Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #154 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[steeltowngirl]

In my opinion, all the talk about delays and RA getting an attorney is premature. Continuances have to be expected and are the norm. Eventually, he will be appointed/hire an attorney, they aren't moving ahead without him being represented.

Consider that KAK has been in custody for over 2 yrs, and might go to trial in Jan '23. It would seem that the prosecutor hasn't been preparing for the past 2 years as they just now dropped 5 iffy charges.

The below Indiana murder defendant was found guilty by a jury, but only after almost 2 years of delays. The courts are still backlogged and still affected by Covid. Also, note postponed for negotiations but ended up in trial.

Williams' trial has been postponed multiple times, including to allow for negotiations between the defense and prosecutors. State of Indiana v. JOHN LOREN WILLIAMS 64D02-2007-MR-005252 Court Porter Superior Court 2 Case Type MR - Murder Filed 07/14/2020 Status 04/27/2022, Decided Charges 35-42-1-1(2): Murder,

It may be too soon to be overly concerned about RA obtaining counsel - surely he will. But it seems a fair item to discuss.

What topics would you suggest be discussed, while we wait?

 

[Dotta]

It took IMHO a lot of time and discussions with LE and probably his attorney to come clean.

I guess there is sooo much action "behind the scene" that the public is oblivious of

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Keep in mind the 'checked himself into an institution' is a rumour. Many people on many sites are speculating but no one has any confirmation or evidence of this.

thanks for stating this. We cannot have this detail sticking as fact.

 

[Dotta]

What topics would you suggest be discussed, while we wait?

I guess we might suggest RA's (future) lawyer to convince his client to get rid of this hideous beard.

I swear any time I look at his photo Im convinced I see a goat

 

[AngTxGal]

I think a huge indicator that RA wasn't involved in the KK thing is his seemingly unawareness of her cell phone. Imo

If he had known, he'd have known about her habit of live streaming. He may not have picked her at random had he known either. This lends to this being a random chance and not a previous known. Imo

If he had known how involved with her phone she was, i think he may have been hyper aware that she had one. Moo.

Of course also..he could have tried to find it and not been successful.

That is a great point, RA left Libby’s phone at the scene. So, he likely was not in contact with Libby’s online profile.
You would think he saw Libby taking pictures. And I’m guessing Libby turned on the video and then put the phone in her pocket while it kept recording audio. He may have thought she took a photo, or not looked up because he was focusing on walking on the bridge.
I’m guessing Libby tossed the phone from her pocket, so if RA looked on her it wasn’t there.
RA may have found out the girls were at the bridge from KK or an online chat he watched
It is possible RA in his own demented SA fantasy ego state is not very observant and so he could not find the phone.
Kudos to Libby, her thought and bravery is so impressive, it makes the drive to get her and Abby justice all the more heated- she tried her best
Lots of questions for certain

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

How else did RA show prepared? Was it a crime of opportunity or were they targets? Did he often show up prepared having his acts planned out- just waiting?

If there is no connection between KK and RA- How did RA know to be prepared? Were the girls targets or did he often show up prepared waiting for an opportunity?

RA isn't any different than other opportunistic killers who disappear girls and women, who find victims by walking trails, looking for joggers early in the morning, etc.

 

[Ozoner]

Actually, this is a fundamental question. If they can't release a redacted PC then what's the real reason they are holding back?

Ultimately, if he is guilty and there is a co-conspirator, the co-conspirator knows RA has been arrested and probably know the evidence better than the cops. The fact of his arrest would be the only tipoff they'd need.

Perhaps I've spent too much time in a world where people classify documents to hide embarrassing secrets (think Pentagon Papers) but I would not put it past them to hide the PC because it's thin

I think you are missing the point of the rhetorical flourish. I am saying, in response to a comment specifically about the judge signing off on the PC and having a good reason, that we do not know what said good reason is.

Side note: Have you ever heard that phrase about a prosecutor being able to indict a ham sandwich?

Nonetheless, it's the cops job, the prosecutor's job, the judge's job and eventually the jury's job and then the job of appeallate courts. The defendant gets a swing at it and so do their attorneys. The press and the public get a vote -- although outside the judicial system -- too

First let me thank you for all of the civics lessons! You have me waxing nostalgic for my junior year in high school.

I would like to see the probable cause affidavit released due to insatiable curiosity, but it is difficult to argue that the public has a compelling need to see it immediately. It will be public eventually; of that there is no doubt.

I don't know what the reason is for sealing the affidavit, but I can think of a few legitimate reasons.

First of all, it will be very difficult to seat a jury for this case. This is basically the crime of the century in Indiana. Releasing the PCA right now would lead to even even more news coverage and would taint the jury pool even further. It is highly likely that all of the publicity surrounding this case will lead to a change of venue, but perhaps the prosecution is hoping to avoid that.

Second, the PCA may contain the names of people who have provided incriminating information against RA, and even if those names are redacted, it is possible that their identities would be easy enough to figure out based on the nature of the information provided. The prosecutors may wish to protect those witnesses from being harassed by the media and by citizen-sleuths.

Third, LE has stated that several signatures were present at the crime scene. There may be information about those signatures in the PCA, and that information might connect RA to other murders that are still being investigated. RA seems to have the motivations of a serial killer, and he would be an extreme outlier if he started his career with a double murder at age 45.

In short, sealing the PCA was probably motivated by a desire to prevent the media from wreaking havoc with the adjudication of this case or other cases.

 

[TL4S]

RA isn't any different than other opportunistic killers who disappear girls and women, who find victims by walking trails, looking for joggers early in the morning, etc.

Right. Some killers disappear girls and women at random, while others are known to them, or stalking them, or sex trafficking them, or catfishing them, or retaliating against them, etc. We don't yet know how this crime went down.

 

[*Verdigris]

That is a great point, RA left Libby’s phone at the scene. So, he likely was not in contact with Libby’s online profile.
You would think he saw Libby taking pictures. And I’m guessing Libby turned on the video and then put the phone in her pocket while it kept recording audio. He may have thought she took a photo, or not looked up because he was focusing on walking on the bridge.
I’m guessing Libby tossed the phone from her pocket, so if RA looked on her it wasn’t there.
RA may have found out the girls were at the bridge from KK or an online chat he watched
It is possible RA in his own demented SA fantasy ego state is not very observant and so he could not find the phone.
Kudos to Libby, her thought and bravery is so impressive, it makes the drive to get her and Abby justice all the more heated- she tried her best
Lots of questions for certain

I had always imagined that BG (now, RA) was aware of her phone, but that it had been dropped/flung during the crime.
I think perhaps he searched for her phone, but couldn't find it amongst the leaves - and maybe he had to give up looking for it because of the fairly quick search party that set out to find Abby and Libby.

That always gave me just a tiny bit of satisfaction to imagine BG frantically searching for her phone, but not being able to find it.

jmoo

 

[CSIDreamer]

I've been reading multiple threads here on WS, including the Ashley Bush case (absolutely horrifying) & even the two defendants in the Ashley Bush case have attorneys who are commenting (well, really not commenting or not returning media calls).

I'm just totally floored & astounded that RA has not had an attorney assigned even though he apparently indicated he would get one on his own. This is such a high-profile case, I think it would be in his best interest as well as the court's best interest to assign him an attorney, even temporarily, who could be going through the info from day one, informing him of his possible next steps, etc. If/when RA hires his own attorney, the court-appointed one could then cede to the new one. MOO.

I am assuming that could be legally done. (I could be totally wrong & would welcome clarification on the law regarding this.) If so, why, why, why hasn't it been done for a high-profile case where emotions will be running high for the entire time? If RA is guilty, I don't want him to walk away on a technicality of not having had proper representation, especially at the beginning.

The fact that he doesn't yet have an attorney just blows my mind.

MOO.

Anyone else find it interesting how his 20 days to get legal representation closely coincides with the November 22 hearing regarding unsealing the PCA?

 

[CSIDreamer]

This is verified info we have on RA regarding any type of hospital. This happened two years PRIOR to the murders.

Deputies responded to Delphi suspect’s home for domestic issue to ‘keep the peace’

MEXICO, Ind. — The Carroll County Sheriff’s Office confirmed that deputies were sent to Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen’s home in 2015 for a “domestic” incident. The she…

www.google.com

 

[AngTxGal]

RA isn't any different than other opportunistic killers who disappear girls and women, who find victims by walking trails, looking for joggers early in the morning, etc.

RA is very different than the common SA murderer who is disorganized
His age is older, he lives nearby, he has a wife and child, and he works at a visible job at a pharmacy in a very small town, and so far we have not heard of any criminal history, or even accusations from any female.
Together those facts make him way outside the norm for SA murderer, that is why he walked free for five years in a community of less than 3000 people

These facts speak of a highly organized and careful planner who knows the area well, maybe killed them quickly using a gun with silencer or knife?
So does a family man visit the bridge with his kill kit often? Or does he stash it in the woods on the way and pick it up when he is inclined?

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Right. Some killers disappear girls and women at random, while others are known to them, or stalking them, or sex trafficking them, or catfishing them, or retaliating against them, etc. We don't yet know how this crime went down.

The question was how would he know to be ready for the victims if he didn't know ahead of time they would be there, as if killers don't walk about with the weapons they will use in hopes of finding a victim. There is no evidence that KAK knew they would be on the trail.
There is zero indication RA knew the victims, catfished them or had something to "revenge". They were sexually motivated murders.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Could RA be deliberately delaying proceedings by saying he's going to get his own council but not looking or agreeing to proposed defenders ?

Kinda doubt it.
He has 20 days to hire his own attorney regardless of what his intentions are.

JMO

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23262780/order-issued-1.pdf

 

[Seenit]

Whoa! What?!
I decided this morning to check in with Websleuths. Haven’t been on recently. I cannot believe I am reading they have arrested a suspect! This case has haunted me since day one. I pray justice will be served….hopefully quickly…and harshly.

 

[Nobody_special]

Colorado: P. Frazee
Was wearing a bulletproof vest.
Colorado: B. Morphew
There seemed to be a bulletproof vest underneath his shirt one time.

I think it’s more common in federal cases.
Oklahoma City bombers (Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols)
Olympic bomber (Eric Rudolph)
Dylan Roof (Charlestown church shooter)

I know there have been many others in high-profile cases. Surprisingly, I couldn’t find a picture of the Boston Marathon bomber in a vest. I know I’ve also seen pictures of Gary Ridgway (not federal) in one but couldn’t find any in a cursory glance.

They obviously don’t want someone pulling a Jack Ruby on RA, which makes sense.

 

[ExitMusic]

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but SA is just rumored, correct? What if he murdered them because they were taking photos of him and maybe laughing which he took as making fun of him and attacked them because of that? I feel like people are mentioning sexually motivated as a matter of fact so I’m just thinking outside that box. MOO

 

[Mellowmelly]

Doug carter went straight to the scene of the flora fire on hearing the news of the arrest. Could there be a connaction with flora and delphi that the public dont know about ?

 

[TL4S]

@ExitMusic, you are correct. We don't know if there was a SA, or if it was sexually motivated. Of course, because of the nature of this case, I think it's highly likely there was a sexual component, but I also remember what the original Carroll Co. Prosecutor, RI, said:

"But on the other hand, the crime is so… it’s impossible to think of a motivation for the crime. Generally [in the past] when you have a murder in rural Indiana, this is Carroll County, the motive was obvious, the suspect was obvious. And in this case the two girls were murdered, and as I’ve told people the crime scene is very unusual. It’s all very strange."

Dr. Oz Delphi Murders Video: Robert Ives Transcript - CrimeLights

 

[CSIDreamer]

I've done my morning search on Vinelink, mycase, and the IDOC locator. Nothing new to report with regards to RA.