Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

[Spartygirl]

While I realize being in your 40s isn't old, RA was on a mission in my way of thinking.

I would categorize teenagers as (overall) more daring, more nimble, more fearless.

If I so much as stepped one foot on that MHB I'd be crawling and screaming. Aside from being a stick in the mud, it looks terrifying to me.

He meandered out there to look at fish? Nah.

I'd like to know the actual age ranges of people who venture not just onto the bridge, but make it the whole way across. That study likely doesn't exist.

JMO

NO Kidding !!
There was absolutely NO way I was walking across that bridge.
NOPE, NADA, not even to the first platform.

It was too old, there are boards missing and rotted out and while I did step on it to begin to go across it, I turned right around and got off of it quickly.

 

[layer]

NO Kidding !!
There was absolutely NO way I was walking across that bridge.
NOPE, NADA, not even to the first platform.

It was too old, there are boards missing and rotted out and while I did step on it to begin to go across it, I turned right around and got off of it quickly.

I get vertigo just looking at the videos.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

NO Kidding !!
There was absolutely NO way I was walking across that bridge.
NOPE, NADA, not even to the first platform.

It was too old, there are boards missing and rotted out and while I did step on it to begin to go across it, I turned right around and got off of it quickly.

Hiya Spartygirl,

Is Indiana a one or two license plate state? TIA.

 

[everybodhi]

While I realize being in your 40s isn't old, RA was on a mission in my way of thinking.

I would categorize teenagers as (overall) more daring, more nimble, more fearless.

If I so much as stepped one foot on that MHB I'd be crawling and screaming. Aside from being a stick in the mud, it looks terrifying to me.

He meandered out there to look at fish? Nah.

I'd like to know the actual age ranges of people who venture not just onto the bridge, but make it the whole way across. That study likely doesn't exist.

JMO

He said he went there frequently, it’s probably easier the more familiar it is

 

[taylorss]

Like ski mask peeper? I'd be interested to know if RA had Monday afternoons off.

Yeah, remember that… what on earth

It was like two weeks after the girls were murdered, IIRC the peeper was wearing all black & ski mask over his face
Connected ?
Or no, cuz anyone involved with the murders is hiding not engaging in public deviancy ?
IDK
JMO

 

[Boxer]

interesting question about license plates. If Indiana requires a rear plate only, backing in has more significance.

 

[everybodhi]

It doesn’t sound like an assumption that RA is a pedo but it does sound like a leap you could make from ‘knowing’ RA is affiliated with KAK. Maybe the podcaster has a preconceived notion that the two are connected through pedophilia.

Thank you for pointing out that monetized YouTube channels can say whatever they want without proof to back it up and no matter what one’s previous background, only people who are officially employed to work this case are privy to the investigation.
Do we have any verification that RA and KK are affiliated? Nope.
Maybe he is but we don’t know yet, dropping 5 charges out of 30 doesn’t mean anything to me, 25 charges instead of 30 won’t get him out of a long time in prison.
Sometimes when speculation is passed from YouTuber to podcaster to blogger then the Daily Mail has a clickbait headline with an article that leads with “perhaps..”, or NewsNation with ex FBI saying, “maybe, based on my experience..”, we forget there’s no official source in there anywhere.

 

[everybodhi]

interesting question about license plates. If Indiana requires a rear plate only, backing in has more significance.

No front plates in Indiana since 1956

 

[ss90]

Might the 'fanny pack' actually be a visible portion of a sweatshirt, his jacket hiked up so his hand can be in the belly pocket, weapon in hand, hidden but easily accessible? And the outline above that, a holster?

Guessing he walked with his head down to hide his beard.

JMO

This is what i'veen thinking the whole time. Happens to me also when wearing a hoodie and a shorter kind of jacket. It also seems its the same color as what ever on his head (a hood?).

 

[layer]

This is what i'veen thinking the whole time. Happens to me also when wearing a hoodie and a shorter kind of jacket. It also seems its the same color as what ever on his head (a hood?).

Have any of the eyewitnesses mentioned brown?

 

[margarita25]

Link to today’s news regarding Apple encrypting stuff on the iCloud now as a measure of security protection, and LE’s concern about this. I wonder how this could potentially impact this and other cases going forward...Supposedly even if LE has a warrant they won’t be able to get some of the information they were able to previously, as I understand it. Thankfully I would think they have everything already for RA, KAK, but it could possibly be impactful if future suspects are identified as having involvement:

Apple advances user security with powerful new data protections

iMessage Contact Key Verification, Security Keys, and Advanced Data Protection for iCloud provide users important new tools to protect data.

www.apple.com

WSJ News Exclusive | Apple Plans New Encryption System to Ward Off Hackers and Protect iCloud Data

The optional feature would keep most data secure that’s stored in iCloud, a service used to back up iPhones or save specific device data such as Messages. The data would be protected in the event Apple is hacked, and it also wouldn’t be accessible to law enforcement, even with a warrant.

www.wsj.com

Apple Plans New Encryption System to Ward Off Hackers and Protect iCloud Data​

‘Advanced Data Protection’ will offer end-to-end encryption on iCloud backups, Notes, Photos and other services—a step that may draw ire from law enforcement”​

“An Apple spokesman declined to comment on the company’s handling of the encryption issue or any discussions it has had with the FBI. The FBI did not respond to requests for comment on any discussions with Apple.”

[...]

“More than two years ago, Apple told the FBI that it planned to offer users end-to-end encryption when storing their phone data on iCloud, according to one current and three former FBI officials and one current and one former Apple employee.

Under that plan, primarily designed to thwart hackers, Apple would no longer have a key to unlock the encrypted data, meaning it would not be able to turn material over to authorities in a readable form even under court order.”

—-

Apple expands iCloud encryption as it backs away from controversial CSAM scanning plans

Apple is rolling out new security features that include encryption for most of your iCloud data — much to the chagrin of law enforcement.

www.engadget.com

“New security features will keep more of your data safe from hackers and law enforcement.”

“It may be more difficult for hackers to grab your iCloud data — and even Apple is rethinking its access to sensitive content. The company is introducing a raft of security measures that run the gamut from expanded end-to-end encryption to a reversal of a controversial program intended to identify possible child sex offenders. The launch is headlined by Advanced Data Protection, an optional feature that applies end-to-end encryption to more iCloud data. While Apple was already protecting 14 data categories, the new offering protects 23 — including iCloud device backups, photos and notes. Your calendar, contacts and iCloud Mail are still unencrypted to support global systems.”

[...]

“At the same time, Apple is backing away from its controversial efforts to screen for child sexual abuse material (CSAM). The company tells Wired it has shelved a technology that would have detected known CSAM photos in iCloud and flagged accounts for reviews if they held a certain number of the toxic images. The change of heart comes after "extensive consultation" with experts, according to Apple — the company has decided that it can protect children without searching this data. Instead, it's focusing on opt-in Communication Safety features that warn parents about nudity in iMessage photos as well as attempts to search for CSAM using Safari, Siri and Spotlight.”

[...]

The tech giant is pitching the new security features as useful tools for its most privacy- and security-conscious users, whether they're high-profile targets or simply people willing to trade some convenience for peace of mind. However, they could also set up further conflicts between Apple and law enforcement. The FBI and other agencies have frequently attacked Apple for making it difficult to crack suspects' iPhones through iOS' end-to-end encryption. Now, police might also be shut out of iCloud data they could previously obtain through official requests — Apple couldn't comply with orders even if it wanted to.”

—

Apple Kills Its Plan to Scan Your Photos for CSAM. Here’s What’s Next

The company plans to expand its Communication Safety features, which aim to disrupt the sharing of child sexual abuse material at the source.

www.wired.com

“IN AUGUST 2021, Apple announced a plan to scan photos that users stored in iCloud for child sexual abuse material (CSAM). The tool was meant to be privacy-preserving and allow the company to flag potentially problematic and abusive content without revealing anything else. But the initiative was controversial, and it soon drew widespread criticism from privacy and security researchers and digital rights groups who were concerned that the surveillance capability itself could be abused to undermine the privacy and security of iCloud users around the world.”


—-

Previous reference additional reference from January 2020:

Exclusive: Apple dropped plan for encrypting backups after FBI complained - sources

Apple Inc <AAPL.O> dropped plans to let iPhone users fully encrypt backups of their devices in the company's iCloud service after the FBI complained that the move would harm investigations, six sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.

www.reuters.com

“Apple Inc AAPL.O dropped plans to let iPhone users fully encrypt backups of their devices in the company's iCloud service after the FBI complained that the move would harm investigations, six sources familiar with the matter told Reuters.”

 

[mrjitty]

Actually if they prove he forced them down the hill against their will at gunpoint then he committed a felony kidnapping. They died in the course of that. Hence felony murder. Actually a very provable case. Time will tell.

Yes - the only live issue at trial will be the identity of BG

The defence version will be that BG did the murders, and police have the wrong guy. While the state must establish the factual foundation for all the components of the felony murder, it won't be in contention that the crime was in fact committed by BG

 

[mrjitty]

Sorry for arguing so much its a minor point. The last thing i will say just to clarify I personally 150% think RA is a pedo and would not be surprised in the least that LE have evidence of this. I just don't think Alice was implying she had knowledge of it.

It's hard to know how to take the comment made in the conversational style of a podcast.

They also spoke about the killer profile of RA, in a way that assumed he was guilty

 

[mrjitty]

i think he planned it to a degree. I think he might not have planned for sure that it would be THOSE girls THAT day, but i think he had this type of crime in his mind at this location and was just waiting for an opportunity. He used the end of that bridge tactically to trap them. He knew you could go down the hill there and reach a place where you could cross the river where it was ankle deep. and he knew he could escape by the grave yard (not ideal). I don't think this was a completely shooting from the hip if you will. He had thought this through and fantasized about it many many times IMO.

Agreed

Although it seems stupid and absurdly risky, this loosely fits many other similar abduction crimes.

It's not unusual for victims to be abducted opportunistically from places where people are around - e.g right off the street, or in a park. Usually there is a second crime scene where the killer will feel more comfortable and hidden from view, where the attack takes place. The killer will feel he has control over his victims at this location. Then a third crime scene which is the disposal ground where the bodies are left.

In this case there is no disposal ground - the final crime scene is also where the attack took place.

But otherwise it seems fairly standard for a sex attacker. This will be a place he knew well, and he will have planned it out. The victims are likely just the first suitable targets who came along.

 

[mrjitty]

So when RA said he was cat fishing watching, that had to be around 2pm, right? Because of Trail Woman's timing? If LE has other video of L and A and the "stuff girls talk about," especially if it covers most their time on the trail, that would put RA in a bind as to why he didn't see them. I still suspect there was an encounter on the trail prior to the bridge, which in part influenced L starting her video. IDK...

I suspect what will sink him, is his attempts to explain this in his police interview, assuming trail woman comes up to spec as a witness.

The video of his car, plus seeing the 3 girls, places him on an approximate 'flight path' to the bridge, and as far as we know, he didn't deviate from that. Trail Woman then sees a bridge guy on the bridge - which is where we expect to find RA according to his own version.

There is now no way for him to get off the bridge and past the victims, unless they somehow took a detour to let him slip by. The details of their phone location will be quite critical to this IMO.

To me the most interesting part of the MS podcast discussion is that RA basically told LE he is bridge guy and that could well be part of the killers profile. He got a thrill out of being the suspect.

His mistake IMO, is having had years to think about it, he stuck with his exit path, because he didn't know about Trail woman, and didn't know how accurately photos, cameras and calls would establish a timeline.

He likely believed he could argue he got off the bridge before the timestamp in the video - he really only needs a 5min window I think, to get past where the victims will come on to the trail. But the problem is Trail Woman proves there is no such window - because she sweeps the path between the victims and the bridge.

This already proves BARD that RA=BG

But IMO what MS has not paid attention to, is LE will have tripped him up on this stuff in the interview

Especially I suspect, that knowing what he knew of the evidence, RA will have gone for a fast walk version, to let him get back past the victims carpark entry point. No other version works for him.

What he didn't realise is he needs to get on and off the bridge before Trail Woman gets on to the trail - because she creates a complete "bottle episode' defining the time and space window in which all the events occur. Especially she corroborates the victims arrival time, and sees the accused car still parked at 2.14

The only way i can make it work is if somehow the victims went off trail for some minutes, before the bridge

Is this reasonable doubt? I think if he evolved his story in the interview, he is sunk.

 

[Elley Mae]

Right, it was a .40 S&W... but was it a Sig Sauer?

The reason I ask is because Sig ammo is not all that common compared to say, Winchester or Federal or Hornady or Remington or Speer or CCI or PMC.

I hope whoever the manufacturer is of the bullet found is the same manufacturer of a box of bullets found at the home.

 

[asyousay]

So where would he linger so the girls can get on the bridge?

As in Abby’s photo he isn’t in that still photo behind them which is interesting as she seems quite a distance from the beginning of the bridge. So he must of given it a bit of time for them to get over half way across imo

 

[everybodhi]

I suspect what will sink him, is his attempts to explain this in his police interview, assuming trail woman comes up to spec as a witness.

The video of his car, plus seeing the 3 girls, places him on an approximate 'flight path' to the bridge, and as far as we know, he didn't deviate from that. Trail Woman then sees a bridge guy on the bridge - which is where we expect to find RA according to his own version.

There is now no way for him to get off the bridge and past the victims, unless they somehow took a detour to let him slip by. The details of their phone location will be quite critical to this IMO.

To me the most interesting part of the MS podcast discussion is that RA basically told LE he is bridge guy and that could well be part of the killers profile. He got a thrill out of being the suspect.

His mistake IMO, is having had years to think about it, he stuck with his exit path, because he didn't know about Trail woman, and didn't know how accurately photos, cameras and calls would establish a timeline.

He likely believed he could argue he got off the bridge before the timestamp in the video - he really only needs a 5min window I think, to get past where the victims will come on to the trail. But the problem is Trail Woman proves there is no such window - because she sweeps the path between the victims and the bridge.

This already proves BARD that RA=BG

But IMO what MS has not paid attention to, is LE will have tripped him up on this stuff in the interview

Especially I suspect, that knowing what he knew of the evidence, RA will have gone for a fast walk version, to let him get back past the victims carpark entry point. No other version works for him.

What he didn't realise is he needs to get on and off the bridge before Trail Woman gets on to the trail - because she creates a complete "bottle episode' defining the time and space window in which all the events occur. Especially she corroborates the victims arrival time, and sees the accused car still parked at 2.14

The only way i can make it work is if somehow the victims went off trail for some minutes, before the bridge

Is this reasonable doubt? I think if he evolved his story in the interview, he is sunk.

For someone who is described as quiet by the community, (even when drinking in bars), he sure did talk a lot with law officials.
I guess he thought he could establish his innocence that way but it seems to have had the opposite effect.
He could have just said “I don’t remember” to much of it but he remembers everything, apparently, including every stranger he passed on a trail over 5 years ago.

 

[taylorss]

For someone who is described as quiet by the community, (even when drinking in bars), he sure did talk a lot with law officials.
I guess he thought he could establish his innocence that way but it seems to have had the opposite effect.
He could have just said “I don’t remember” to much of it but he remembers everything, apparently, including every stranger he passed on a trail over 5 years ago.

Yeah … incredibly detailed memory for a supposedly random unimportant day when he bummed around on a local trail, watched some fish from 60ft up & sat on a bench

Imo

 

[electricuncalm]

Yes, there’s no getting around it, that RA is charged with the murders (aka killing another human being) is clearly stated on each charging doc -

Probable cause court documents released in Delphi homicide case

Tuesday afternoon, the special judge in the double Delphi homicide case issued an order unsealing the probable cause affidavit.

www.wlfi.com

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In indiana, being charged with felony murder doesn’t mean they are saying the accused killed the victim directly. One can be guilty of felony murder if a death occurs while the accused is committing another crime, such as kidnapping.