Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #161

[Boxer]

Also they should start the trial quickly for the benefit of the not-yet-proven-guilty defendant. I mean it sure seems to ME like he did it, but on the off chance he didn't, they need to minimize the state's generous "hospitality" in order to minimize losses in any forthcoming lawsuit.

Delays are usually the defenses motions.

 

[Marzipan]

I can absolutely see all those scenarios happening but still wouldn't that one piece of info cross the CO's mind at some point, at least those several times the case seemed to have been stuck. That is, again, assuming he knew about the witnesses on the trails and Allen being only male there. I guess there's that possibility the CO was not let into that sort of evidence.

Anyway I'm not accusing anyone, just curious and likewise hope it's going to be looked into.

The CO might have zero interest in this sort of news and this case. You might think everyone who is sworn LE follows it, but if my husband were a CO he would not even think about it. He’d be thinking about fishing, native plants, aquatic and terrestrial invasive species, etc. Takes no interest in violent crimes. RA really chose the right guy. It still seems crazy to me that investigators hadn’t found this report or whatever happened with it. And sure, it’s possible there is something off with the CO, but I do not suspect that.

 

[Salah11]

The CO might have zero interest in this sort of news and this case. You might think everyone who is sworn LE follows it, but if my husband were a CO he would not even think about it. He’d be thinking about fishing, native plants, aquatic and terrestrial invasive species, etc. Takes no interest in violent crimes. RA really chose the right guy. It still seems crazy to me that investigators hadn’t found this report or whatever happened with it. And sure, it’s possible there is something off with the CO, but I do not suspect that.

I find it hard to believe a case Involving the slaying of two young girls and it being global news that the CO wouldn’t of been intrigued by the case. I doubt there was many in the community who wasn’t waiting on a arrest and watching the story unfold as it went along.

This was not simply a car jacking gone wrong.

Moo

 

[JosieMae]

also did not realize what my wife and I’s immediate financial situation was going to .


Both worked full time and owned their own home so I find it incredibly strange that he claims they are so strapped for cash. I am
wondering if he liked to gamble and drink their money away.

Moo

Perhaps no savings and a pile of debt? And now, no income. Just speculating.

 

[Gemmie]

also did not realize what my wife and I’s immediate financial situation was going to .


Both worked full time and owned their own home so I find it incredibly strange that he claims they are so strapped for cash. I am
wondering if he liked to gamble and drink their money away.

Moo

It wouldn't surprise me in the least that they were strapped for cash without doing something like gambling it away. I know a lot of people that are what I call Spenders. I'm a Saver and I try to have conversations with Spenders about the merits of saving vs spending beyond your means (or even just to your means). I even have a presentation that I created that's easy to understand. In my experience, and I've talked to a lot of people about this, they just either do not (1) "Get it", or (2) care. There's no changing that behavior if it's not already there. All MOO!

ETA - I had omitted the OPs comment about drinking their money away but wanted to add that I know a lot of 'party people' that drink their money away. Not sure I'd classify them as alcoholics... but definitely party people.

 

[mrjitty]

My personal concern with the catfishing coincidence is that it establishes a risky behavior by at least one of the victims, which was to actively communicate online with a male unknown to her, possibly in an inappropriate manner, and put her location on SM (IG, SC, etc.). Unintentionally, she had made herself a target for certain crimes, and KAK represents one online predator who found her. That behavior didn't necessarily up her chances of being killed by a drunk driver, but could it have upped her chances of having another online predator find her (or be led to her) and commit a crime against her? Idk, but it is concerning to me.

I agree that there are other sorts of explanations like the one you raise here

I dunno I just have a bugbear about this type of thing from IT projects

The number of times you deploy something then something else breaks and everyone gets mad only for it to transpire that the second thing had nothing to do with the first …. They just happened to be linked by chrono.

We see patterns where nothing exists

 

[CNYDarkStar]

The thing I've been wondering for some days now, and since reading past ten or so pages it seems some of you have too, is how come the officer RA told his story about being on the bridge never in five years questioned what came of it?

I guess there's a chance he was not privy to the specifics of this investication, being "only" CO, but I've been understood that it was more or less an all hands on deck kinda situation, why else would he be taking witness statements in the first place. So assuming he knew our boy Allen was the ONLY male on those trails at that time frame, perhaps even knew his clothing, how come he never asked anyone like "hey we did have this one dude who pretty much fits the bill, did you clear him or what". Misfiled or not, that should have given a reason to go through those interviews, find it and check it out, right?
I just can't wrap my head around why the CO never spoke up and ask these questions, or did he but no one paid much attention?

We won't know the actual answer to that until trial. It's possible that info became the entire focus/reason they became aware of RA and they set out trying to put it together. It takes time to things correctly. Sometimes the smallest of things get overlooked and then someone catches it later. Happens all the time in these cold cases that have sat around for 20 or 40 years.

 

[Forpsy]

I think it’s worth noting at this point that (again, I am only speaking of my own experience in indiana and knowledge of indiana law) dnr officers have much greater power than city / county / state law enforcement and are not compelled to work with such local agencies. If the land is dnr covered land that an incident occurred at, our local dnr officer usually will not allow local le to be involved in any way shape or form. Conversely, if the land an incident occurs on didn’t occur on dnr covered land and there’s no reason for dnr to be involved (killing a human instead of an illegally poached deer), then dnr will rarely have anything to do with it.

I suspect ra knew the dnr officer well enough to make a smart choice when it came to who ra chose to give his statement to. whether it was friendship or a particularly uncooperative with local le dnr officer, I think ra knew his statement would be buried for a significant time, if not forever.

Sorry, I managed to mess this up with the quoting and don’t know how to delete and start again.

What is "DNR?"

 

[Forpsy]

COs graduate from police academy (ILEA,) along with other deputies and police officers.

I find it hard to believe a case Involving the slaying of two young girls and it being global news that the CO wouldn’t of been intrigued by the case. I doubt there was many in the community who wasn’t waiting on a arrest and watching the story unfold as it went along.

This was not simply a car jacking gone wrong.

Moo

Yeah but being intrigued by the case and thinking your friend may be the culprit by virtue of his his "confession" to you are two very different things. I think it is entirely possible that RA's friendly CO might have assumed his friend wasn't involved and filed his information away in his head where it would obviously do no good jmo

 

[JosieMae]

My guess is that the CO reported the tip to LE as required and just assumed RA had been interviewed.

 

[Yemelyan]

What is "DNR?"

"Department of Natural Resources" - where conservation officers in Indiana (and other states) are employed.

 

[Boxer]

The CO might have zero interest in this sort of news and this case. You might think everyone who is sworn LE follows it, but if my husband were a CO he would not even think about it. He’d be thinking about fishing, native plants, aquatic and terrestrial invasive species, etc. Takes no interest in violent crimes. RA really chose the right guy. It still seems crazy to me that investigators hadn’t found this report or whatever happened with it. And sure, it’s possible there is something off with the CO, but I do not suspect that.

If the CO did not follow up submitting the report to 1. DNR supervisor and 2. CCSO it’s incompetence at best.
Whoever at CCSO received the report definitely.
This is not a tip, it a police community interview.

Indiana Conservation Officer Salary & Benefits

Indiana Conservation Officer Salary and Benefits

www.in.gov

Yeah but being intrigued by the case and thinking your friend may be the culprit by virtue of his his "confession" to you are two very different things. I think it is entirely possible that RA's friendly CO might have assumed his friend wasn't involved and filed his information away in his head where it would obviously do no good jmo

That “filing away” not submitting properly would be dereliction.

 

[iamnotagolem]

My guess is that the CO reported the tip to LE as required and just assumed RA had been interviewed.

This is my theory as well. I think he submitted the record of his conversation and the investigators who would have been the ones to follow up on it somehow never received it. We know he did something with it since they found it 5.5 years later and it was presumably in some way attached to the girls’ case.

I know there is a lot of blame being thrown the COs way but he wasn’t involved in the case, I’m sure investigators were constantly getting asked about tips by other LE. It’s possible the CO did ask a few times whatever came of the short guy who looked like BG that he’d talked to, but he could have been dismissed or brushed off by LE thinking he was just being nosy.

Think about the thousands of useless tips they received. Literally on Reddit this gal posted that she called LE this year with the tip she thought BG was drunk, that was her tip and when RA was arrested she posted so proud of herself for helping solve the case. Those investigators had tens of thousands of garbage tips like that they had to deal with. Then probably questioned about what we came of them by various people in the community.

Not that I’m excusing all of LE for losing/misplacing/misfiling the bit about RA.

 

[kayellen658]

It wouldn't surprise me in the least that they were strapped for cash without doing something like gambling it away. I know a lot of people that are what I call Spenders. I'm a Saver and I try to have conversations with Spenders about the merits of saving vs spending beyond your means (or even just to your means). I even have a presentation that I created that's easy to understand. In my experience, and I've talked to a lot of people about this, they just either do not (1) "Get it", or (2) care. There's no changing that behavior if it's not already there. All MOO!

ETA - I had omitted the OPs comment about drinking their money away but wanted to add that I know a lot of 'party people' that drink their money away. Not sure I'd classify them as alcoholics... but definitely party people.

I'm not sure you understand how much a defense attorney would charge for this case. Let's say RA and his wife each made $75,000-$100,000 a year ($150,000-$200,000 combined). More if you think so. They lived in a modest house - but let's value it at $300,000. IMO, just to talk to a defense attorney on THIS case would cost $25,000-$50,000. For someone to take THIS case, IMO, would take $500,000 up front. And that, IMO, is what RA was faced with. So now RA is going to have Public Defenders but they are going to get paid, and they are going to get a staff, and they are going to get experts. So, IMO, RA and his wife could barely have saved enough money to even talk to an attorney on this case, but never have saved enough to hire an attorney. And that's giving them lots of money for salaries and home cost, IMO.

 

[Prime8]

I’m in the states and I work with law enforcement. I’m fairly aware of how things work. I’m also in indiana, so I’m specifically more knowledgeable about indiana than, say, Missouri. In indiana, prosecutors prosecute criminal cases.

You started off asking how people can think that the bullet is all that they have. I agreed and answered your question with my opinion, I wasn't coming after you dude, I'm on your side.

 

[Marzipan]

I find it hard to believe a case Involving the slaying of two young girls and it being global news that the CO wouldn’t of been intrigued by the case. I doubt there was many in the community who wasn’t waiting on a arrest and watching the story unfold as it went along.

This was not simply a car jacking gone wrong.

Moo

I’ve agreed with you on everything to date, I think, but I’ll have to disagree here. It would be surprising considering he reported what RA told him but I know many who wouldn’t give it another thought. Lots of people are not interested in slayings. Some think it’s weird that I even read or watch news about these cases. They would turn the channel. Some who think my news habits are macabre think it’s weird that I don’t know who played in the last Super Bowl.
Even here in Minnesota, not everyone wanted to follow the Jacob Wetterling case, even as it unfolded finally after nearly 30 years. They don’t see the point.

 

[Marzipan]

If the CO did not follow up submitting the report to 1. DNR supervisor and 2. CCSO it’s incompetence at best.
Whoever at CCSO received the report definitely.
This is not a tip, it a police community interview.

Indiana Conservation Officer Salary & Benefits

Indiana Conservation Officer Salary and Benefits

www.in.gov

That “filing away” not submitting properly would be dereliction.

Could be incompetence, sure — it’s hard for me to grasp the lack of follow up too. But someone here from Indiana clarified that while COs are sworn as LE, they work for the DNR, not the police force (I hope I understood that correctly.) These are nature, fishing, hunting folks. Incompetent at criminal police work, perhaps, but not at what their job is about.
Tragic all around that it happened this way. But thankfully RA did make the mistake of telling someone and it has finally come to light.

 

[rainbowshummingbird]

I'm not sure you understand how much a defense attorney would charge for this case. Let's say RA and his wife each made $75,000-$100,000 a year ($150,000-$200,000 combined). More if you think so. They lived in a modest house - but let's value it at $300,000. IMO, just to talk to a defense attorney on THIS case would cost $25,000-$50,000. For someone to take THIS case, IMO, would take $500,000 up front. And that, IMO, is what RA was faced with. So now RA is going to have Public Defenders but they are going to get paid, and they are going to get a staff, and they are going to get experts. So, IMO, RA and his wife could barely have saved enough money to even talk to an attorney on this case, but never have saved enough to hire an attorney. And that's giving them lots of money for salaries and home cost, IMO.

IMO this type of case could cost a defendant 1.5-2 million dollars. Since RA has a public defender, the defense costs are paid by taxpayers. Also, his attorney is getting some good advertising, a la Jose Baez, for taking on a high profile case. It is doubtful that even the best savers among us have a sufficient rainy day fund for this kind of expense.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Yes Pictures.

At trial there will be pictures/images of the ejected round found on the ground and pictures of a like round that was ejected from same (RA) weapon to show a match. Like a fingerprint.

Jmo

It's already been debunked as junk science, nothing like a fingerprint. (See the Innocence Project's comments upthread.) What would be good is DNA or possibly an actual fingerprint. Hopefully the state has stronger evidence than the ejected, unspent round.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Hmmm... having watched this video, I think it's confirmed for me that BG did not follow the girls onto the bridge but was, in fact, ahead of them. Otherwise he'd have been in the photo L took of A. So unless he verily ran the length of the bridge to catch up to them before they reached the end, I'm convinced he was well ahead of them, setting his trap.

The lady (witness 4) saw him standing on platform 1. She turned around and headed back and encountered A & L walking towards the bridge. BG must have left the bridge at about that time.

The photo of Abby wasn’t taken at the end of the bridge and that’s why BG isn’t seen.

The girls started from the NW end of the bridge. At all times Libby was ahead of Abby and her first photo shows the full bridge as she faced SE. At 7:35 you can see the bridge as videoed with Libby’s photo to its right. She took Abby’s photo from platform 3 (333’ from NW end). You can see this photo at 8:15 and notice that the creek is behind her. Libby took BG's video from the SE end of the bridge. At 11:25 you can see BG's location.

Gray Hughes' excellent Crime scene flow 3 video is a full walkthrough and has accurate measurements of all locations and shows where BG was. It starts from the drop-off point, but if you don't need to see that, start watching at 5:30.