Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[steeltowngirl]

It dawned on me yesterday about the timelines of the folks involved overlapping. It's chilling. If he indeed walked out of the cemetery, or followed the field border by the woods, and walked a considerable length of C.R. 300, his chances of being seen were pretty high between 3:45 and 4.

Or maybe additional photos caught on a trail camera or from another building.

Police said a camera captured the photos of a man near Deer Creek between 1 and 3:30 Monday afternoon, about a quarter of a mile from the spot where the girls were found. The girls were dropped off Monday around 1 p.m. near the creek, less than a mile from where the bodies were found, to walk around and hang out.

Sgt. Riley would not say where the picture came from or if a security camera took the photo. He said he believes there is one security camera somewhere near the trails but, when asked where the camera is, he said he didn’t know.

Police question multiple people in Delphi girls' murders

---

Q. Was video collected throughout Delphi from Feb. 13, 2017 including video from the building across from the abandoned CPS building (The Anderson’s)?

A. Multiple pieces of evidence, including anything technologically based, have been gained. At least information followed into or brought to the attention by the investigators.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

 

[FrostedGlass]

The above mentioned MS podcast about the Caden Smith case focused on the admissibility of the PCA and search warrant. The State filed an appeal to reverse the judge's decision to not allow them. Anyone interested can read the briefs here:

Case # 22A-CR-02424

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[steeltowngirl]

I have noticed that RA’s house at 1967 Whiteman, parcel 08-06-33-000-065.000-006 has disappeared from Carroll County property records / Beacon.

Anybody have thoughts on why that might have happened? TIA

https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1&KeyValue=08-06-33-000-065.000-006

 

[Niner]

The above mentioned MS podcast focused on the admisability of the PCA and search warrant. The State filed an appeal to reverse the judge's decision to not allow them. Anyone interested can read the briefs here:

Case # 22A-CR-02424

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Since I can not access the link - I am a bit confused - here are my notes about that.

2/17/23 Update: Judge also grants media intervenors motion to release prosecutor’s Oct. 28 motion requesting sealing to charges & affidavit.

But the Judge DID grant the release of sealed items - no?
I do not understand what the State is appealing about the Judge's decision to not allow them - ? Allow them in trial?

??

 

[FrostedGlass]

Since I can not access the link - I am a bit confused - here are my notes about that.

2/17/23 Update: Judge also grants media intervenors motion to release prosecutor’s Oct. 28 motion requesting sealing to charges & affidavit.

But the Judge DID grant the release of sealed items - no?
I do not understand what the State is appealing about the Judge's decision to not allow them - ? Allow them in trial?

??

Sorry for the confusion. That is not RA's case. That's why I should always include links in my posts.

The MS podcast was about a different case that may have a similar outcome in RA's case. That link was to that case if anyone was interested in learning more about PCAs in general.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

 

[Niner]

Sorry for the confusion. That is not RA's case. That's why I should always include links in my posts.

The MS podcast was about a different case that may have a similar outcome in RA's case. That link was to that case if anyone was interested in learning more about PCAs in general.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

AH! You ARE trying to confuse me! LOL! Thanks for explanation...

You are up early!

 

[FrostedGlass]

AH! You ARE trying to confuse me! LOL! Thanks for explanation...

You are up early!

I'm trying to force you to read all my posts.

I'm on my second cup of coffee and it's usually safe for me to post without posting confusion. Apparently I'll start needing cup #3 before posting.

 

[Niner]

I'm trying to force you to read all my posts.

I'm on my second cup of coffee and it's usually safe for me to post without posting confusion. Apparently I'll start needing cup #3 before posting.

But I do read ALL the posts...

I think I might have needed a second cup this morning! LOL!

 

[FromGermany1]

I still find myself torn by this statement.

After all these years, I’m still so curious as to what this could be. It certainly sets the mind to wondering.

But I’m equally hoping we never find out, because it would be too horrifying to know the details of how these girls ended up.

JMO

'There was a lot more physical evidence than that at the crime scene,' Ives said. 'And it's probably not what you would imagine, or what people would think I'm talking about.'
'It was just not your normal "a person was killed here" crime scene, that's probably all I can say about it,' Ives said.
Ives said that the scene was 'odd' and displayed at least three 'signatures', which are unique behaviors by the killer.


What did the scene look like, if NOT looking like the average crime scene? I have no idea.
Scene of a:
Love nest?
Operating room?
Orgy?
Hang out?
Movie set?
What else .....??

Does "a lot of evidence" mean, there was found a lot of items?

 

[Justice101]

My theory is, IMO, RA heard Abby say "Is the creepy guy sill following us?". I am sure the poor child said it without realizing he was close enough to hear. Allen probably has anger issues and just lost it. "How dare that girl call me a creep. I'll teach her to respect her elders." Just my opinion. Let's see if it comes out at the trial. Of course I might be completely wrong, but it is a specific motive.

That's what I thought from the get go. They whispered something and he's paranoid/weak/emotionally immature person who can't handle teenage girls giggling at him. He exploded in anger. Grow up dude.

However, if he had a gun and a knife with him already, he was probably always ready to attack someone at sometime.

 

[chaz]

I have noticed that RA’s house at 1967 Whiteman, parcel 08-06-33-000-065.000-006 has disappeared from Carroll County property records / Beacon.

Anybody have thoughts on why that might have happened? TIA

https://beacon.schneidercorp.com/Application.aspx?AppID=377&LayerID=5553&PageTypeID=1&KeyValue=08-06-33-000-065.000-006

I think Beacon can do that by request. I saw it in another case where owner's data was removed. In that case the owner was related to victims and perp but not involved.

 

[steeltowngirl]

'There was a lot more physical evidence than that at the crime scene,' Ives said. 'And it's probably not what you would imagine, or what people would think I'm talking about.'
'It was just not your normal "a person was killed here" crime scene, that's probably all I can say about it,' Ives said.
Ives said that the scene was 'odd' and displayed at least three 'signatures', which are unique behaviors by the killer.


What did the scene look like, if NOT looking like the average crime scene? I have no idea.
Scene of a:
Love nest?
Operating room?
Orgy?
Hang out?
Movie set?
What else .....??

Does "a lot of evidence" mean, there was found a lot of items?

My mind goes to movie set, if the girls were being lured.
If staged after the murders, my mind goes to a ritual or cult type of scene.

 

[MistyWaters]

'There was a lot more physical evidence than that at the crime scene,' Ives said. 'And it's probably not what you would imagine, or what people would think I'm talking about.'
'It was just not your normal "a person was killed here" crime scene, that's probably all I can say about it,' Ives said.
Ives said that the scene was 'odd' and displayed at least three 'signatures', which are unique behaviors by the killer.


What did the scene look like, if NOT looking like the average crime scene? I have no idea.
Scene of a:
Love nest?
Operating room?
Orgy?
Hang out?
Movie set?
What else .....??

Does "a lot of evidence" mean, there was found a lot of items?

Well I suppose first we’d have to consider what would be an “average” crime scene in the mind of Ives. It’s not as if he prosecuted murders frequently such as a prosecutor assigned to a high crime urban area, seems his entire experience related to domestic violence incidents that occurred years in the past. Not to downplay his comments but we really don’t know if he was dramatizing a crime scene surrounding the discovery of murdered two teens, as surely it couldn’t be described as “average” considering an outdoor double murder of children is not common.

As for lots of evidence, it’s only evidence if it supports a conviction. Anything found in an area where the general public had access to would be essential for LE to collect and test but until a suspect is arrested, Ives wouldn’t necessarily know it’s evidentiary value.

JMO considering he resigned midterm less than a year after the murders, I do have to wonder if his comments can be taken at face value or if they were merely an attention-getting personal opinion to draw attention to the unsolved case since he wasn’t speaking in an official capacity. JMO

 

[Yemelyan]

'There was a lot more physical evidence than that at the crime scene,' Ives said. 'And it's probably not what you would imagine, or what people would think I'm talking about.'
'It was just not your normal "a person was killed here" crime scene, that's probably all I can say about it,' Ives said.
Ives said that the scene was 'odd' and displayed at least three 'signatures', which are unique behaviors by the killer.


What did the scene look like, if NOT looking like the average crime scene? I have no idea.
Scene of a:
Love nest?
Operating room?
Orgy?
Hang out?
Movie set?
What else .....??

Does "a lot of evidence" mean, there was found a lot of items?

This quote from RI comes from an extended interview in which he gives an example of a "typical, a person was killed here" murder scene, the kind he had dealt with before: his example was a woman physically assaulted in a kitchen at her home, by her partner who was in a rage, after which her partner shot her and killed her. The perpetrator remained on the scene when police arrived. The gun was still there and everything about this scene, according to RI, told the story of why the person was killed at that particular location (her home, because she was a victim of domestic abuse by someone she knew) and how she was killed (by a gun known to be owned by her partner).

He uses this example, IMO, to show that the scene of Abby and Libby's murders was different than what Carroll County typically deals with. Though there was a lot of physical evidence, it did not tell a clear story of how they came to be murdered there in that exact way, or by whom.

 

[sandy_80]

Yes, but what's up with the staging thing???

Given no SA (thank goodness), staging has got to be pretty rare in those instances.

Just hatred of women/girls?? Power/control over someone perceived as weaker??? I just don't get the motive.

yes...rare wouldnt that make this a more memorable sick fantasy for him
it might be part of his sick head..what he believes in ..if he believes in anything
something to relive ...did he decide this beforehand ? i don't think he anticipated two victims
has the age of the victims played a role ? did he bring things with him to achieve the staging

 

[sandy_80]

AFAIK, we do not know if Libby and Abby were or were not sexually assaulted.
Or have I missed some news?

absence of full DNA ..and the heavy denial from family is what we usually reference in this matter
that doesn't mean it didnt happen indirectly

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

The above mentioned MS podcast about the Caden Smith case focused on the admissibility of the PCA and search warrant. The State filed an appeal to reverse the judge's decision to not allow them. Anyone interested can read the briefs here:

In the Caden Smith case, the defense is asking for all of the evidence that was found during the service of a search warrant, which resulted in the recovery of the murder weapon, to be suppressed on the grounds that the warrant should not have been approved in the first place.
In my opinion, the judge found that LE/the affiant that wrote the PCA for the warrant failed to document the credibility of the family/friends/witnesses and didn't give supporting statements as to how any information was supported by other sources/observations. It sounded like, to me, that the judge was treating the witnesses like informants and she did not find that it was inadvertent and/or in good faith that the affidavit lacked this documentation. I hope the appeal reverses the suppression.

The MS podcast was about a different case that may have a similar outcome in RA's case.

In my opinion, there is nothing indicating at this time, that RA's attorneys are going to challenge the validity of the application for the warrant(s) in the Delphi case and ask for the suppression of evidence found as a result of the warrant(s), for the same arguments used in the Caden Smith case.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

 

[sandy_80]

Early on, LE said they were looking for someone who was a transient, was "passing through", that sort of thing. I found this to be odd, and the 6,000+ digital billboards even more odd, considering the location of the bridge, CS, etc. When I visited later that year, just driving around there convinced me it had to be a local, or someone who knew the area and lives not far from there.

Put RA's lifetime in reverse, and we have what a lot of folks thought would end up being BG. I think there's a possibility RA did "stage" the CS in the sense that he made it look like a non-local did it, somehow. I think that's what may have thrown off investigators early on.

JMO

how can he stage a scene as a nonlocal killer ? is that even possible
why do you regard staging as manipulation here and not part of the intended killer satisfaction ?

 

[twall]

New entries for orders

02/21/2023	Order Issued Order granting Motion Requesting Protective Order Governing Discovery Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 02/17/2023
02/21/2023	Order Issued Order Granting Media Intervenor's Renewed Motion to Intervene and Motion To Grant Public Access to the State's Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 02/17/2023
02/21/2023	Order Issued Court grants Defendant's Motion to Continue Bail Hearing and resets the hearing to June 15-16, 2023 at 8:30 a.m. in the Carroll Circuit Court. Jury trial also continued to be reset at the bond/omni hearing June 15, 2023. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 02/21/2023

 

[FrostedGlass]

In my opinion, there is nothing indicating at this time, that RA's attorneys are going to challenge the validity of the application for the warrant(s) in the Delphi case and ask for the suppression of evidence found as a result of the warrant(s), for the same arguments used in the Caden Smith case.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covefing true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

I didn't understand MS to say it could be for the exact reason; I took it to mean that defense might have a problem with the PCA and SW in general.

I've wondered about the Allens being kept out of their home for 11 hours(?) while they searched it. I never knew it was legal for them to have free roam of your home while making you wait outside. I think I remember reading that they came back late in the day with a SW for the vehicle. Were they making the Allens wait until they got that warrant?

I'd really like to see the interviews the Allens had with the investigators.