Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #161

[Trebor5591]

Does anybody else think the conservative officer was a friend of RA?

The gag order actually protects him from the media and them probing into his part in all this. It makes no sense he didn’t come forward to the police and explain he had been given this information. He will be torn apart on the stand as he will be forced testify im positive of it.

Moo

Do you mean the Conservation Officer to whom RA spoke with, disclosing that he was on the MHB the day of the murder?

 

[Salah11]

Do you mean the Conservation Officer to whom RA spoke with, disclosing that he was on the MHB the day of the murder?

Yes because it still makes no sense he didn’t do a follow up on the RA’s information. So it makes me wonder if these two were friends at all.

 

[Gemmie]

Does anybody else think the conservative officer was a friend of RA?

The gag order actually protects him from the media and them probing into his part in all this. It makes no sense he didn’t come forward to the police and explain he had been given this information. He will be torn apart on the stand as he will be forced testify im positive of it.

Moo

A friend or at least an acquaintance. Maybe it was only friendly chit-chat while filling a script, maybe they played pool together or had beers. It's an extremely small town so I'd think it was very possible.

 

[gizmobtj]

The three girls on the trail did not recognize him, but he may have thought they did, especially sk ce they respectfully said “Hi.”
A self report would be better than letting that play out.

Good point

 

[Justice101]

Do you mean the Conservation Officer to whom RA spoke with, disclosing that he was on the MHB the day of the murder?

That's where I think the investigation got messed up. They have a HUGE network of state and FBI people setting up the tips hotline and database management. BUT... a conservation officer (although technically law enforcement) doesn't necessarily go thru the official network and someone checks a box for a follow up with RA.... follow up question on RA only related to corroborating the timeline. NOT actually asking why he was there and was he involved.

To me, this was error that caused the 5 year delay in keeping RA off the short list as a potential suspect.

70,000 tips will do that to you. If only people who had real pertinent knowledge would contact them with tips, then this process would have less chaos.

So glad they went back to DAY ONE, and re-looked at all the early tips from people who were on the trails that day.. and found the ROGUE INTERVIEW in the paperwork from the conservation officer.

That tip had to be put "in the wrong pile" so to speak.

 

[Ozoner]

That's where I think the investigation got messed up. They have a HUGE network of state and FBI people setting up the tips hotline and database management. BUT... a conservation officer (although technically law enforcement) doesn't necessarily go thru the official network and someone checks a box for a follow up with RA.... follow up question on RA only related to corroborating the timeline. NOT actually asking why he was there and was he involved.

To me, this was error that caused the 5 year delay in keeping RA off the short list as a potential suspect.

70,000 tips will do that to you. If only people who had real pertinent knowledge would contact them with tips, then this process would have less chaos.

So glad they went back to DAY ONE, and re-looked at all the early tips from people who were on the trails that day.. and found the ROGUE INTERVIEW in the paperwork from the conservation officer.

That tip had to be put "in the wrong pile" so to speak.

You have a good point about the 70,000 tips.

The worst offenders are the despicable people who call in the same tip more than once. For people like that, it's all about an ego-driven need to insert themselves into an investigation when they actually don't know anything.

All IMHO.

 

[Bergmann]

70,000 tips

And most of these will range from plausible to vague to downright nonsense and mischief.

No comparison with making in person enquiries, door to door (so to speak), and locating everyone who was in the vicinity at the right time and investigating them to the point of solid elimination... which didn't happen in this case and there is no getting away from it.

 

[electricuncalm]

Honestly, I think most people just don't know how the just system works in the States.

I’m in the states and I work with law enforcement. I’m fairly aware of how things work. I’m also in indiana, so I’m specifically more knowledgeable about indiana than, say, Missouri. In indiana, prosecutors prosecute criminal cases.

 

[electricuncalm]

Just wondering… has anyone in any legal capacity officially confirmed that the tip about ra was misfiled? All I’ve seen from official sources is the fbi saying nope, that’s not what happened sorry. And I see a podcast and anonymous investigative sources being quoted as saying that’s what happened. Other than that, I cannot find anything. I know there’s a gag order now, but I’m wondering if somehow I missed where anyone other than the fbi with the authority to confirm has said anything.
If not… why does everyone assume it must have been an error and not malicious? Is it possible the unnamed other actor referred to in the request to keep the pcr sealed could be, oh I don’t know… the conservation officer? Is it not possible that conservation officer possibly died, or was arrested? And someone else found the information in his papers and turned it over?
Or maybe he didn’t realize the significance and never turned it in, assuming his old buddy ra that he met while grabbing milk on the way home from work wouldn’t seriously murder two teenage girls. There’s a lot of criminal charges that could be thrown at someone in a situation like that.

I do see that everyone seems to find the podcast to be a reliable source, but frankly, I have no idea how their reliability could be confirmed at this point.

I’m just spitballing, trying to examine any possibility. I have some theories, one of which includes kak being the linchpin here, and the biggest mistake le made being what they already admitted to- they fumbled hard with kak. I’m not a huge believer in a lot of coincidences occurring around the same event, and from the official information we have - it seems like it would be a heck of a lot of coincidences for ra to not be bg and not be tied to kak somehow.

 

[Megnut]

Based on what we know, RA said he was there that day and claimed he neither saw the girls nor the mystery man several others saw.

I can see that getting filed to the dead letter pile.

If you're looking for witnesses.

Of course I'd have put it at the top of the possible POI pile.

But sometimes you just don't see what's right in front of you.

JMO

 

[Salah11]

Based on what we know, RA said he was there that day and claimed he neither saw the girls nor the mystery man several others saw.

I can see that getting filed to the dead letter pile.

If you're looking for witnesses.

Of course I'd have put it at the top of the possible POI pile.

But sometimes you just don't see what's right in front of you.

JMO

These are paid to be detectives so it shouldn’t of been missed that’s the point. It’s highly problematic that it was and reflects incredibly badly on LE.

 

[Justice101]

This sort of "screw up" happens in all jobs and all avenues of work, yours and mine included... including law enforcement included.

Prior to the internet, lost tips would never have been known to the general public like they are today under the ever-watchful eye of people like us. Local news and a vast amount of information known instantly around the world.

It's a double edged sword. People are human and make mistakes... sometimes painfully obvious mistakes (think of the grinding of NASA's Hubble Space Telescope mirror to the wrong specifications that made it terribly out of focus and initially totally useless).

The only positive thing in the Delphi case is that they did go back and take a fresh look and found the missing/overlooked/miscategorized report on RA's admission to the conservation officer.

 

[Justice101]

Yes but most jobs don’t involved life and death so the bar is a lot higher when more is at stake. I go back to the pain and suffering of the family’s and it’s simply not acceptable their pain and suffering was made worse by sheer incompetence.

It's not necessarily sheer incompetence. We don't know who dropped the ball or how it was dropped. Will probably never know.

Just saying that this sort of thing happens a lot when every investigation is different and so many people are involved. Not excusing it, just explaining that even NASA screws up...where life and death also matters.

 

[mrjitty]

Describing the Innocence Project as just defense attorneys trying to generate a controversy is quite misleading IMO. They've done amazing work exposing how unreliable and unscientific some of the evidence that prosecutors have been relying on for years to convict people is (arson evidence, bite mark evidence, etc). Testimony from 'experts' in those fields has gotten a lot of innocent people thrown in prison and likely led to a few being executed.

If they object to this type of tool mark evidence it's worth at least listening to them.

In my unexpert opinion, it seems to me that tool mark evidence can be reliable if the tool marks are unique and reproducible, but could also be used in a misleading way if the marks aren't unique. I don't know that going down to a microscopic level will work in this case. There are presumably 5 years of microscopic changes in RA's gun since the murders, unless he hasn't used it all since 2017. Maybe there is some unique and unchanged mark that his gun produces that hasn't changed, but maybe there isn't.

That's all a separate question from RA's guilt of course. Even if the tool mark evidence just suggests instead of proves that the bullet came from his gun, that might be enough for a jury. Placing him on the bridge gets the prosecution close to home, IMO. But it is very important evidence like this be given it's correct scientific weight and not more, otherwise innocent people in other cases will get convicted because of it.

Agreed

The tool mark evidence will be argued at a specific level at trial rather than at a general level now. We can’t know what specific indicators they have found

I also see it just as part of a circumstantial web. His gun will likely be ruled in but not to exclusion. But that is a big piece of evidence alongside everything else if it holds up.

There are other potential aspects of the ammunition that might link him to crime scene without being conclusive. Eg a more unusual ammo. We just don’t know.

 

[Salah11]

Do people believe this will make it to trial before summer?

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Do people believe this will make it to trial before summer?

Fat chance. Moo.

 

[TTF14]

Do people believe this will make it to trial before summer?

Not a chance. Not even in 2023.

 

[gizmobtj]

This sort of "screw up" happens in all jobs and all avenues of work, yours and mine included... including law enforcement included.

Prior to the internet, lost tips would never have been known to the general public like they are today under the ever-watchful eye of people like us. Local news and a vast amount of information known instantly around the world.

It's a double edged sword. People are human and make mistakes... sometimes painfully obvious mistakes (think of the grinding of NASA's Hubble Space Telescope mirror to the wrong specifications that made it terribly out of focus and initially totally useless).

The only positive thing in the Delphi case is that they did go back and take a fresh look and found the missing/overlooked/miscategorized report on RA's admission to the conservation officer.

Why do you think that prior to the Internet we would not have found our about lost tips? There are lots of examples put there, including the Lyons sisters.

 

[taylorss]

Except he didn't try to cover his butt from a lengthy sentence when he drove to the transfer station that morning before things went down. He only asked his cousin to lie for him starting between 2:00 - 2:30 when the murders went down. You'd think he'd want to cover his butt each and every time he drove without a license, yet he only did that when things went down on that particular day.

1) He only asked for an alibi before the girls were even found, and during the timeframe when the murders first went down.

2) He drove to the transfer station that morning and didn't feel he needed an alibi for driving without a license before the murders happened.

Lastly, LE thought the creation of an alibi prior to them being found indicates knowledge of that crime.

So to me, his seeking an alibi wasn't about not getting busted for driving without a license, it was about covering his butt when a murder on his property went down. I do not believe he's the killer, but I do think he knew what was going on when it was actually happening. If not, why ask your cousin to lie about a trip to another city during the exact timeframe a murder (and whatever else) transpired? And NOT ask for one for a transfer station run before the murders even took place?

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/logan-warrrant.pdf

Back when it happened that RL was busted & this all first came out, i wondered if maybe RL had something like a “hall pass” with local LE
Like say they wouldn’t hassle him about say short runs to necessary spots like the dump. but he knew a longer unnecessary drive would be a real problem
just a possibility JMO

 

[Gemmie]

Back when it happened that RL was busted & this all first came out, i wondered if maybe RL had something like a “hall pass” with local LE
Like say they wouldn’t hassle him about say short runs to necessary spots like the dump. but he knew a longer unnecessary drive would be a real problem
just a possibility JMO

I hear ya. That very possibly could be. But how does that explain his feeling the need to have a cousin lie making him an alibi for the time when things went down? That part makes me go Hmmmm.... Plus, his receipt was for 5:21 and it's ~30 minutes to Lafayette. So... he really didn't need a fake alibi starting between 2-2:30 if his receipt is for 5:21.

So to me, it's not about him feeling he needed an alibi for a longer timeframe to Lafayette... it was about him feeling the need for a fake alibi at the time things went down on his property. It just doesn't add up for me.