM of neglect for the lack of her babysitter's attentiveness.
That'd be like charging parents with abuse when the Nanny abuses their kid. :waitasec:

 

[NC Analyzer]

As a CPS Investigator, there are many, many reasons why a call would have been prompted in this case, but the two that jump out at me, per IL policy are these....

Examples of circumstances that place the child in substantial risk of physical injury include, but are not limited to, the following:

The circumstances surrounding the death of one child provides reason to believe that another child is at real and significant risk of harm (neglect).

Inadequate Supervision:

Leaving children in the care of an inadequate or inappropriate caregiver.

http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/admincode/089/08900300ZZ9996bR.html

 

[gngr~snap]

One of the reasons I think the kids were alone was because when mom started looking for Willow, she took her son with her and was frantically looking for the baby. One of the first things I would do is find my brother and ask him where she was, had he seen her etc etc. All we know is that she grabbed the baby boy and went looking and at some point CALLED the brother and by the time she got home he was there crying unable to find Willow in the house.

I would think the JD would be the first person, if he was in the house, the mom would have looked for.

Also, what was an hour early for his shift even mean. 4am, 6 am, 10 am...who knows?

Kelly

That is the problem with her story.
Why didn't she report calling the brother first to make sure Willow wasn't with him?
The way I heard it is that she called him to come home because Willow was missing.
It's not adding up for me.
Moo

Sent from my SGH-T679 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Puzzler]

The 2 counts of neglect against CD is most likely one per child. The 1 count of abuse by JD is most likely what JD did to Willow. I'm guessing that someone heard what they thought was a fight or whatever was happening to Willow on Saturday night and knew that CD was gone that night so thus the 2 counts of neglect against her and the 1 count of abuse for JD.

You may well be right. Willow was awake enough to have defensive wounds (per autopsy info in probable cause statement). So it follows that Willow may well have been screaming. I hadn't thought about that before, or that someone might have heard sounds of violence that night. It's also possible her little brother heard Willow screaming in the night. This is just such a terrible case.

 

[Karmady]

The 2 counts of neglect against CD is most likely one per child. The 1 count of abuse by JD is most likely what JD did to Willow. I'm guessing that someone heard what they thought was a fight or whatever was happening to Willow on Saturday night and knew that CD was gone that night so thus the 2 counts of neglect against her and the 1 count of abuse for JD.

I may have missed something and haven't read every post since the uncle was charged, so apologies in advance for this question.

I'm seeing references to charges and counts of abuse and neglect wrt the mom. Are we still talking about the anonymous tipster's allegations, or has the mom actually been charged with abuse and neglect?

 

[NC Analyzer]

You may well be right. Willow was awake enough to have defensive wounds (per autopsy info in probable cause statement). So it follows that Willow may well have been screaming. I hadn't thought about that before, or that someone might have heard sounds of violence that night. It's also possible her little brother heard Willow screaming in the night. This is just such a terrible case.

If someone heard a child screaming Sat night they would have called the police. If they called CPS to report it, CPS would have told them to call the police. If they called CPS on Sunday to report a child screaming on Sat night there would have been a few questions regarding why they didn't do anything when they heard a child screaming.

 

[NC Analyzer]

I may have missed something and haven't read every post since the uncle was charged, so apologies in advance for this question.

I'm seeing references to charges and counts of abuse and neglect wrt the mom. Are we still talking about the anonymous tipster's allegations, or has the mom actually been charged with abuse and neglect?

Still allegations concerning the CPS report. Mom has not been arrested. CPS investigation can take up to 60 days (or longer) to determine if there is any merit to the allegations.

 

[scadder21]

I may have missed something and haven't read every post since the uncle was charged, so apologies in advance for this question.

I'm seeing references to charges and counts of abuse and neglect wrt the mom. Are we still talking about the anonymous tipster's allegations, or has the mom actually been charged with abuse and neglect?

I'm not sure, there are no criminal charges of neglect or abuse but DCFS decided to take the kid based on the allegations, so they obviously found something or had enough reason to remove NG from the home based on the anoymous call.

It's very possible that the person who heard possible screams Saturday Night, didn't call and only called when they found out Sunday Morning that Willow was missing.

 

[scadder21]

Still allegations concerning the CPS report. Mom has not been arrested. CPS investigation can take up to 60 days (or longer) to determine if there is any merit to the allegations.

Because you know much more about this than me, does what your saying mean DCFS can take a kid even before they find evidence of any wrongdoing on the part of the parent? Pretty much any allegation can cause the child to be taken away pending investigation?

 

[NC Analyzer]

Because you know much more about this than me, does what your saying mean DCFS can take a kid even before they find evidence of any wrongdoing on the part of the parent? Pretty much any allegation can cause the child to be taken away pending investigation?

The little brother was removed because his sister died in the home. Nothing more, nothing less at this point. That child is at risk until or unless otherwise proven.

ETA: He was REMOVED from the home because his sister was missing. He remains out of the home because his sister was murdered. Sorry.

 

[Karmady]

I'm not sure, there are no criminal charges of neglect or abuse but DCFS decided to take the kid based on the allegations, so they obviously found something or had enough reason to remove NG from the home based on the anoymous call.

It's very possible that the person who heard possible screams Saturday Night, didn't call and only called when they found out Sunday Morning that Willow was missing.

I see we have a verified CPS person here. Maybe they will know the answer to whether an anonymous tip coupled with the circumstances (death of a sibling and related charges against a resident family member) would be sufficient to remove the 3yo even without "other" evidence, whatever that might be. I'm thinking it would (or should) be sufficient.Which is not to say that other evidence wasn't found. I'm just thinking it might not have been necessary for removal based on the totality of the situation.

eta: never mind, I see that they have already answered my question. TY!

 

[NC Analyzer]

Because you know much more about this than me, does what your saying mean DCFS can take a kid even before they find evidence of any wrongdoing on the part of the parent? Pretty much any allegation can cause the child to be taken away pending investigation?

And just to expand on this a bit...if the investigator sees evidence of the allegations, yes, the child can be removed.

IE: if I walk into a home to investigate the child has bruises and isn't eating and I find a child with bruises and appears to be painfully thin/undernourished, I will remove the child, present my findings to the judge and he will uphold my findings pending the investigation.

 

[scadder21]

The little brother was removed because his sister died in the home. Nothing more, nothing less at this point. That child is at risk until or unless otherwise proven.

ETA: He was REMOVED from the home because his sister was missing. He remains out of the home because his sister was murdered. Sorry.

Would it be safe to say that just because DCFS took the kid doesn't mean the anonymous call and allegation of neglect and abuse is legit?

 

[NC Analyzer]

Would it be safe to say that just because DCFS took the kid doesn't mean the anonymous call and allegation of neglect and abuse is legit?

Not exactly sure what you are asking. The allegation of a missing (now deceased/murdered child) is already legit.

 

[scadder21]

And just to expand on this a bit...if the investigator sees evidence of the allegations, yes, the child can be removed.

IE: if I walk into a home to investigate the child has bruises and isn't eating and I find a child with bruises and appears to be painfully thin/undernourished, I will remove the child, present my findings to the judge and he will uphold my findings pending the investigation.

I'm also a little confused though about what they would use as evidence? Obviously JD abused Willow because I think murder would be considered abuse. But can they hold that against CD regarding giving the kid back when obviously the person abusing will no longer be in the home. And can they count CD leaving the kids with the brother neglect because of what the brother did? Could she not assume that a family member could babysit?

Essentially, couldn't anyone be charged with neglect if something happened to there child in the presence/care of someone else?

 

[scadder21]

Not exactly sure what you are asking. The allegation of a missing (now deceased/murdered child) is already legit.

I'm saying can CD be held accountable and not get NG back because of the abuse that JD had on Willow?

I'm guessing the neglect is leaving the kids with someone that abused them. But after the fact can she not get her child back because she happened to leave them with someone who will now be in jail.

 

[scadder21]

Can she not get NG back because it was shown she neglected the kids by not knowing that her brother would turn out to be a murder?

 

[windstorm]

But, the call was made on Sunday. Willow wasn't found until Monday evening. I think somebody had a suspicion that something was going on in the home and when they heard Willow was missing, they reported it.

Why would LE make an anonymous call to DCFS?

 

[NC Analyzer]

I'm also a little confused though about what they would use as evidence? Obviously JD abused Willow because I think murder would be considered abuse. But can they hold that against CD regarding giving the kid back when obviously the person abusing will no longer be in the home. And can they count CD leaving the kids with the brother neglect because of what the brother did? Could she not assume that a family member could babysit?

Essentially, couldn't anyone be charged with neglect if something happened to there child in the presence/care of someone else?

The CPS Investigation will look at the totality of evidence and the role the mother may or may not have played. They will also examine the safety, well being and risk factor for the little brother if he were to be returned to the mother's custody.
And yes, essentially anything that happens to your child is ultimately going to put you under the microscope. You may or may not be held responsible depending on whether a reasonable person "should have known" the possibility of whatever happened.

Let me be clear though. CPS does not remove unless there is eminent risk of harm, or potential harm, to a child.