Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #9 *Arrest*

[dm92]

I'm wondering if he is somehow going to say it was consensual and an accident (a bit like the perp in sydney loofe case). atm the defence have only admitted BC killed her, BC has pleade not guilty and may say it was all a mutual fantasy scenario that went wrong or something.

The time for that has passed. The defense would have raised that in the guilt phase. I haven't been able to see any transcripts of the trial, but they had her diary in the exhibit list, as well as google records for her. I don't know if these things were ever entered. One of the witnesses supposedly on the government list was a Chinese linguist working for the FBI who would testify about the writings of the victim. The FBI was anticipating a "blame the victim" strategy -precisely the scenario you just laid out. The linguist no doubt went through her diary, e-mails, and any other writings they had access to, and was probably going to testify that there was nothing in her writings that would suggest she had any involvement with BDSM, or any kidnapping or rape fantasies. That there was no evidence she engaged in random hookups with guys met online, or engaged in prostitution, and that there was no evidence she had communicated with BC at all. They also had a Chinese culture expert ready to testify if needed, and he was probably going to basically say that YY would have complied with BC's order to get in the car to be questioned, because of the Chinese culture of deference to authority figures (My own wife told me that she probably would have fallen for BC's ruse the first year or two that she was here in the US).

Because there was probably nothing in her writings to even slightly suggest any risky sexual behavior, and because there was so much overwhelming circumstantial evidence, video evidence, forensic evidence, and BC's own words, they probably realized a strategy like that would be ridiculous to attempt, and would only anger a jury even further.

 

[kittythehare]

According to the phone records (posted previously, & below), BC messages wife Michelle just 1 hr. and 26 mins. after abducting YY! Anything’s possible, but I have a hard time imagining that he's messaging his wife while in the middle of doing things to YY, so I think she’s already dead well within the first 90 mins.
https://www.ilcd.uscourts.gov/sites/ilcd/files/Govt Ex 34.pdf

yes.. that was weird actually and I dont understand it.
We saw those records , yet it was stated that both their phones went 'off' 2-2.30pm.. and his stayed 'off' for 5 hours.
But the phone records belie that or we're mixed up??
Her message content was retracted too..

 

[Webthrush]

yes.. that was weird actually and I dont understand it.
We saw those records , yet it was stated that both their phones went 'off' 2-2.30pm.. and his stayed 'off' for 5 hours.
But the phone records belie that or we're mixed up??
Her message content was retracted too..

yeah, I'm confused by the 5-hr.-off business, OR is it possible those message logs refer NOT to his phone (as I always thought) but to a tablet or personal computer device???

 

[AnemoneBrown]

This is an earnest question. Many universities have rules in place for faculty and staff with a "duty to report" if a student discloses thoughts of harming themselves or others. This is not optional but obligatory. Kitty, you asked "What were the therapists supposed to do?" and at many institutions they have a duty to warn. Apparently, this is true as well for psychologists: http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/mental-health-professionals-duty-to-warn.aspx.

I believe once it is reported, the student is taken to a mental health facility for safety to be examined by various professionals and prevent incidents. Do we know if his therapists reported his thoughts? Not sure if Illinois has this policy. I know all employees at University of Illinois are mandated to report suicidal ideation disclosures or sexual misconduct allegations.

According to the phone records (posted previously, & below), BC messages wife Michelle just 1 hr. and 26 mins. after abducting YY! Anything’s possible, but I have a hard time imagining that he's messaging his wife while in the middle of doing things to YY, so I think she’s already dead well within the first 90 mins.
https://www.ilcd.uscourts.gov/sites/ilcd/files/Govt Ex 34.pdf

all the coourt reporters today reported that the judge invited him to speak and asked several questions to clarify his answer..
Could he still? I don't know, I was wondering about it earlier- at what stage is it too late to speak? After the wrapping up or after the verdict or after the penalty phase?
So in order to go through the process, a trial must be held, a jury must judge and then the sentencing stage commences.
It is not possible in law to go straight to sentencing and in a dP case there are even more stringent rules to be observed.
I was trying to understand it through her family's eyes and I hit a stone wall.
Her name wasn't even mentioned once today.
As if she never existed.
There's enough proof in the exhibits that he is a complete habitual liar....
They have all that evidence against him.
They knew he had multiple sexual partners, he says he had no friends.
He was dishonest with Michelle.
She knew it before she took the stand today because the exhibit list is public.
He couldn't testify because he knew the dice was stacked against him.
It was a hopeless case.
He has shown no remorse at all.
He became animated today because he was acting a role with Michelle.
He's very very like your excellent description of Bundy.
I knew it would be bad but to thrust the fake therapy sessions in front of the jurors , when everybody knew he was either attending out of duress or it was part of his plan to kill a person in case he got caught.
What were the therapists supposed to do?
They gave him contacts for the problem he said he had. It was up to him to follow through. He could walk, talk and get around town and make appointments
He didn't present enough of a case for them to call the emergency services.
They presented this farce as if it was his testimony as if they believed it to be the truth, all the while knowing that probably every word he uttered was a lie.

They also did it because he mentioned his mother was an alcoholic.
And that may be useful for appeals which can only be based on the original trial testimony/lies/BS whatecver.. got the mental health dagnosis, his own, in there in a neat move. Horrible thing to do.

 

[kittythehare]

well, Monday and both sides will do their closings. The prosecutions will be pretty self explanatory. Just curious to see what red herring type of tomfoolery the defense will pitch.
I'd like to do a poll here. If you were on the jury..what say you?
Me: Guilty...and LWOP

hard for me because Ithink humanity should be able to control it's problems without killing people. Against the dP on principle...but as it is a thing in the US, I think he fulfils the criteria because of the way he killed her, she died horribly, in terror, that black flag in his bedroom was probably the last thing she saw apart from her searing agonising pain and anguish on every level.
And, as he is not obviously going to tell them how he disposed of her remains and because it's what her parents want... I think I'd go with dP.
It's not my moral or ethical values that count , it's theirs and hers. They reared her, they knew her, they knew her religion if that is relevant, her and their spiritual and earthly values.
He's not sorry, he's only sorry he was caught.

 

[kittythehare]

yeah, I'm confused by the 5-hr.-off business, OR is it possible those message logs refer NOT to his phone (as I always thought) but to a tablet or personal computer device???

Must be phone records.. but could be laptop or tablet. They said messaged, not emailed, but yeah.. chat apps are on every device. Could well be.

 

[kittythehare]

This is an earnest question. Many universities have rules in place for faculty and staff with a "duty to report" if a student discloses thoughts of harming themselves or others. This is not optional but obligatory. Kitty, you asked "What were the therapists supposed to do?" and at many institutions they have a duty to warn. Apparently, this is true as well for psychologists: http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/mental-health-professionals-duty-to-warn.aspx.

I believe once it is reported, the student is taken to a mental health facility for safety to be examined by various professionals and prevent incidents. Do we know if his therapists reported his thoughts? Not sure if Illinois has this policy. I know all employees at University of Illinois are mandated to report suicidal ideation disclosures or sexual misconduct allegations.

He referred to it as past tense in his second interview, I think.. something he had gotten out of his system. Was that in second appt or first?

 

[wary]

I’d vote for:

Guilty; Death Penalty

And change DP to life without parole IF he helps them find her body. If he disposed of her body so cleverly that it’s unfindable—well, that’s just his tough luck.

 

[AnemoneBrown]

He referred to it as past tense in his second interview, I think.. something he had gotten out of his system. Was that in second appt or first?

Yes, you are right. He told the therapist he had seen the error of his ways.

He referred to it as past tense in his second interview, I think.. something he had gotten out of his system. Was that in second appt or first?

 

[kittythehare]

Yes, you are right. He told the therapist he had seen the error of his ways.

yeah but was that the first or second meeting with the therapists?
He met more senior therapists at the second appointment

 

[kittythehare]

Ok here's the 5 hours I remembered from previously. And YY's phone? he could have just turned it off/removed the battery or wrapped it in tin foil or a metal crisp packet and disposed of it. He could have done the crisp packet trick with his phone too and kept it with him while he travelled to dispose of her remains.

how does the crisp packet and ti foil thingy work? I didn't know about it

 

[trunkizback]

I gotta be frank here. Some of what MZ has said and done is just plain puzzling to me The thing about asking him to sharpen the knives???Huh?
The fact she was conveniently gone the weekend he does this....
When she comes back...she says the apartment looks and SMELLS the same?? smells the same??
also ..why are the messages BC sent to her on the day of the abduction redacted?

 

[mrsobrien]

If you go to a prior thread, you'll find his Fetlife details under my name. While I was snooping there 2 years ago, it was easy to find Terra and Michelle too. I don't recall their join dates, but may have screen caps. I'll look for dates, but will not share the images themselves.

Mods...please review me in case I've crossed boundaries. I'm not positive what has become discussable.

I wonder what searches he did prior to 8th? We know he had ideas of what he was going to do from here, there and everywhere.

Had he been searching 6 months before 8th? 12 months before?

When did he join fetlife and the other sites? Prior to knowing TB? Yet he said that she introduced him to BDSM.

 

[mrsobrien]

3.... please don't be my screen shots....

2. 
   Aaron Eades‏Verified account @WCIA3Eades 1h1 hour ago
   Online conversation showed between BC and another user— BC messaged them because they posted about a “rape/kidnapping” fetish. BC was interested in playing that out with them @WCIA3
   
   0 replies3 retweets3 likes
   
3. 
   Aaron Eades‏Verified account @WCIA3Eades 1h1 hour ago
   The court sees screenshots the FBI obtained of BC’s activity on FetLife, which Huckstadt and Pollack agree is like “Facebook for kinky people” @WCIA3
   
   0 replies1 retweet1 like
   

 

[AnemoneBrown]

If you go to a prior thread, you'll find his Fetlife details under my name. While I was snooping there 2 years ago, it was easy to find Terra and Michelle too. I don't recall their join dates, but may have screen caps. I'll look for dates, but will not share the images themselves.

Mods...please review me in case I've crossed boundaries. I'm not positive what has become discussable.

I guess this would partly clarify whether what he told that Facebook woman about his sex life with the wife being boring was possibly true or not.

 

[dm92]

This is an earnest question. Many universities have rules in place for faculty and staff with a "duty to report" if a student discloses thoughts of harming themselves or others. This is not optional but obligatory. .............

I don't know of a campus-wide duty to report for things like this. The reporting requirements I know of that apply to all faculty and staff currently at UIUC is duty to report child abuse and duty to report sexual misconduct. The list of things may be expanded for mental health professionals employed by the university system.

 

[kittythehare]

3.... please don't be my screen shots....

what do you make of this turmoil we find ourselves in?

 

[dm92]

3.... please don't be my screen shots....

He was active on Reddit. I think he may have visited a UIUC reddit post I made. I made a post linking to an article about a Chinese-American forensic scientist who was going to assist on the case if needed. His records show he accessed the article the day after I posted it. I don't know if they entered his Reddit records into the exhibit. IF they did and made it available, I'll look it over......

 

[kittythehare]

If you go to a prior thread, you'll find his Fetlife details under my name. While I was snooping there 2 years ago, it was easy to find Terra and Michelle too. I don't recall their join dates, but may have screen caps. I'll look for dates, but will not share the images themselves.

Mods...please review me in case I've crossed boundaries. I'm not positive what has become discussable.

I would never have guessed until it was stated today
#experimenting... they called it...

 

[kittythehare]

3.... please don't be my screen shots....

His entire fetlife records including dM's are in the exhibits.. I tagged you when they appeared 2 or 3 or 4 days ago