Illegal/Underground Adoption Theories and leads

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On Dec 17, EJ and Logan went to court. TS and JS were there, expecting lunch with Logan and his dad to discuss adoption.

Logan got joint custody, EJ Wed to Sun, and Logan Sun to Wed. No lunch happened, EJ was POed, TS was POed. They did not expect this, in fact they tried to prevent it by falsifying another possible father.

EJ and TS had to make a new plan and they did for the next day.

When TS said EJ was picking Gabriel up to visit his dad on the 18th which was a Friday had to have been a lie. Gabriel's time with Logan wasn't until Sunday the 20th.

Then we got EJ having a GPS, highchair, possibly a portable crib, basket of clothes and a large backpack. Also one of the jammies Gabriel was wearing in the pictures, he was wearing at TS house.

I think TS was in on it, she helped with the GPS, highchair, portable crib and packed his clothes.

How could she not have known.
 
I just don't believe Tammi helped her find an underground adoptive couple/broker. Tammi wanted Gabriel for herself, why would she want to help give him up to someone else? Especially considering she called a judge after the 27th still trying to find a way to get Gabriel for herself. It's possible she could of had EJ hide Gabriel for her but I don't think that happened. I think EJ switched rooms on the 26th to get away from Tammi's calls and the fact that she knew what room she was in. She wanted to get away from Tammi because she made other plans and the baby was already going to someone else the morning of the 27th and she didn't want to break the news to Tammi. Tammi was "duped" by EJ. I think Tammi did get her in touch with people like Janet that could help her find a way to terminate Logan's rights in Texas. I think TS helped her with a fake ID to help EJ hide from Logan all along hoping Logan would sign off on the paperwork in order to get Gabriel back to AZ. Tammi's plan failed but I think one of her "underground" connections that she set EJ up with, be it the person who helped with the fake ID or Janet helped EJ find a broker who found the couple. Just my :twocents:

I respect your opinion, and if I really thought TS wanted Gabe for herself, then I would agree completely. ETA- I actually agree 50%, LOL, I am stuck in the middle.

having said that, other than the FB posts about H's new brother, I do not see her as really wanting Gabe. "that baby", all smiles, not a tear for Gabe. just does not add up. I could be wrong, and her Life has just conditioned her to easily say goodbye to people. But I would expect her to at least be sad. and say his name. KWIM?
 
Question, Could the paper trail for Gabe be non-exsistant, because in truth, "Gabe" was not adopted...another baby was(which was really Gabe). a false Birth certificate, or birth certificate for a deceased child, around the same age maybe? even a child no longer in the states?

OK, maybe to far out there. I need to go back to keeping things simple. but with the fake I.D. and searches for how to obtain certain legal documents, That can get really "deep" and complicated. makes everything seem more planned. sorry.
 
On Dec 17, EJ and Logan went to court. TS and JS were there, expecting lunch with Logan and his dad to discuss adoption.

Logan got joint custody, EJ Wed to Sun, and Logan Sun to Wed. No lunch happened, EJ was POed, TS was POed. They did not expect this, in fact they tried to prevent it by falsifying another possible father.

EJ and TS had to make a new plan and they did for the next day.

When TS said EJ was picking Gabriel up to visit his dad on the 18th which was a Friday had to have been a lie. Gabriel's time with Logan wasn't until Sunday the 20th.

Then we got EJ having a GPS, highchair, possibly a portable crib, basket of clothes and a large backpack. Also one of the jammies Gabriel was wearing in the pictures, he was wearing at TS house.

I think TS was in on it, she helped with the GPS, highchair, portable crib and packed his clothes.

How could she not have known.

I just wonder how many baby cloths were found at TS & JS's when the search warrant was issued?
No baby cloths at TPS house = planned and assisted by TPS
Baby cloths at TPS house = not planned and probably not assisted by TPS.
 
Is there a decription of the couple, hair color etc, and is it possible this was done for strait money, and I know EJ was not found with much, but What if money was deposited into an account to EJ or someone else ?
 
But even if TS wanted G for herself, in order to keep him whithout answering unanswerable questions for the rest of her days, she'd still have to have some adoption paperwork.
 
I moved our discussion on the Nov 25 to Dec 8 timeframe to a new thread here:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95892"]TayJay/EJ Met in Nov 25 - Dec 8 Timeframe? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

so we don't disturb those engaged in existing discussions.

Thanks!
BeanE
 
EJ signing legal or (falsified or illegal placement paperwork) to give impression the adoption a legal leg to stand on could serve many purposes. Schools as the baby gets older, passports and the ability to travel internationally (which may have already happened), insurance, even at a medical office. I think illegal adoptive parents would want/need something to start with. Names would obviously be changed; jones might be a good place to start looking.
 
With all of the information we have gained here about legal, illegal and gray area adoptions, it begs the question: If Baby Gabriel IS found, what takes presedence, kidnapping and transporting over state lines, and father rights, or the adoption? :(
 
I respect your opinion, and if I really thought TS wanted Gabe for herself, then I would agree completely. ETA- I actually agree 50%, LOL, I am stuck in the middle.

having said that, other than the FB posts about H's new brother, I do not see her as really wanting Gabe. "that baby", all smiles, not a tear for Gabe. just does not add up. I could be wrong, and her Life has just conditioned her to easily say goodbye to people. But I would expect her to at least be sad. and say his name. KWIM?

I think she and Jack really did want Gabriel for themselves but once there was a chance of her being in hot water over this, she dropped her want for Gabriel like a hot potato. Obviously wasn't true love, more like owning a precious doll.
 
I think she and Jack really did want Gabriel for themselves but once there was a chance of her being in hot water over this, she dropped her want for Gabriel like a hot potato. Selfish :loser:. Obviously wasn't true love, more like owning a precious doll.

And THAT is what has me stuck in the middle! It seems more like she wanted a possesion, not a baby!
 
With all of the information we have gained here about legal, illegal and gray area adoptions, it begs the question: If Baby Gabriel IS found, what takes presedence, kidnapping and transporting over state lines, and father rights, or the adoption? :(

The adoption will not take precedence, even if the "adoptives" thought it was legal. Logan has rights and as long as he fights for them, he'll get Gabe back.

I have my doubts that he'll be found at all, even if he is alive.
 
Mom... I always wondered if 'legal' papers were just signed in case Gabriel were ever found and the 'adoptive parents' were charged. They could claim they thought it was legal. Going along with that, I had to wonder if these supposed parents would either be living a lifestyle or living in a location that they could claim they did not realize a baby named Gabriel was missing.

So... those two things would somewhat cover their arses.

If Elizabeth really wanted to find Gabriel.. she would share information off the adoption papers or a copy was given to her... she has the ability to give a lot more details....finding Gabriel swiftly has always relied on her knowledge....hope she sits in Isolation forever...
 
The adoption will not take precedence, even if the "adoptives" thought it was legal. Logan has rights and as long as he fights for them, he'll get Gabe back.

I have my doubts that he'll be found at all, even if he is alive.

If Gabe is found, I would hope LE would pursue the "adoptives" with aggressive means to be 100% certain that they aren't actually kidnappers.
 
I think she and Jack really did want Gabriel for themselves but once there was a chance of her being in hot water over this, she dropped her want for Gabriel like a hot potato. Selfish :loser:. Obviously wasn't true love, more like owning a precious doll.

IMHO, JS and TPS had planned for EJ to "adopt" Gabriel out to someone THEY knew about that they knew through the gray market adoptions. Since pamphlets on becoming Foster Parents were found at TPS's during execution of the search warrant, my opinion is that they intended to get Gabriel back from the couple they planted and paid (remember JS was selling stuff on Craig's list in TN just before Gabriel went missing) who would keep Gabriel in hiding for a while until the publicity died down as a Foster child. That way they still got what TPS wanted from the start. And if they believe today that the plan went as expected, then they wouldn't cry and be upset, because they think they know he's safe. Because the one thing I can't get past is every time they are doing a media interview and someone mentions Gabriel being missing, TPS gets a smirk on her face like "yeah, yeah, if you only knew".

Just my opinion on it. :twocents:
 
If Gabe is found, I would hope LE would pursue the "adoptives" with aggressive means to be 100% certain that they aren't actually kidnappers.

They are kidnappers. They have a baby illegally. Not knowing is never a defense in the U.S. They are obligated to ensure that the baby they receive is legally available for adoption. Gabe wasn't.

Doesn't matter what an attorney or an agency or anyone else might have told them. Doesn't matter what papers they might have been given. Doesn't matter what they might have read or seen on the internet.

All U.S. citizens are obligated to ensure that we act in accordance with the law. And they haven't. They have a baby illegally. They're kidnappers.

They need to hand Gabe over immediately at the nearest police station, hospital, or fire station. They can hand him to an official at any of those places safely, and then turn and walk away.

All Logan wants is his baby back, and Gabe needs to be with his father, which is where his best interests are served.
 
They are kidnappers. They have a baby illegally. Not knowing is never a defense in the U.S. They are obligated to ensure that the baby they receive is legally available for adoption. Gabe wasn't.

Doesn't matter what an attorney or an agency or anyone else might have told them. Doesn't matter what papers they might have been given. Doesn't matter what they might have read or seen on the internet.

All U.S. citizens are obligated to ensure that we act in accordance with the law. And they haven't. They have a baby illegally. They're kidnappers.

They need to hand Gabe over immediately at the nearest police station, hospital, or fire station. They can hand him to an official at any of those places safely, and then turn and walk away.

All Logan wants is his baby back, and Gabe needs to be with his father, which is where his best interests are served.

I agree completely. To obtain a baby under these circumstances, if this is indeed what happened, would in no way appear legal (I hope) to most people. In an adoption as with most anything in life, there is a personal responsibility on the adoptive parents to do their due diligence to ensure that the child they are adopting is legally available to be adopted. The discussions surrounding illegal adoption brought on by this case have enlightened me to a world that I had no idea existed, where people will go to any lengths and treat children as a hot commodity.
 
They are kidnappers. They have a baby illegally. Not knowing is never a defense in the U.S. They are obligated to ensure that the baby they receive is legally available for adoption. Gabe wasn't.

Doesn't matter what an attorney or an agency or anyone else might have told them. Doesn't matter what papers they might have been given. Doesn't matter what they might have read or seen on the internet.

All U.S. citizens are obligated to ensure that we act in accordance with the law. And they haven't. They have a baby illegally. They're kidnappers.

They need to hand Gabe over immediately at the nearest police station, hospital, or fire station. They can hand him to an official at any of those places safely, and then turn and walk away.

All Logan wants is his baby back, and Gabe needs to be with his father, which is where his best interests are served.



You would think "normal" people would do that. But I think sometimes, when people get caught up "wanting" a baby, going through invitro, fertility treatments, etc, only to never conceive and adoption becomes their only option, they become very desperate. They could have been told the father was on drugs, drinker, abusive, worked as a stockboy, and they see themselves in a position to provide a better life and that, in their minds, makes them feel they are doing the "right" thing for the child. I am just saying, when I was trying to conceive a child and it was six years in the making and thousands upon thousands of dollars, I started understanding how people could do an "underground" adoption, or look for a child by other means. Thankfully, I did conceive (after I had abandoned all hope) and have one beautiful child. I just remember being very emotionally raw and it was hard to understand why these no-count parents could conceive so effortlessly and I couldn't...it just starts being a very emotional and very draining endeavor, especially when it starts getting into years. And when I was doing fertility treatments, there were hundreds of us at that clinic in the same predictament. You just start feeling others are being blessed and you are being punished. So, what I am saying, I am sure there are millions of people who would love to adopt a baby, and if they got as far as actually taking custody of a baby, it would be very difficult to give up that dream. And if I weren't a websleuther, I would not know who Baby Gabriel is. I have not seen it on the news or NG, because I hardly ever watch TV. So there is a possibility that whoever has Baby Gabriel, which I pray someone does, they do not know anything about anything. And I do pray that his mother didn't do something unspeakable to him and dump him in a dumpster somewhere. That thought just makes me very sad. He looks so much like her, it is hard to understand how a mother could want to give up her own child or cause harm to her own child, but I do know it happens. We see it time and time again.
 
Also, I believe in every town there are lawyers, etc, willing to place babies with families, without going through a formal adoption, i.e., meaning getting on the list and waiting for a child to become available. There are private adoptions. If you have paperwork, there are groups that can help you place your baby and find a baby.
 
Another reason I believe IMHO that TPS is expecting to get Gabriel back (as a Foster Child - hey, why not make a little money from the state on it?) is something else that has been bothering me.

TPS, if I recall correctly, admitted that she was looking up getting a new ID and SSN on her computer - and claimed it was because EJ wanted to disappear. If EJ is as intelligent as her family claims, why couldn't SHE look up that info on the computer herself? IMHO, TPS is the one who wanted EJ to disappear, so that EJ wouldn't be around by the time the dust settled and TPS had Gabriel in her own care. Because if EJ was still around, TPS couldn't take a chance that she would recognize Gabriel.

Here's my personal theory on the case from the start. It all began long before EJ came into the picture. TPS's adopted daughter started asking for a baby brother or sister. Since there were no other family members that TPS could get a baby from, she asked her adoption contact in TN to hook her up with gray market adoption groups, which the friend did.

When TPS learned how expensive it was to go that route, she started looking for other options. She joined groups (like the LDS group), posted on surrogate mom sites, etc., as well as keeping her eyes open in public for struggling young mothers that she could convince to give up her baby.

TPS found the perfect mark in EJ. TPS tried to convince EJ at the airport that if she really loved her baby but couldn't take care of him, she should give him up for adoption. Oh, and by the way, I'm looking to adopt a baby myself, so let's talk.

EJ thought it would be a way out of her troubles - her only hitch was to get LM to give up his parental rights. TPS told her that she could convince him. When TPS realized he wasn't going to be easy to convince, she had to come up with a more devious plan. TPS hammered into EJ that if LM was such an abusive boyfriend (a story EITHER started by EJ or put into EJ's head by TPS to get leverage with EJ), he would eventually hurt the baby as well, so they had to go to Plan B.

In Plan B, EJ skips town with the baby, and TPS convinces LM to sign away his rights (because the papers won't be legal anyway, don't you know) in order for EJ to bring the baby back. And since the most important thing was to keep the baby safe, Plan C was already planned as a contingency - only TPS's Plan C differed from EJ's.

EJ's Plan C was to adopt the baby out into the gray market and then disappear. After all, his safety was the most important thing, right? Oh, and since she already had contacts, TPS told EJ not to worry, that she'd set up the whole thing for her.

However, TPS's Plan C was for the baby to be "adopted" by a couple that SHE arranged to take him into hiding, so that she could ensure that TPS would end up with Gabriel at the end of it all. TPS had to make sure that EJ would never come back, and told her how to get a new identity so she could disappear and never return to see that Gabriel made his way eventually back to TPS.

When EJ got to SA, she posted that her "bubba was starting to crawl" as code to TPS that she arrived safely and was ready to start Plan B. When TPS realized that Plan B wasn't going to work with LM, she called EJ at the hotel, which the babysitter overheard. When EJ asked "what am I supposed to do, bring him back?", TPS told her that Plan C was activated and be ready to hand the baby off.

The handoff took place, but to try to keep LM from looking for Gabriel, EJ told him that she killed the baby and threw him in the garbage in the green diaper bag (TPS's story she concocted to try and avoid any searches for him). EJ deliberately left all of Gabriel's things EXCEPT the diaper bag in the room, so it would appear that her story was true. EJ then took off, with her new identity, thinking that she would never see or hear from her son again. Her downfall would be gloating on her facebook about her new life, not realizing that LE would track her down that way.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Gabriel has been handed off to the couple TPS arranged to take him. They go into hiding, waiting for some kind of sign (media signal, particular facebook posting, etc) that it was safe to bring him back. TPS goes public to try and get the story out quickly, so that it would die down quicker and she would get her baby boy back again. But things backfired, and the more TPS appeared in the media, the more her story changed, finally making her a person of interest. With being such a moral, Christian woman (as she touts herself to be), TPS figured EVERYONE would believe her and not consider that she was involved in any way.

TPS never gets upset about Gabriel being missing because SHE knows WHO has him, although not where he is. EJ doesn't even know WHO has him, since TPS set everything up, and isn't aware that the plan all along was for TPS to get Gabriel back in the end - only under a new name and identity.

So the couple who have Gabriel are in hiding, unaware of what's going on with TPS. I think if they knew that TPS has been "caught" by LE for her involvement, they would give Gabriel to someone to take to the police so that they wouldn't be found to be involved, if they can be linked to TPS. I suspect that they are just taking care of Gabriel, waiting for the sign to come from TPS to bring him back to her.

Anyway, that's my personal theory of the case. I don't know if any of it could be corroborated by sightings, timelines, etc. Just my two cents. :twocents:
 

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