Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

[mrjitty]

How can a proper defense in a capital case be made in a month? The time is for him, the prosecution is pretty much ready to go.

To me it is quite revealing that the accused himself has not raged against his imprisonment.

Why did he not even get a lawyer for weeks to learn what was in the AA?

If I was falsely locked up my family would be all over that. I get not every accused is sophisticated until they get quality counsel but it is notable how little urgency there is

Indeed counsel himself was talking more of the steep learning curve with the case. Notice also the case was weak. He didn’t say there was no evidence.

 

[Charlot123]

I think it is open to debate just what 'down the hill' means. The girls were going to the park to meet another person, we wonder how that person would have controlled both girls at once. Maybe the girls were accepting instruction of where to go instead of them being 'kidnapped' like has been often claimed. And then things went bad.

I think it is a very interesting hypothesis. After all, I can’t believe that Libby would not use her cellphone to call 911 or even connect to her FB to do live recording. I can’t believe that neither cried when in danger.

 

[The Observer]

To me it is quite revealing that the accused himself has not raged against his imprisonment.

Why did he not even get a lawyer for weeks to learn what was in the AA?

If I was falsely locked up my family would be all over that. I get not every accused is sophisticated until they get quality counsel but it is notable how little urgency there is

Indeed counsel himself was talking more of the steep learning curve with the case. Notice also the case was weak. He didn’t say there was no evidence.

BBM. He was formally charged on Friday Oct 28th *weekend* Mon Oct 31 - Friday Nov 4th *weekend* Letter requesting public defender was dated Wednesday the 9th Nov. So really 7 business days where I would assume his wife/famly were in shock and scrambling to call attorneys, realising the costs and wondering how they'd afford a retainer, etc... I believe RA and family were likely out of their depth.

 

[The Observer]

I think it is a very interesting hypothesis. After all, I can’t believe that Libby would not use her cellphone to call 911 or even connect to her FB to do live recording. I can’t believe that neither cried when in danger.

I've always assumed the killer was aiming a weapon at them, at the time the down the hill is heard.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Lead defence attorney, Brad Rozzi [pronounced Rosy] responding to media after the hearing:

A. … time with them, really meaningful time. So that’s just not something I can comment on.

Q. What do you think about the prosecutor saying they have good reason to believe that he’s not the only one involved in this?
A. Yeah. Those comments certainly caught my ear, but you know, again, it’s too early to comment on those kind of things just because we don’t really have enough information and I don’t think that’s professional and prudent to just start, you know, throwing thoughts around without really having the discovery in its entirety.

Q. Does the PC document reflect that?
A. I’m not gonna talk about that. That’s exactly what we were just dealing with.
…"

Richard Allen defense attorneys on what happened inside Carroll County Courthouse

A measured response and one I would expect from a seasoned attorney.

 

[Charlot123]

I've always assumed the killer was aiming a weapon at them, at the time the down the hill is heard.

I honestly don’t know at this point. Whether a complex case, or a simple one but of the kind that no one wants to discuss, I have capitulated long ago. However, if RA has no known prior history of sexually indiscriminate behavior, ever, then maybe, the case is not about pedophilia, or at least, not RA’s one. It is interesting that no one ever described his other traits. Is he greedy, for example? How much would he risk for money?

 

[mrjitty]

Lead defence attorney, Brad Rozzi [pronounced Rosy] responding to media after the hearing:

A. … time with them, really meaningful time. So that’s just not something I can comment on.

Q. What do you think about the prosecutor saying they have good reason to believe that he’s not the only one involved in this?
A. Yeah. Those comments certainly caught my ear, but you know, again, it’s too early to comment on those kind of things just because we don’t really have enough information and I don’t think that’s professional and prudent to just start, you know, throwing thoughts around without really having the discovery in its entirety.

Q. Does the PC document reflect that?
A. I’m not gonna talk about that. That’s exactly what we were just dealing with.
…"

Richard Allen defense attorneys on what happened inside Carroll County Courthouse

A measured response and one I would expect from a seasoned attorney.

I like Rozzi so far - he spoke in a very conversational, professional way, with none of the hysteria and conspiracy we see so often in these kinds of cases

 

[mrjitty]

BBM. He was formally charged on Friday Oct 28th *weekend* Mon Oct 31 - Friday Nov 4th *weekend* Letter requesting public defender was dated Wednesday the 9th Nov. So really 7 business days where I would assume his wife/famly were in shock and scrambling to call attorneys, realising the costs and wondering how they'd afford a retainer, etc... I believe RA and family were likely out of their depth.

Agree this might be the explanation for what happened - but I also query whether the trust was there.

If I was falsely in jail, my priority would be to get any lawyer, including a free one, to get me the hell out of jail today!

One wonders if the accused was happy enough not to know the case against him

02c

 

[The Observer]

I honestly don’t know at this point. Whether a complex case, or a simple one but of the kind that no one wants to discuss, I have capitulated long ago. However, if RA has no known prior history of sexually indiscriminate behavior, ever, then maybe, the case is not about pedophilia, or at least, not RA’s one. It is interesting that no one ever described his other traits. Is he greedy, for example? How much would he risk for money?

BBM. Can you elaborate?

 

[mrjitty]

Now, I don't think that necessarily means that Allen wasn't the actual killer. It's all about what the DA can prove, and he may just not feel confident that they prove that Allen committed the murders himself, even though they believe he did. If that's the case, felony murder is 100% the safer charge.

I do think what we're seeing from the prosecution speaks to a certain lack of clarity of exactly how the crime happened though. But that may not end up being legally important. If they have rock solid evidence that RA was there when it happened, it will be hard for him to avoid a conviction IMO.

RSBM

I 100% agree with this.

It's natural for us to get very focussed on the theory of the case. But a prosecutor is focussed on what can be proved and these codifications make life easier evidentially.

The charge likely points to what the evidence proves.

 

[mrjitty]

IMO. Allen's defense should demand a speedy trial, and request a fast bail hearing--not one three months away!! Just my opinion...

Does the fact they haven't done that suggest anything?

 

[mrjitty]

Correct. It's usually on the search warrant but who knows ... proescutors often makes mistakes, as they did -- and the judge did -- with the sealing of the PC

I believe this has to be completed?

i.e Law Enforcement must report to the Court an inventory of what was seized?

 

[asyousay]

I think it is a very interesting hypothesis. After all, I can’t believe that Libby would not use her cellphone to call 911 or even connect to her FB to do live recording. I can’t believe that neither cried when in danger.

Bad reception solves that mystery imo


How do you know they didn’t cry?

 

[asyousay]

Agree this might be the explanation for what happened - but I also query whether the trust was there.

If I was falsely in jail, my priority would be to get any lawyer, including a free one, to get me the hell out of jail today!

One wonders if the accused was happy enough not to know the case against him

02c

If I was accused of such serious matters I wouldn’t want my defense team to rush things and miss things.


It’s better to stay put where he is safe and to make sure his team do the best job possible and no doubt that takes time IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

If I was accused of such serious matters I wouldn’t want my defense team to rush things and miss things.


It’s better to stay put where he is safe and to make sure his team do the best job possible and no doubt that takes time IMO.

There is no way I would settle even one day of being falsely charged with a horrific double murder without protesting my innocence!

For instance, I would quickly guess that my arrest was based on something in my house. But I know there is nothing in my house that could implicate me. So I would want to see the AA immediately, so I can at least attempt to clear up this misunderstanding?

Sure if I read the AA and see it is DNA evidence, then i am resigned to a contested hearing because arguing about that kind of evidence is going to be difficult. But I surely would not sit in jail for over a week wondering???

Obviously with an unsophisticated, non-wealthy accused, one can't jump to conclusions, but I do wonder out loud if RA was happy enough with everyone not knowing what was found.

 

[JudgeJudi]

If I was falsely in jail, my priority would be to get any lawyer, including a free one, to get me the hell out of jail today!

One wonders if the accused was happy enough not to know the case against him

I agree. I also think RA is more than a little naive. He's been charged with the murder of 2 young girls who live in his own very small town and everyone and his dog knew about it, including him. Who in their right mind would sit on their hands for even a week? He wouldn't have been earning much at CVS. I would have thought that Blind Freddy would have known that he couldn't afford anything other than a PD.

He may not have known the case against him, but he certainly knew what the charges were. I'd be ringing for a lawyer immediately.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Does the fact they haven't done that suggest anything?

No doubt they're waiting until they know more.

 

[JudgeJudi]

For instance, I would quickly guess that my arrest was based on something in my house. But I know there is nothing in my house that could implicate me. So I would want to see the AA immediately, so I can at least attempt to clear up this misunderstanding?

RSBM

They searched his house for 12 hours and “They were definitely snooping around a lot at the fire pit and at the backyard,” a neighbor said, who described “lots of flashlights, lots of pictures, lots of sifting.” That suggests to me they were looking at him as being the murderer, not just an "actor" in this crime. It's such a complex case and a classic whodunnit.

 

[Nikynoo]

To me it is quite revealing that the accused himself has not raged against his imprisonment.

Why did he not even get a lawyer for weeks to learn what was in the AA?

If I was falsely locked up my family would be all over that. I get not every accused is sophisticated until they get quality counsel but it is notable how little urgency there is

Indeed counsel himself was talking more of the steep learning curve with the case. Notice also the case was weak. He didn’t say there was no evidence.

Conversely, if I had been responsible for this crime (or any crime), I would have 'lawyered up' immediately and possibly would have even had a lawyer on retainer (if affordable).

 

[LammyTheRobot]

I mean after seeing that judges subsequent behavior it's baffling to me JMo how people can have so much confidence in this.

Quite. I mean theoretically can you imagine the immense pressure on Judge Diener that day when DA, ISP and Carroll County’s “finest” rock up and ask for him to sign the PCA off. Not saying he had his hand twisted that far, but the pressure would have been immense.

As they said on Murder Sheet, the defence claimed in court on Tuesday that the correct procedure in the sealing motion was not followed. It would have been procedure for the DA to swear an oath when requesting the seal. He did not do that, or was not asked to do that, for some reason, possibly speaking to the pressure on Judge Diener that day, idk. JMO.