Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #153 *ARREST - Richard Allen*

[taylorss]

They can both be capital offenses. Kidnapping is an aggravating factor that would lead either charge to be punished by the death penalty.

Yes the list of “capital offenses” isn’t limited to one & in any case is more custom than policy … but it’s weird that the decision on his bail keeps changing …. isn’t it?

Or maybe it’s not? Gotta say I rarely pay any attention to this part of the proceedings!

 

[Springrain]

That would make sense to me had he not said "Guys..." before saying "down the hill".

Wasn't it unclear if he actually said "Guys, down the hill" or if it was edited together to say that? (Obviously he did say both "guys" and "down the hill" but not necessarily all at once?)

 

[Yemelyan]

Me, too. If he intended to traffick them, then I’d guess he wouldn’t have intent to kill them. But with most of the other crimes in the statute like kidnapping and child molestation, I’m not sure how he’d get away with the crime unless he intended to kill them.

I could be wrong in my understanding of the second subsection of the statute, but to my knowledge it does not require that you had any intent to kill, or to keep alive. It's just that whatever activity you did plan to subject your victims to, you should have known that it was so dangerous and likely to cause bodily harm that someone could be killed in the commission of it.

 

[BUF]

Richard Matthew Allen Delphi Killer Size, Look and voice Comparison. What do you think?

Sure looks and sounds like him to me.

Love what Gray Hughes can do!

 

[Jillyg]

Criminal deviant conduct does not apply to this case. It was repealed prior to these crimes.

In any case, I think kidnapping is by far the easiest to prove and is probably what they will go with as the adjacent felony.

Was he charged with murder or felony murder?
I didn't think felony murder was an option in Indiana anymore.

 

[kittythehare]

That would make sense to me had he not said "Guys..." before saying "down the hill".

I'll listen again, thanks.

 

[schooling]

Even BP said the family did not recognize him at CVS and they would have been on the highest alert for this guy. He didn’t look like the monster that he is.

As @MassGuy says in his tagline “The Monsters Aren't The Ones Beneath The Bed.”

jmo

That's only because most people don't look for the nuances in a mugshot. The suspect looked like a million other midwestern men.

Memorable sketches are of those with unique, exaggerated or unusual features (lazy eye, large nose, mole, scars etc). Or
combinations of certain features (small mouth + large ears, red headed + green eyes, thin eye brows + sunken cheeks).

If your perp is just average with everyday average features it's a lot harder in such a large suspect pool. If the suspect pool gets smaller...maybe someone identifies him off of either of those sketches. But he likely wouldn't be recognizable until that pool got down to a dozen or so men.

Edit: grammar and context

 

[taylorss]

I could be wrong in my understanding of the second subsection of the statute, but to my knowledge it does not require that you had any intent to kill, or to keep alive. It's just that whatever activity you did plan to subject your victims to, you should have known that it was so dangerous and likely to cause bodily harm that someone could be killed in the commission of it.

Yeah that’s basically right - he has to have had the mens rea (mindstate … intent) to commit the underlying felony - say, kidnapping. If he intended to kidnap them & a murder occurred during the kidnapping, that’s felony murder.

 

[BUF]

Denial. Normalcy bias. Ostrich effect.

And I’m not casting blame on those folks. Even if someone had a passing thought “hey, he looks a bit similar”, I think their mind would immediately rule out an association with something so awful and evil. Neighbors or coworkers probably felt bad for even thinking it for a moment. “He is such a nice guy! Couldn’t be him.” Etc. etc.

jmo

Yeah, but I do question if anyone called in the tip line on him?

 

[ms.jones]

Sooo, what do they have on him? No facts here, just speculation.

His motivation was sexual. That means rape. That means pictures/videos of the posed victims. That means souvenirs like a bra and panties. That gives us options.

1.) DNA … Since it has been over 5 years, something changed. Perhaps a tip caused LE to get a sample. Perhaps one of his relatives wanted to know more about their heritage. Oopsy!

2.) These creeps want to repeat the moment - over and over. They likely put the pictures and videos on a thumb drive in its plastic case and bury it in a dry place. Like the dirt floor of a utility shed. A metal detector or GPR scanner would find it. No bigger than a bottle cap.

3.) Ditto bra and panties. A zip-loc under the insulation in the attic.

4.) What else?

Photos that were not of the crime scene but of Libby that he had access to through his job at CVS. I believe he made copies for himself at the time the family brought in photos for the memorial/funeral service. I posted earler that perhaps the stack of thin books LE removed were the books that can be made the same day at CVS photo department.He could easily do this undetected because how busy is a CVS in a town of 3000? He could organize the photos in volumes according to his fetish needs. If his wife or another person in the house (daughter, mother, mother in law) stumbled across the photos/books containing young girls, including Libby, in possible brutal images (sorry) obtained through KAK they would be alarmed and contact the police instead of confront RA. Coming across this sort of evidence might have brought everything together in his wife's mind. I don't rifle through my husband's belongings and probably most people don't invade their spouse's privacy so he could have kept this type of paraphanalia hidden for a long time. It is also possible he could have been stealing drugs from the CVS pharmacy and his wife turned him in. This could have been an ongoing behavior problem of his and caused tension in their marriage because of his tendancy to substance abuse (known alcohol abuse). Substance abuse or self medicating is very common in people with personality disorders. LE initially came for the drugs but found so much more.

 

[Elley Mae]

Hope they keep this open for Death Penalty, he may give up others if there are. He’ll still get life.

Jmo

 

[BUF]

According to state statute, the charge of felony murder alleges a defendant, “kills another human being while committing or attempting to commit arson, burglary, child molesting, consumer product tampering, criminal deviate conduct, kidnapping, rape, robbery, human trafficking, promotion of human trafficking, sexual trafficking of a minor, or carjacking.”

Investigators have alleged that Abby and Libby were forced under threat to leave the bridge by a man whose voice and image were captured on one of the cell phone of one of the girls and their bodies were discovered several hundred feet on a piece of land along the bank of Deer Creek.

Experts tell FOX59 News that the felony murder statute provides prosecutors with leeway to charge multiple individuals with participation in a murder even if they played only a supporting role.

Carter and McLeland would not answer reporters’ questions as to whether additional suspects are being sought.

Delphi murder suspect held with no bond

EDITOR’S NOTE: Despite court records showing a judge issuing a $20 million bond for Richard Allen, both Carroll County sheriff and prosecutor state that no bond has been issued for Allen. No …

fox59.com

 

[SkylarSid]

Because he's charged with 35-42-1-1(2) which is felony murder. The difference is the intent element.

Under this statute, for (1), you need to prove the mental state of "knowing or intentionally" killing another person.

For (2), there is no intent element. The law states that a person who kills another human being during the commission of the listed felonies is guilty of murder. That's what "felony murder" means.

"Felony murder" is not a separate homicide charge like manslaughter or reckless endangerment. It is murder but it does not require an intentional or knowing mental state.

Again, the point behind this is the state is saying that by engaging in these listed violent felonies, if someone dies, we are going to hold you responsible without having to prove intent. Your conduct by engaging in kidnapping or burglary or arson or child molestation is so egregious, if someone dies, you are as responsible as if you intended it.

I would not be surprised at all to see more charges down the road. Like Carter said, nothing is off the table.

 

[kittythehare]

Wasn't it unclear if he actually said "Guys, down the hill" or if it was edited together to say that? (Obviously he did say both "guys" and "down the hill" but not necessarily all at once?)

Interesting..
The first few times I heard it, I just heard 'down hill almost like one word.
It suggested to me that he was responding to a question they had asked.

 

[m00c0w]

Yes the list of “capital offenses” isn’t limited to one & in any case is more custom than policy … but it’s weird that the decision on his bail keeps changing …. isn’t it?

Or maybe it’s not? Gotta say I rarely pay any attention to this part of the proceedings!

I’m not sure that it keeps changing. My personal belief is that it was initially set at $20m and then the prosecution entered a modification request based on some reasoning that got bond totally revoked. The $20m just came back up because it’s now visible as a comment on a 10/28 document in MyCase.

Eta: It doesn't make sense for the prosecutor to say he's being held without bond if he's not.

 

[adbou00]

I would not be surprised at all to see more charges down the road. Like Carter said, nothing is off the table.

Agreed, I could see tampering coming into play

 

[Springrain]

Interesting..
The first few times I heard it, I just heard 'down hill almost like one word.
It suggested to me that he was responding to a question they had asked.

IMO, IIRC, I think it was brought up that the clip could have been separated with saying "guys" and then "down the hill" after "guys" with some stuff in between? But I am not sure if that is correct. I also heard "down the hill" all at once so I think that is together.

 

[adbou00]

That would make sense to me had he not said "Guys..." before saying "down the hill".

Ive always wondered if they edited the guys part to give another sound or octave of his voice (meaning edited)

 

[squareandrabbet]

That's only because most people don't look for the nuances in a mugshot. The suspect looked like a million other midwestern men.

Memorable sketches are of those with unique, exaggerated or unusual features (lazy eye, large nose, mole, scars etc). Or
combinations of certain features (small mouth + large ears, red headed + green eyes, thin eye brows + sunken cheeks).

If your perp is just average with everyday average features it's a lot harder in such a large suspect pool. If the suspect pool gets smaller...maybe someone identifies him off of either of those sketches. But he likely wouldn't be recognizable until that pool got down to a dozen or so men.

Edit: grammar and context

Agreed; plus there's the nuance of 2D/flat facial pictures, vs. faces and features how they appear when they are in animation and shifting around.

 

[Diddian]

Denial. Normalcy bias. Ostrich effect.

And I’m not casting blame on those folks. Even if someone had a passing thought “hey, he looks a bit similar”, I think their mind would immediately rule out an association with something so awful and evil. Neighbors or coworkers probably felt bad for even thinking it for a moment. “He is such a nice guy! Couldn’t be him.” Etc. etc.

jmo

This reminds me of Jesse L Matthew, Jr who pled guilty to murdering Virginia Tech student Morgan Harrington in 2009 and University of Virginia student Hannah Graham in 2014 and was convicted (after taking an Alford plea) of attempted murder, abduction and sexual assault upon another woman in 2005 in Fairfield, VA. (That young woman had managed to scream and attract attention of others during her assault and was able to escape when he fled.).

Matthew had been the named suspect in two earlier assaults where he attended college and played football, but those cases were neither charged nor prosecuted. After the 2005 assault, he obtained a DMV permit to drive a cab.

Friends and coworkers had teased Matthew about his resemblance to sketches of a suspect in the Harrington case. He eventually changed his appearance and began wearing dreadlocks instead of shorter hair.