Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

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RBBM
Every. Single. Day.

This is why I place blame on the prosecutor & judge for fearmongering - they are stirring up legitimate protests by being stupidly obtuse.

Rather than something shocking being revealed, the public release of probable cause will likely be redacted to a degree that 1) we are left with many open legitimate questions & 2) the justice process will be less respected because of the letdown or 3) unredacted & still underwhelming.

Release of this public document doesn't require an argument in court. It only requires courage & faith in the system to work.

I understand KG's fear. It is based on being a legal novice & being told that it will be detrimental to the justice process for her sister. Just the opposite is true. Sunshine in the judicial process benefits every party.

Release it NOW.
JMO
I’d say LE saying “trust us, it’s him” is much more prejudicial than releasing the information they have and letting the public form their own opinions to be honest. You can go to any comment thread and see people who have decided he’s guilty just from what was said at the press conference.
 
Just my take but the judge didn’t/doesn’t have to justify the sealing until it goes to a hearing. My thought is that it was just done to kick the can down the road and postpone the inevitable. MOO of course and I’m fully prepared to be proven wrong at a later time.
The first preliminary hearing will make the evidence available to the public again, as an example, here’s a report on the transcript released during the preliminary hearing of the Kobe Bryant case, (who was not convicted).
Every state is different but I think the preliminary hearing usually must be scheduled fairly soon, 10 days after arrest is common.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/kobe-bryant-hearing-transcript
 
Can we look at the bigger picture here?

The only way - IMO - that a judge sealed this warrant is that there’s an ongoing investigation into other persons. If it were just RA, their guy’s locked up they can say what they want.

OTHER PERSONS; again not KAK as he’s locked up so they can investigate all they want, he’s going nowhere.

This reminds me of a place we went on one of the wayyy back threads about a possible wider conspiracy involving other crimes and other perps?

Again I ask: what ongoing investigation - besides RA and KAK who are already under lock and key - would inspire a judge to break precedent and seal something that should usually be public? What could be said that might hurt due process/other possible arrests or investigations when your main perp is already charged (and thus reached the evidential threshold) and ain’t going anywhere…?
I agree with this. Maybe they are buying more time to investigate someone else or a possible group of people, a CSAM ring related or perhaps indirectly related to KK? but I was kind of already thinking that if they are making this big of a deal out of it, that maybe they’d already have enough to go for whatever else it is they’re hiding and get it done. But it’s probably more just buying more time to investigate. JMO
 
How long did we have to wait to see Barry Morphew’s AA? Months.. I don’t get why everyone is so shocked, it’s not uncommon to not release the affidavits right away. Potentially giving time to the state to protect possible witnesses is my guess at why they want this sealed for awhile longer.
 
Someone mentioned being curious about why the FBI seems to have “bolted.” I share that curiosity but wonder if it has to do with the unrelated mess the FBI field office seems to find itself in these days. This news broke in summer 2021 I think. When did they start keeping a much lower profile in Delphi?
Many of the people involved in the Nassar case were also tasked with getting video from the Marathon station. According to Murder Sheet, the flash drive malfunctioned. They then took the hard drive to Indy, but forgot to take the relevant video off of the hard drive!

I take video off of many security systems for slip and fall cases. Two hours of video, the video logs, and the install file for the player take, at most 16 GB and that is with about a dozen-dozen and a half cameras. Flash drives don't just malfunction and I always have at least two with me. What the malfunction sounds like, based on my experience, is that some idiot took a brand new flash drive out of the package at the scene and didn't format it first. These video systems are NOT rocket science.
 

You can see who actually started it from clicking through.

Angela Ganote:

Libby German’s grandma is trying to stop the unsealing of the probable cause document.

She is trying to get at least 30,000 signatures to take into the courtroom on the day of the hearing.

Sharing here if that is something you would like to support. Just click the picture. 
he cited Rule 6 of Indiana Rules to access court Records, which states" in extraordinary circumstances, a Court Record that would otherwise be publicly accessible may be excluded from the Public access by a Court" if a requestor makes a written request that shows dissemination of the record will create a significant risk of substantial harm or a prejudicial effect to ongoing proceedings that cannot be avoided if the record is released
(he refers to prosecutor)
 
Here's Rule 6.

Rule 6: Excluding Other Court Records From Public Access.​

(A) In extraordinary circumstances, a Court Record that otherwise would be publicly accessible may be excluded from Public Access by a Court having jurisdiction over the record. A verified written request to prohibit Public Access to a Court Record may be made by any person affected by the release of the Court Record. The request shall demonstrate that:

(1) The public interest will be substantially served by prohibiting access;

(2) Access or dissemination of the Court Record will create a significant risk of substantial harm to the requestor, other persons or the general public; or

(3) A substantial prejudicial effect to on-going proceedings cannot be avoided without prohibiting Public Access.

When this request is made, the request and the Court Record will be rendered confidential for a reasonable period of time until the Court rules on the request.

(B) Notice and Right to Respond.

(1) The person seeking to prohibit access has the burden of providing notice to the parties and such other persons as the Court may direct.

(2) The person seeking to prohibit access shall provide proof of notice to the Court or the reason why notice could not or should not be given consistent with the requirements found in Trial Rule 65(B).

(3) A party or person to whom notice is given shall have twenty (20) days from receiving notice to respond to the request.

(C) Public Hearing.

(1) A Court may deny a request to prohibit Public Access without a hearing.

(2) If the Court does not initially deny the request, it shall post advance public notice of the hearing consistent with the notice requirements found in the Access to Public Records Act.

(3) Following public notice, the Court shall hold a hearing on the request to prohibit Public Access to a Court Record.

(D) Written Order. Following a hearing, a Court may grant a request to prohibit Public Access by a written order that:

(1) States the reasons for granting the request;

(2) Finds the requestor has demonstrated by clear and convincing evidence that any one or more of the requirements of Rule 6(A) have been satisfied;

(3) Balances the Public Access interests served by this rule and the grounds demonstrated by the requestor; and

(4) Uses the least restrictive means and duration when prohibiting access.

Commentary​

Rule 6 addresses those extraordinary circumstances in which information that is otherwise publicly accessible nonetheless is to be excluded from Public Access. This section generally incorporates a presumption of openness and requires compelling evidence to overcome this presumption, as well as public notice, a public hearing, and a written order containing specific findings. While a request made under Rule 6 treats the Court Record as confidential from the time of filing or tendering until the court rules on the request, parties should be aware that their request is not retroactive. Copies of the Court Record already may have been disseminated prior to any Rule 6 request, and action taken under Rule 6 will not affect those records.

Every word spoken in court may be transcribed. Thus, trial courts and attorneys are encouraged to discuss confidentiality concerns before presenting evidence. For example, in a case with a child witness who is protected under Rule 5(C)(2), a record could be made that initials or some other identifying information will be used if a transcript is prepared.
When a transcript is prepared in a Rule 5(A) confidential case type, the Court Reporter need not make any redactions or changes because the entire transcript will be confidential.


 
When I first heard about sealing the PCA, I thought it was to limit general public knowledge in order to secure a conviction (i.e. tainted jury pool). However the more I learn about public records, consider the charge against RA, and listen to officials, I’m convinced it’s because there is another person involved. Sealing the record is within the court’s right given the circumstances outlined below, as discussed in a podcast aired 11.2.22 (I don’t know if I’m allowed to name).

Indiana Rules of Court
Rules on Access to Court Records
Effective January 1, 2022

Indiana Rules on Access to Court Records

Rule 1: Scope and Purposes.​

(A) Pursuant to the inherent authority of the Indiana Supreme Court and pursuant to the Indiana Access to Public Records Act, this rule governs public access to, and confidentiality of, Court Records. This rule applies to everyone who creates a Court Record as defined in Rule 3(A). Except as otherwise provided by this rule, access to Court Records shall be governed by the Indiana Access to Public Records Act.

Rule 4: General Access Rule.​

(A) A Court Record is accessible to the public except as provided in Rule 5.

Rule 5: Records Excluded From Public Access.​

(A) Court Records That Shall Be Excluded From Public Access In Entirety. The following shall be excluded from Public Access and no notice of exclusion from Public Access is required:

(1) Entire cases where all Court Records are declared confidential by statute or other court rule;

(2) Entire cases where all Court Records are sealed in accordance with the Access to Public Records Act;

(3) Entire cases where all Court Records are excluded from Public Access by specific Court order entered in accordance with Rule 6;

Rule 6: Excluding Other Court Records From Public Access.​

(A) In extraordinary circumstances, a Court Record that otherwise would be publicly accessible may be excluded from Public Access by a Court having jurisdiction over the record. A verified written request to prohibit Public Access to a Court Record may be made by any person affected by the release of the Court Record. The request shall demonstrate that:

(1) The public interest will be substantially served by prohibiting access;

(2) Access or dissemination of the Court Record will create a significant risk of substantial harm to the requestor, other persons or the general public; or

(3) A substantial prejudicial effect to on-going proceedings cannot be avoided without prohibiting Public Access.

When this request is made, the request and the Court Record will be rendered confidential for a reasonable period of time until the Court rules on the request.
Additionally, regarding a public hearing:

(C) Public Hearing.

(1) A Court may deny a request to prohibit Public Access without a hearing.

(2) If the Court does not initially deny the request, it shall post advance public notice of the hearing consistent with the notice requirements found in the Access to Public Records Act.

(3) Following public notice, the Court shall hold a hearing on the request to prohibit Public Access to a Court Record.

(D) Written Order. Following a hearing, a Court may grant a request to prohibit Public Access by a written order that:

(1) States the reasons for granting the request;

(2) Finds the requestor has demonstrated by clear and convincing evidence that any one or more of the requirements of Rule 6(A) have been satisfied;

(3) Balances the Public Access interests served by this rule and the grounds demonstrated by the requestor; and

(4) Uses the least restrictive means and duration when prohibiting access.

IMO, there are extraordinary circumstances that cannot be revealed because the investigation is ongoing. This arrest had to be made, but does not complete the story of what happened that fateful day.
 
I hope RA gets a defense attorney who looks at the evidence, tells him he’s toast and we get a confession and no trial.
I suspect the man will feel the need to confront the system. Some people are so self-justified they simply have to attack the process. Guilt isn't a factor in their thinking. It's an animal-level reaction to being caught. Rationally, you'd expect remorse and confession, but the animal-level reaction is below this level of thinking. When people use the term "predator," just think of something like an alligator. There is no remorse, and if you catch it the animal will attack. This is my suspicion.
 
It's just my opinion, but I think he selected somewhere he knew well that he thought was a "good" location. No CCTV, relatively quiet, no real way of escape once isolated at the other side of the bridge, accessible via the creek from right by his house to enable him to get in and out of the area with little chance of being spotted, a well hidden location to do whatever once across the creek and local so he knew school was out that day but that most adults would be at work -It'd be harder to find that age of victim on their own in a rural area at night.

I think he wanted to be in, out and back home with his family for dinner. Why he then decided to insert himself as a witness as suggested in MSM I'm unsure, unless that was all part of the thrill.
The crime scene would only be partially visible from the bridge. There would also be no way anybody was walking across that at night due to safety reasons. By the time friends and family did their search, daylight would have been gone.
 
Someone mentioned being curious about why the FBI seems to have “bolted.” I share that curiosity but wonder if it has to do with the unrelated mess the FBI field office seems to find itself in these days. This news broke in summer 2021 I think. When did they start keeping a much lower profile in Delphi?
Some of the FBI that were involve with Delphi & Flora fire at the beginning retired. One left the field.
 
I'm going to rely on LE's judgement in this case. They have a reason for keeping the details sealed for now. Let's support them in increasing the odds of getting a valid conviction.

Just a random voice from the grand void.
 
My guess is he had a more recent victim and his dna matched the double murder . They wouldn’t take a car from a 7 year murder . He must of killer again and they took the car for his most recent crime
One time I saw a true crime show where years later, the car had been sold like 3 times, they took the car completely apart & found DNA of the victim! I personally think RA may have done other crimes but old DNA is still a possibility imo!
 
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I'm going to rely on LE's judgement in this case. They have a reason for keeping the details sealed for now. Let's support them in increasing the odds of getting a valid conviction.

Just a random voice from the grand void.
I’m not caught up and not sure if it was mentioned or allowed here but Becky Patty has a change.org petition to keep the docs sealed, if anyone is interested in supporting the family….
 
Some of the FBI that were involve with Delphi & Flora fire at the beginning retired. One left the field.
That shouldn't have prevented them from being replaced with other agents.
 
Can we look at the bigger picture here?

The only way - IMO - that a judge sealed this warrant is that there’s an ongoing investigation into other persons. If it were just RA, their guy’s locked up they can say what they want.

OTHER PERSONS; again not KAK as he’s locked up so they can investigate all they want, he’s going nowhere.

This reminds me of a place we went on one of the wayyy back threads about a possible wider conspiracy involving other crimes and other perps?

Again I ask: what ongoing investigation - besides RA and KAK who are already under lock and key - would inspire a judge to break precedent and seal something that should usually be public? What could be said that might hurt due process/other possible arrests or investigations when your main perp is already charged (and thus reached the evidential threshold) and ain’t going anywhere…?
While this is certainly possible, after seeing the judge's email & order, I think it's also quite possible that he just panicked and sealed everything he could as soon as he got the case.

Sealing the complaint and keeping the case completely unlisted was way more unusual than just sealing the arrest warrant, and it doesn't look like he had any particularly good reason for that. The arrest warrant will contain a lot of the details of the crime. It's release will cause pain to the victims' families and will fuel the media storm around the case. I can totally see this particular judge having sealed it purely because of that.
 
Disturbing about the case? I hate to say it but there’s no shortage of really disturbing details in criminal cases yet they’re still not handled like this. It’s just so peculiar.

Very true. I have been thinking that maybe images of/videos of/encounter with other victims who are yet unidentified. If this is the case, then I could see wanting to keep a very tight lid on the information involved in making this arrest. Materials found and removed in the monster's home seems like way more than what he would have taken from the girls after the murder. My gut is telling me that the story is going to be sadder and sadder because other survivors or victims are going to be found--- some of whom might have been too young to remember or too traumatized to say what happened out loud.

I also can't see that they would be able to get evidence from a car this many years out. There is something new---activity on other sites, cruising in areas other than Delphi, amassed photos, victims that have yet to be identified or activities that would lead to evidence purging by others he may have been in contact with. I am sure we will know soon.
 
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Just thinking about the sealing and a couple things I haven’t seen discussed. Forgive my novice questions.

1. Could there be other victims discussed somehow that haven’t been identified or contacted? I know there are no child …. Charges against RA but could that be mentioned in the PC with other victims? (Edited as I see discussed above now)

2. methods- could methods be identified or even honeypot sites that are currently in use to identify other perpetrators?

3. could it have just been poorly written and included too much detail?
 
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