Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #158

[weather_lady]

We need a laundry expert. How long would blood stay on clothing, like how many washes? Would laundry additives deteriorate DNA? I’m honestly shocked that he kept he jacket. And possibly the jeans. If LE can find the girls DNA on his clothing or car, he is dunzo.

I think he held onto them as souvenirs.

 

[photographer4]

I’m back from my short self- imposed timeout so I’m sure I missed a lot. Those clothes are so common the defense is going to mock that part mercilessly. Any word on the brown Fanny pack/kill kit/shirttail?
Btw, OT, I just read Unmasked by Paul Holes. It’s not about this case at all — a lot about Golden State Killer and DNA/genealogy progress in crime solving — but many insights about different types of killers. Since I’ve never studied up like many of you have or followed a lot of cases, I learned a lot. Good book.

A Fanny pack of (I forget they worded it but quality material is the gist) was mentioned I. The RL warrant and it noted he owned one.

 

[Soulmagent]

There is nowhere to hide on that road, it's mostly open field

I cant image having just murdered 2 girls and not at least trying to lay down to hide yourself covered in blood, Not that it didnt happen ,but if it did maybe it was meant to apear as soming different. I dont know but it is odd, the whole him being everywhere so fast ,lead me to think two men were dressed the same and roaming different parts or at least having me considering different things. Like one of the witnesses might have looked like a witness back then to the bridge man but might be a additional suspect since the officers notes are being reveiwed and other possible evidence they have on the still under investigation suspect. How did they know to search the creek again and is the DNA that link him possiblely from a pet? I dunno but lots of clues inbedded in the LE statement and pressers over the time ,that i am looking at from a different view but I do believe they have the correct person .

 

[iamnotagolem]

We need a laundry expert. How long would blood stay on clothing, like how many washes? Would laundry additives deteriorate DNA? I’m honestly shocked that he kept the jacket. And possibly the jeans. If LE can find the girls DNA on his clothing or car, he is dunzo.

I don’t know how long dna would stay, but if he washed the clothes immediately in cold water, the stains likely wouldn’t be visible.

 

[MistyWaters]

RSBM

I wonder if it is not as insane as we think?

If you take the population of all vulnerable females being catfished or some variant, is there not a reasonable chance that one of those females somewhere in America would be murdered?

So it seems too coincidental in the context of this case, but in the total population of this crime, it is bound to happen sooner or later?

IMO risk of anyone being catfished increases with the number of online strangers one communicates with.

So the odds of a murder victim being associated with a catfisher, crimes totally unrelated, substantially decrease when the victim is also an avid SM user.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

So why would a guy like RA - married, kid, decent enough job, house…. Suddenly (?) decide to murder two kids? In broad daylight no less, after having been seen by witnesses? What the heck happened in his life to make this his choice?

The lady who saw bloody muddy man leaving the scene - I would love to ask her if he made eye contact? Was he walking with purpose? Why did she think he had been in a fight?

Is there ANY chance RA was in a fight that day? Maybe a second person at the scene kicked his arse?

It wasn't broad daylight in a busy town, it was a relatively quiet Monday afternoon in Feb in an area that didn't have a lot of traffic at the end of the Monnan High Bridge and then "Down the Hill". Those areas were obscured from view and RA living near there was certainly well aware of that I believe.

Maybe he had lived an online life that his family wasn't aware of. Watched graphic CSAM, fantasized about such a thing over the months, years. Maybe he thought he could get rich selling that crap on the dark web? IDK

Perhaps he had a trigger in his own personal life that made him decide now is the time to do this? IDK

RA was in a fight that day alright, with 2 innocent young girls who had every right to live their lives without this animal taking it from them. I think Libby kicked his azz, I at least hope so.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Sorry, I made an assumption I shouldn't have. I live in a state where registration is required for handguns. Indiana apparently does not have such laws.

Your general point stands though!

 

[Peppery]

I don’t know how long dna would stay, but if he washed the clothes immediately in cold water, the stains likely wouldn’t be visible.

That’s another thing I’m curious about. Was no one home when he returned all bloody and muddy? Did he often wash clothes, especially jackets? Would he know to use cold water (I didn’t)? There might have been enough time for him to wash, dry and put away the clothing before his family noticed, but then you’re getting into past dinner time.

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

I cant image having just murdered 2 girls and not at least trying to lay down to hide yourself covered in blood, Not that it didnt happen ,but if it did maybe it was meant to apear as soming different. I dont know but it is odd, the whole him being everywhere so fast ,lead me to think two men were dressed the same and roaming different parts or at least having me considering different things. Like one of the witnesses might have looked like a witness back then to the bridge man but might be a additional suspect since the officers notes are being reveiwed and other possible evidence they have on the still under investigation suspect. How did they know to search the creek again and is the DNA that link him possiblely from a pet? I dunno but lots of clues inbedded in the LE statement and pressers over the time ,that i am looking at from a different view but I do believe they have the correct person .

JMO.

Walking along the road may have been a way for him to return to his vehicle without taking the trail system back covered in mud and blood.

His departure may have coincided with Libby’s father looking for the girls on the trails.

I hope the knowledge that he had been seen haunted him even though he escaped notice for too long.

JMO.

 

[Vpq]

That would have raised my eyebrows if I were interviewing him, for sure! Looking up stocks, I had to reread that in the PCA.

When you go hiking you are not looking at stocks

 

[stattlich1]

Ya gotta put your your fingers on a bullet to load it in a magazine.

And the bullet in the chamber is likely the last one you handled, or the second to the last.

That last bullet going in to a magazine, and even the others, are often pushed directly down, and in to position in that magazine, with the thumb.

Assuming that bullet was ejected, unfired, LE may have more than ejector/extractor marks. I wonder if that bullet could have found it's way there in some other fashion

It would be REALLY interesting if somebody else's thumbprint was on that live round they found.

I wonder if RA had range time, either at an actual firing range, or on the rural property of a friend, where a friend may have picked up one of his pre-loaded, cycled, bullets. There's several circumstances where a guy/gal would clear the chamber of a firearm, ejecting a live, unfired, round.

 

[CSIDreamer]

When you go hiking you are not looking at stocks

No you aren't. Because you're looking for fish.

 

[asyousay]

We don’t know that. She was only 17, 3 years older than Libby. Imo, a high school girl would hardly be surprised that 8th graders talked to unknown boys online because unfortunately it’s not uncommon for girls to do.

Libby’s sister was basically an adult so why would she not of wanted to protect her sister in the most basic way possible.

There is no way a 17 year old would endorse her baby sister going off to meet up with strangers.


Mooo

 

[M. Kay]

That’s another thing I’m curious about. Was no one home when he returned all bloody and muddy?

He had that shed in back corner of yard that merited a great deal of attention during evidence gathering while he sat out front in a patrol car. A wife would believe a handyman mishap if he came in from there probably.

 

[asyousay]

Or…. Something missing from the scene. A trophy?

It Seems like a strange place to hide a trophy. If he had a trophy I don’t imagine it’s anywhere his family could stumble across it.

 

[Gemmie]

Libby’s sister was basically an adult so why would she not of wanted to protect her sister in the most basic way possible.

There is no way a 17 year old would endorse her baby sister going off to meet up with strangers.


Mooo

Maybe not alone but she could have figured "What could go wrong if she brings Abby along?"

 

[girlhasnoname]

Absolutely a witness will be needed to identify him as bridge guy.

He has stated he was there. He never admitted to being bridge guy.

"Looks like" ... "sounds like"... etc... that is all reasonable doubt fuel. Imo

Moo but the bullet will be inadmissible, withdrawn, or torn to shreds by the defense. Ballistic forensics on a bullet that has gone through the barrel is hard enough to pass challenge, much less an unspent round that the evidence is admitted to being "subjective" in the pca. Ballistic forensics really is junk science for the most part.

I agree they need more to go on like biological evidence, especially since their circumstanstantial is murky at best.
The best thing they have going for them is that RA put himself in the area of the crime.

BBM

Technology in Ballistics Testing has come a long way and is in no way considered 'junk science', although it isn't as accurate as DNA. Of course there will always be 2 opposing experts to present their evidence at trial. It will be a matter of whom the jury believes to be the most logical and reliable.

I've attached a link to the latest NIST - National Institute of Standards and Technology, it's interesting reading.

<snipped> Two New Forensic Firearm Examination Standards Added to the OSAC Registry of Approved Standards
Forensic experts can often link a bullet or cartridge case to the gun that fired it based on microscopic marks left on the bullet as it exits the barrel, or on the cartridge case as it is ejected from the firearm. For instance, to test whether a bullet found at a crime scene was fired from a specific gun, experts test-fire that gun to produce a second bullet. They then compare the microscopic marks on the pair of bullets to see how similar they are.

Examiners usually compare the bullets under a split screen comparison microscope, rotating and moving them to see if the markings line up — a method that has been in use for more than 100 years. However, researchers have been developing new methods that use 3D surface scanning microscopes to produce 3D models, or virtual copies, of the bullets. Computer algorithms then compare the microscopic features of the two virtual bullets to measure how similar they are.

3D methods are not yet widely used in forensic labs. But for labs that wish to implement them, the new standards provide guidance. The new standards are:

• ANSI/ASB Standard 062, Standard for Topography Comparison Software for Toolmark Analysis
• ANSI/ASB Standard 063, Implementation of 3D Technologies in Forensic Firearm and Toolmark Comparison Laboratories

“These standards give labs guidance on purchasing and setting up a 3D system, validating it to ensure that it produces accurate results, and implementing it into their workflow,” said Erica Lawton, a firearms examiner at the Alabama Department of Forensic Sciences who, as the chair of OSAC’s Firearms and Toolmarks Subcommittee, helped guide the new standards through the approval process.

One of the benefits of a 3D system is that, after comparing the surface features of two bullets or cartridge cases, the algorithm generates a numerical score that describes how closely the two surfaces match. That match statistic expresses the amount of uncertainty in the analysis, and police investigators, jurors and others can use it when weighing the evidence. With the traditional method, an expert can only give a subjective opinion as to whether two bullets or cartridge cases were fired from the same gun. They cannot provide a match statistic.

MOO

 

[Peppery]

Libby’s sister was basically an adult so why would she not of wanted to protect her sister in the most basic way possible.

There is no way a 17 year old would endorse her baby sister going off to meet up with strangers.


Mooo

I can see some 17 year olds reacting like that and others who wouldn’t bat an eye. I personally know 17 and 18 year olds who regularly meet up with boys/men from online, send them photos, give out their address, many of the same things that might have happened here. All I’m saying is the fact that Libby invited K does not necessarily mean she wasn’t planning a meet up with A_S or someone else IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

Ya gotta put your your fingers on a bullet to load it in a magazine.

And the bullet in the chamber is likely the last one you handled, or the second to the last.

That last bullet going in to a magazine, and even the others, are often pushed directly down, and in to position in that magazine, with the thumb.

Assuming that bullet was ejected, unfired, LE may have more than ejector/extractor marks. I wonder if that bullet could have found it's way there in some other fashion

It would be REALLY interesting if somebody else's thumbprint was on that live round they found.

I wonder if RA had range time, either at an actual firing range, or on the rural property of a friend, where a friend may have picked up one of his pre-loaded, cycled, bullets. There's several circumstances where a guy/gal would clear the chamber of a firearm, ejecting a live, unfired, round.

Fingerprints? Plenty of prior speculation as to where fingerprints might’ve been lifted from but at the time we didn’t know about the bullet found at the crime scene.

“Leazenby advised there is DNA from the crime scene but refused to divulge from where it originated. He said there is “suggestive” evidence of fingerprints found at the crime scene.”

Lots of tips, no arrest in 2017 double homicide - Carroll County Comet

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby told the Comet Monday roughly 40,000 tips have been received in the investigation into the homicides of Abigail Williams and Liberty German on Feb. 13, 2017. Leazenby reported that roughly 9,000 tips were received in 2019 and approxim ately 3 , 0 0 0 have...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

 

[moonrise]

Why didn't the actual witnesses mentioned in the PC ID him every time they went into CVS?

The defense is going to be ALL OVER that.

Just a thought. He might've been wearing a face mask at work during the pandemic, either required by CVS or voluntarily. Along with possibly changing his appearance, a face mask could've easily prevented people from recognizing him.

I ran into one of my best friends in a store during the pandemic. Between the mask covering half of her face and muffling her voice, I had no idea who she was. She said hi, asked how Hubby and I were doing, then after a quick chat, she went on about her shopping. I turned to Hubby and asked, "Who was THAT?"