Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #153 *ARREST - Richard Allen*

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O.Incandenza said:
Very interesting. So he's actually charged with what's usually called felony murder, not the default murder charge. I wonder what the reason is for that? Now I would really like to see the complaint/information.

It also doesn't look like there are any other charges right now. No tampering with a body, no sexual assault.
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I think it has never been confirmed or denied by LE if SA occurred, so it remains to be seen, but I could see that potentially falling under the umbrella of this charge, as the felonies encompassed in the clause include R*pe, child sex trafficking, etc. Which I absolutely loathe even suggesting. It could totally not be those things, it could be the "kidnapping" component for forcing them down the hill (by why force them down the hill. Ugh.). I wonder if this charge encompasses the entire scope of the crime, as opposed to separate charges for various components. I guess they could always add or amend charges too. So many unknowns. It's all so terrible. JMO
 
Figuring said:
I think it has never been confirmed or denied by LE if SA occurred, so it remains to be seen, but I could see that potentially falling under the umbrella of this charge, as the felonies encompassed in the clause include R*pe, child sex trafficking, etc. Which I absolutely loathe even suggesting. It could totally not be those things, it could be the "kidnapping" component for forcing them down the hill (by why force them down the hill. Ugh.). I wonder if this charge encompasses the entire scope of the crime, as opposed to separate charges for various components. I guess they could always add or amend charges too. So many unknowns. It's all so terrible. JMO
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We don't know he forced them down the hill.
He could just as easily have pretended he'd come across / heard a wounded animal and replied down hill when they enquired about it's location.
 
This is all going off a hunch, fed by some loose ends…

Seems to me that LE knows/has enough to make these charges stick, but they feel RA wasn’t alone. Perhaps they believe at least one other person was waiting down the hill, likely someone connected to A_S account (NOT saying this is KK). Someone a while back floated possibility that RA was monitoring A_S communication with LG and told her he saw a young guy “down the hill”.

Entirely possible RA and at least one other man were involved in what happened next.

So by keeping it open, they’re putting immense pressure on RA now to talk, probably telling him he can either remain silent and take the whole brunt of charges come trial, or he can give up what he knows now. Meanwhile they keep the tip line open and keep the investigation churning.
 
crazyrabbitlady said:
Been following since the beginning but haven’t posted. Everyone is so convinced that because scene was “bloody” that it had to be a knife….thinking outside the box here….head wounds bleed very very badly (coming from experience). He could have easily controlled them by incapacitating them by hitting them over the head with something. It could explain why there were no signs of a struggle. It could have also been a weapon that wasn’t brought with him, a decent sized limb could easily do the trick….or random debris like piece of an old metal fence post laying in the woods. A hit to the heads could cause a lot of blood, and incapacitate both pretty quickly. Just food for thought. MOO.
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Tight garroting could cause a lot of blood loss....especially if he used something like fine piano wire.
 
Mellowmelly said:
If found guilty of felony murder, would he get less of a sentence than being charged with murder ?
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To be clear, there is no “felony murder” statute in Indiana. Subsection 2 just encompasses what is normally referred to in other states as felony murder. It’s all murder, regardless. It does, however, make it easier for prosecution to seek the death penalty as it would automatically provide the aggravating element that is necessary.
 
MsBetsy said:
I thought he was already charged with 2 counts of Murder? Isn't Murder the most serious murder charge in Indiana?
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I don’t know why anyone is saying he’s charged with felony murder.
It’s murder.

Indiana Code 35-42-1-1. Murder​

Current as of: 2022 | Check for updates | Other versions
Sec. 1. A person who:

(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;
(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC § 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);
(3) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit:
(A) dealing in or manufacturing cocaine or a narcotic drug (IC § 35-48-4-1);
(B) dealing in methamphetamine (IC § 35-48-4-1.1);
(C) manufacturing methamphetamine (IC § 35-48-4-1.2);
(D) dealing in a schedule I, II, or III controlled substance (IC § 35-48-4-2);

Indiana Code 35-42-1-1. Murder » LawServer

www.lawserver.com www.lawserver.com
 
Mellowmelly said:
I would imagine it is, I just don't know which one comes with a harsher/lenient sentence, felony murder or murder ?
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I am not a lawyer, and laws can change but it appears from this link that circa 2018 in Indiana both subsections of the murder statute (murder and felony murder, if you will, to make it easier to understand - but see @m00c0w 's point above) are punishable by the death penalty, by life imprisonment, or by 45-65 years of imprisonment and a $10,000 fine: Indiana Murder Laws - FindLaw

But I could be wrong in my interpretation of this and if so I'm sure someone will chime in.
 
m00c0w said:
To be clear, there is no “felony murder” statute in Indiana. Subsection 2 just encompasses what is normally referred to in other states as felony murder. It’s all murder, regardless. It does, however, make it easier for prosecution to seek the death penalty as it would automatically provide the aggravating element that is necessary.
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Thank you, I'm in the UK so I'm not very familiar with US laws/charges.
 
kittythehare said:
We don't know he forced them down the hill.
He could just as easily have pretended he'd come across / heard a wounded animal and replied down hill when they enquired about it's location.
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Do you mean he told A & L there was a wounded animal down the hill, for them to go look? I suppose that's possible. I'm not a lawyer but I wonder if (big if) luring someone under false pretenses could be considered kidnapping. Or are you saying perhaps there was a wounded animal & his comment is being taken out of context? Asking genuinely!

And editing to add: there's definitely a clue in what the statute encompasses, & truly all the options are terrible...
 
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kittythehare said:
We don't know he forced them down the hill.
He could just as easily have pretended he'd come across / heard a wounded animal and replied down hill when they enquired about it's location.
Click to expand...

The entire tape has never been released to the public but there has to be a good reason LE said what they did. If the suspect had intended to show them a wounded animal I suppose his option would be to argue that during trial but he‘d have a very tough time explaining how it came to be the girls were killed after he directed them “down the hill”. JMO

“To have enough presence of mind to activate the video system on her cell phone to record what we believe is criminal behavior about to occur, there is no doubt in our mind that she is a hero.”
 
Figuring said:
Do you mean he told A & L there was a wounded animal down the hill, for them to go look? I suppose that's possible. I'm not a lawyer but I wonder if (big if) luring someone under false pretenses could be considered kidnapping. Or are you saying perhaps there was a wounded animal & his comment is being taken out of context? Asking genuinely!
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I said 'pretended'
Once he got them down there he had cover to carry out his plan.
 
SMK777 said:
I don’t know why anyone is saying he’s charged with felony murder.
It’s murder.

Indiana Code 35-42-1-1. Murder​

Current as of: 2022 | Check for updates | Other versions
Sec. 1. A person who:

(1) knowingly or intentionally kills another human being;
(2) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct (under IC § 35-42-4-2 before its repeal), kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human labor trafficking, promotion of human sexual trafficking, promotion of child sexual trafficking, promotion of sexual trafficking of a younger child, child sexual trafficking, or carjacking (before its repeal);
(3) kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit:
(A) dealing in or manufacturing cocaine or a narcotic drug (IC § 35-48-4-1);
(B) dealing in methamphetamine (IC § 35-48-4-1.1);
(C) manufacturing methamphetamine (IC § 35-48-4-1.2);
(D) dealing in a schedule I, II, or III controlled substance (IC § 35-48-4-2);

Indiana Code 35-42-1-1. Murder » LawServer

www.lawserver.com www.lawserver.com
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Because he's charged with 35-42-1-1(2) which is felony murder. The difference is the intent element.

Under this statute, for (1), you need to prove the mental state of "knowing or intentionally" killing another person.

For (2), there is no intent element. The law states that a person who kills another human being during the commission of the listed felonies is guilty of murder. That's what "felony murder" means.

"Felony murder" is not a separate homicide charge like manslaughter or reckless endangerment. It is murder but it does not require an intentional or knowing mental state.

Again, the point behind this is the state is saying that by engaging in these listed violent felonies, if someone dies, we are going to hold you responsible without having to prove intent. Your conduct by engaging in kidnapping or burglary or arson or child molestation is so egregious, if someone dies, you are as responsible as if you intended it.
 
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Thought: I don't think it'd be weird at all for 13/14 year old girls to frequent CVS for reasons others stated (buying snacks, candy, makeup, picking up OTC meds for older family members, etc.). Especially since it was, as far as we know, the only one in Delphi, right? However, I do wonder if Libby recognized Richard as "the weird guy from CVS" who had made predatory or otherwise inappropriate comments towards her and made her feel uncomfortable, without knowing anything else about him (i.e. his name or really anything else). I do still believe that Libby was the main target and that she knew it. JMO.
 
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