Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

[mlgdvm94]

I’m listening to this and surprised by this remark but I’ve never listened to Brett and Alice before. Just wondering if they have mentioned this in the past on their podcast?

I have never listened to them before either so I don't know. I was suprised as well so went back to listen to it again to make sure I had heard it correctly. No other mention made of it in the rest of the episode or anything else I have read or listened to.

 

[TheVisual]

The missing persons report was covered by the media the evening of the 13th.

MISSING: Two 13-year-old Carroll Co. girls

Two 13-year-old Carroll County girls are missing after they were dropped off to go hiking Monday afternoon.

www.wrtv.com

If this is accurate, RA didn’t speak with the conservation office until the next day, Feb 14th, “right after” the bodies were found but I haven’t noticed LE nor RA’s defense team to be quoted anywhere as the official source of this information.

The first paragraph is worded in such a way it could be misconstrued RA was in the area on Feb 14th but it clearly was the day “he admitted to investigators” given the timeline as we know it.

BBM

“According to i-Team 8, Allen admitted to investigators that he was “in the area” of the Monon High Bridge on February 14, 2017, the day that Libby and Abby were found dead. The girls had an outing on the bridge the day prior but never returned home. Police found their bodies the following day.

Allen reportedly told a conservation officer right after the bodies were found about his whereabouts. Yet, investigators reportedly “forgot about the statement,” i-Team 8 reports, until this year, when they arrested Allen and charged him with murder.”

Richard Allen: Accused Delphi Killer Was Near Bridge the Day 2 Girls Died, and Police Knew About it for Years [Report]

Accused Delphi killer Richard Allen allegedly admitted he was near the area the same day Libby German, 13, and Abby Williams, 14, died in Delphi, Indiana, in a brutal double-murder that went unsolved for over five years. According to i-Team 8, Allen admitted to investigators that he was “in the...

www.crimeonline.com

Then it doesn't seem reasonable that he knew the info about the 3 girls (witnesses) because it hadn't been released yet. Did he make a good guess on 3? Wasn't there another that actually talked to him? Making 4?

 

[mrjitty]

First would be an innocent explanation that hey, RA frequented the trails and woods and often carried his gun on him. He kept it unloaded because he was only going to use it just in case. In Indiana with a firearm permit, that's his right. The bullet fell out at some point and through weather, elements, etc. got kicked around the ground and happened to be next to the girls bodies after someone else committed the murders.

RSBM

I feel like this kind of approach is more theoretical than something you could actually pull off at trial.

Though counsel push the limits re speculation, counsel is not a witness and cannot testify - so only the accused could testify to a foundation for such a wild theory. Seems unlikely to fly IMO

 

[mrjitty]

I don't think they (the prosecution) states RA did the murders.

The PCA is careful on the wording, and the fact on how he is charged:

"forced down the hill by RA and led to the location where they were murdered"

"he (RA) was in the woods with Victim 1 and Victim 2"

"after the victims were murdered, Richard Allen returned to his vehicle"

and the prosecution statement has:

"we strongly believe the evidence shows Richard Allen was involved in the murder of Libby and Abby"

So, I don't see anything where the prosecution states RA actually murdered the poor girls.

As others have noted, the charges for victim 1 and victim 2 specifically state RA murdered them in the course of the kidnapping.

 

[mrjitty]

I don't think that's it. They aren't even talking like they "know" RA is guilty of the murders. But it sure sounds to me like they know RA is a pedo.

Good find @mlgdvm94!

Yes - i was wondering if she let something slip, or whether she was talking about the assumed profile of RA given he is guilty

 

[layer]

i disagree, it's Alice from "The Prosecutors" that says that Alice and Brett have never claimed to have any inside information on the case other than what MS has told them and Kevin from MS later in the episode said their sources really think KK and RA might be linked or others might be involve, but as of yet they have found no evidence of it. LE could have evidence RA is a pedo (i certainly suspect he is) but Alice would not be privy to that (nor does she claim she is). I listen to everything "The Prosecutors" do (great podcast btw) and its clear to me JMO IMO what she is saying.

It's just that caution I'm referring to, and they use it repeatedly - "it could be..." or "it seems like..." that makes this sound much, much different.

"Here's something that brings it down from just coincidence or massive conspiracy child-sex ring. We know things... we know something about Richard Allen and Kegan Kline. They were over-eighteen men who showed a preference for underage girls, in the tween ages. We know that much about them."

Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't sound like any assumption based on a theory.
JMHO

 

[Yvettea]

It's just that caution I'm referring to, and they use it repeatedly - "it could be..." or "it seems like..." that makes this sound much, much different.

"Here's something that brings it down from just coincidence or massive conspiracy child-sex ring. We know things... we know something about Richard Allen and Kegan Kline. They were over-eighteen men who showed a preference for underage girls, in the tween ages. We know that much about them."

Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't sound like any assumption based on a theory.
JMHO

It doesn’t sound like an assumption that RA is a pedo but it does sound like a leap you could make from ‘knowing’ RA is affiliated with KAK. Maybe the podcaster has a preconceived notion that the two are connected through pedophilia.

 

[layer]

It doesn’t sound like an assumption that RA is a pedo but it does sound like a leap you could make from ‘knowing’ RA is affiliated with KAK. Maybe the podcaster has a preconceived notion that the two are connected through pedophilia.

Oh for sure, on the KAK association. And they are appropriately careful to say that they don't know.

I was just saying it is news to me that RA is a pedo.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Oh for sure, on the KAK association. And they are appropriately careful to say that they don't know.

I was just saying it is news to me that RA is a pedo.

And I've always thought he was. Why else would a seemingly normal man with a family, home and job go off the deep end and murder 2 teenage girls? It was in his mind, he planned this, he executed it with quite a bit of precision except for Libby catching him on video.

I think it's something he's fantasized about for a long time, and I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't heavily into CSAM with or without the KK connection. Wonder if there are any other victims of RA, not murders per se, but S A victims or stalking, peeping charges that weren't reported? Maybe there will be other victims that come forward.

Just speculating, MOO

 

[layer]

And I've always thought he was. Why else would a seemingly normal man with a family, home and job go off the deep end and murder 2 teenage girls? It was in his mind, he planned this, he executed it with quite a bit of precision except for Libby catching him on video.

I think it's something he's fantasized about for a long time, and I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't heavily into CSAM with or without the KK connection. Wonder if there are any other victims of RA, not murders per se, but S A victims or stalking, peeping charges that weren't reported? Maybe there will be other victims that come forward.

Just speculating, MOO

Right, I get the speculation. But this sounded like she knows. I mean, she said "know" three times there. I'm thinking there must be evidence out there that we're not privy to, yet...

 

[Le Singe]

It doesn’t sound like an assumption that RA is a pedo but it does sound like a leap you could make from ‘knowing’ RA is affiliated with KAK. Maybe the podcaster has a preconceived notion that the two are connected through pedophilia.

It's simple whoever did this is unquestionably a pedo in reasonable peoples minds. Alice thinks RA did this so therefore reasonably in her mind he is a pedo. Alice doesn't have inside information on this beyond what the MS people know she is not in position to know inside information on this case. Alice and Brett are working federal prosecutors (not in Indiana). They lend their unique viewpoints and experience as prosecutors to the cases they cover they are not investigative journalist and are not solely focused on Delphi. (just would like to also state again their podcast is really good they are both highly intelligent logical rational thinkers. While still managing the be very entertaining).

 

[TeaTime]

It's him. He will be convicted.

 

[CNYDarkStar]

Seems unlikely to me that there would be any blood found on a knife after almost 6 years. It doesn't take a criminal mastermind to soak your murder weapon in bleach. We don't even know that they were killed with a knife, do we? If they were strangled there should be touch DNA if he wasn't wearing gloves. The car would be more fertile ground. You can't submerge a car in bleach.

I must have missed the knife being seized part...

 

[DetectiveFoyleWannabe]

I agree, and more.

The presumption has always been "find BG and you find the killer". However, convicting him might require more, connecting BG to the kidnapping and murders. Just being on the bridge and saying "Down the hill" is not a crime, and it only links BG to the murders circumstantially.

The information LE withheld was what linked BG directly to a crime. LE knew the bullet could connect BG to the actual crime if they ever found a matching gun. And the girls saying "gun" could reasonably be interpreted to mean they went to the crime scene under duress, making BG conclusively more than just a witness.

I agree that releasing information about the gun might tip-off the killer to dispose of it, if he hadn't already done so.

And there might be another reason it was a smart move. If it was not made public that the girls said "gun" (evidence of kidnapping) or that LE could link BG directly to the murder site, BG might be less guarded, thinking that if discovered he could always just claim to have been in the wrong place at the wrong time. He might even be more likely to come forward on his own. Or his family and friends, believing he was innocent, might be more likely to report him as BG.

But RA already HAD come forward. And if he told his family he was there that day and that he already reported all he knew to LE (truthfully), there would be no reason for the family to report him. It might explain why no one reported him for years.

Actually if they prove he forced them down the hill against their will at gunpoint then he committed a felony kidnapping. They died in the course of that. Hence felony murder. Actually a very provable case. Time will tell.

 

[Gemmie]

I must have missed the knife being seized part...

The PCA says a investigators executed a search warrant and that a knife, among other items, was located. While it doesn't explicitly say "and we took them", I'm assuming they did as I don't believe they'd mention things they saw that weren't of interest to their investigation. All MOO

 

[CNYDarkStar]

The PCA says a investigators executed a search warrant and that a knife, among other items, was located. While it doesn't explicitly say "and we took them", I'm assuming they did as I don't believe they'd mention things they saw that weren't of interest to their investigation. All MOO

Ok, I read the PCA a while back but obviously forgot that was in there.

 

[Gemmie]

Ok, I read the PCA a while back but obviously forgot that was in there.

Bottom of page 5 (of 8).

 

[JnRyan]

I'm wondering if the recovered cartridge was 40 caliber Sig Sauer. Anyone know?

The .40 caliber round is likely a .40 caliber SMITH & WESSON.

.40 S&W - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The .40 cal S&W is available in S&W, Glock, Springfield Arms, Sig-Sauer and many other guns. Very common round used by LE, including FBI (until recently) and NCIS. The only round I can think of right off that is attributed to Sig is the .357 Sig-Sauer. Not the same as the .357 Magnum.

 

[Le Singe]

It's simple whoever did this is unquestionably a pedo in reasonable peoples minds. Alice thinks RA did this so therefore reasonably in her mind he is a pedo. Alice doesn't have inside information on this beyond what the MS people know she is not in position to know inside information on this case. Alice and Brett are working federal prosecutors (not in Indiana). They lend their unique viewpoints and experience as prosecutors to the cases they cover they are not investigative journalist and are not solely focused on Delphi. (just would like to also state again their podcast is really good they are both highly intelligent logical rational thinkers. While still managing the be very entertaining).

Sorry for arguing so much its a minor point. The last thing i will say just to clarify I personally 150% think RA is a pedo and would not be surprised in the least that LE have evidence of this. I just don't think Alice was implying she had knowledge of it.

 

[layer]

The .40 caliber round is likely a .40 caliber SMITH & WESSON.

.40 S&W - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The .40 cal S&W is available in S&W, Glock, Springfield Arms, Sig-Sauer and many other guns. Very common round used by LE, including FBI (until recently) and NCIS. The only round I can think of right off that is attributed to Sig is the .357 Sig-Sauer. Not the same as the .357 Magnum.

Right, it was a .40 S&W... but was it a Sig Sauer?

The reason I ask is because Sig ammo is not all that common compared to say, Winchester or Federal or Hornady or Remington or Speer or CCI or PMC.