GUILTY Australia - 3 dead after eating wild mushrooms, Leongatha, Victoria, Aug 2023 *Arrest* #17

[Detechtive]

In hung juries, ultimately, the difference between innocence or guilt comes down to the personality of the people in the room. Having pushovers makes a verdict more likely. Having obstinate jurors makes a verdict less likely.

If I was innocent, I think i'd prefer a judge only trial.

 

[australianwebsleuth]

If I was innocent, I think i'd prefer a judge only trial.

I agree, the problem with juries is they are human. If they like you more likely to get off. If they don't like watch out. If you are attractive the same applies.

Many countries do not use a jury system, not sure whether research has been done on these human effects and whether they make different decisions..

 

[australianwebsleuth]

If I was innocent, I think i'd prefer a judge only trial.

And if you were guilty you would prefer a Jury.....You must be really attractive.

 

[Bats]

I agree. I find it horrifying that the 12 jurors can have differing opinions on guilt and the minority get guided, pressured, whatever you want to call it, to come around to the others way of thinking. This seems a lot like herd mentality, and when someone's life is on the line, it beggars belief.

There's nothing to say that the minority can't guide the majority to a verdict.

I can definitely imagine that happening and possibly not uncommon.

 

[Ellery84]

If I was innocent, I think i'd prefer a judge only trial.

I was just thinking that.

 

[Ellery84]

Erin Patterson mushroom murder trial LIVE update

Follow Daily Mail Australia's live coverage of accused mushroom chef Erin Patterson's murder trial here..

www.dailymail.co.uk

Key players arrive at Latrobe Valley Law Courts

Prosecutor Jane Warren (left) and Crown Prosecutor Dr Nanette Rogers SC (right) are seen arriving at the Latrobe Valley Law Courts on Saturday.

The jury has entered their sixth day of deliberations.

(Getty Images)

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I don't think of any jurors as being obstinate.

IMO they are entitled to hold whatever opinion they've arrived at, the same as any other jurors.

 

[Lisa4]

There's nothing to say that the minority can't guide the majority to a verdict.

I can definitely imagine that happening and possibly not uncommon.

True. There have been instances where a lone minority juror successfully identified flaws in the evidence and persuaded the rest of the jury to reconsider their stance.

It must all depend on the overall open-mindedness of the jurors.

 

[Hercule Holmes]

I agree. I find it horrifying that the 12 jurors can have differing opinions on guilt and the minority get guided, pressured, whatever you want to call it, to come around to the others way of thinking. This seems a lot like herd mentality, and when someone's life is on the line, it beggars belief.

Yes, but you can't really just have an opinion. It has to be legally sound.

I've told this story already. I was on a jury and we pretty quickly got to 11-1 in favour of guilt. The one didn't want to be responsible for sending someone to prison.

There is no legal basis for that person to stand on. What would you have happen here? The 11 are not going to let a guilty person walk, so the one is legitimately pressured into conforming. It's actually how the system is meant to work. You can't have obstructive, argumentative personalities stuffing up the legal system to suit themselves.

 

[Lisa4]

There are instances of jurors refusing to engage in discussion and leading to a hung jury outcome.

Jurors are expected to each arrive at their own conclusion - based on the facts presented, not their own emotional opinions.

 

[Lisa4]

Yes, but you can't really just have an opinion. It has to be legally sound.

I've told this story already. I was on a jury and we pretty quickly got to 11-1 in favour of guilt. The one didn't want to be responsible for sending someone to prison.

There is no legal basis for that person to stand on. What would you have happen here? The 11 are not going to let a guilty person walk, so the one is legitimately pressured into conforming. It's actually how the system is meant to work. You can't have obstructive, argumentative personalities stuffing up the legal system to suit themselves.

People who can't handle the civic responsibility of sending a legitimate guilty person to jail probably shouldn't be on a jury.

 

[Lisa4]

I agree. I find it horrifying that the 12 jurors can have differing opinions on guilt and the minority get guided, pressured, whatever you want to call it, to come around to the others way of thinking. This seems a lot like herd mentality, and when someone's life is on the line, it beggars belief.

Guided - isnt that okay? Patiently working through sticking points together until they are all satisfied...

Pressured - wrong absolutely.

 

[Susjay]

I think it was the mention of Erin being obese. Tootsie disagrees she’s obese. Even though it’s a literal fact.

I think there’s a lot of persecution complex around this case. Poor Erin.

What about poor Don, Heather, Ian, Gail, Simon.

The defence made sure to mention she weighed 110 kg on admission to hospital.

 

[Detechtive]

Statistically speaking, juries are more likely to come to consensus at the end of the week. Let’s hope that means today, because I’m not sure many of our nerves will survive another week of this

 

[HoneyBunOne]

There's nothing to say that the minority can't guide the majority to a verdict.

I can definitely imagine that happening and possibly not uncommon.

I agree. I meant one side swaying the other, regardless of which side held the numbers.

People who can't handle the civic responsibility of sending a legitimate guilty person to jail probably shouldn't be on a jury.

I'm sure there's lots of people that probably should not be on juries, but they were picked regardless. It's not like they volunteered.

When I said opinion, I meant based off the information given, not just a reckless thought or feeling. This case has a lot of circumstantial evidence and it's not clear cut. Therefore, jurors are going to potentially have different opinions on whether X,Y and Z equates to guilt or not. Some jurors may feel she's just the unluckiest woman to ever live, yet others may see all the layers of evidence/testimonies/expert opinions/lies and decide she is guilty.

 

[Way2Invested]

For me the trial would be personal if I felt pressured to vote against my true beliefs.

I really doubt that I could abandon my true opinion, even if it made it easier to get to a verdict.
No I couldn't do it.

Same.

 

[Susjay]

I don't think of any jurors as being obstinate.

IMO they are entitled to hold whatever opinion they've arrived at, the same as any other jurors.

Agree. I think it hangs what is “reasonable” in the context of doubt, and that could be tricky to navigate. Second, although motive is sort of off the table, this case has a huge question hanging over it. How could someone deliberately commit such a heinous act? We know such acts happen, but it’s such an abomination to most of us, that it almost creates cognitive dissonance. We almost can’t process it.

 

[Lisa4]

It’s more that jurors are not legally educated and you just have to find one dogooder naysayer or oppositional person like we see in all of the crime threads on WS, in order to be acquitted. A judge isn’t susceptible to such ignorance and obstinacy. IMO

Dogooder naysayer
You have quite a way with words @Detechtive !

 

[HoneyBunOne]

Agree. I think it hangs what is “reasonable” in the context of doubt, and that could be tricky to navigate. Second, although motive is sort of off the table, this case has a huge question hanging over it. How could someone deliberately commit such a heinous act? We know such acts happen, but it’s such an abomination to most of us, that it almost creates cognitive dissonance. We almost can’t process it.

BBM
It's a good question, but I'd argue how could someone accidently kill 3, almost 4, potentially 5 (if Simon came) and not get incredibly ill herself, or her children or dog who ate remnants of the meal?

One is very hard to imagine, the other is a miracle. MOO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

It would be part way through lunch break now.
1.24 pm

Did some searching but couldn't find if they're going through til 4.15 or not.