IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #164

[kittythehare]

Maybe someone very familiar with the bridge chose that exact crime scene precisely because he knew it to be hidden, especially from the bridge and foot traffic.

Jmo

That's my fear.
That he will say he could have dropped that bullet on a prior visit to the death scene

 

[Megnut]

I wonder if this trial might go the way of the Stauch one. Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity defense. If his confessions are solid, the defense may have no other legal recourse than to try for NGRI. That he suffered psychosis and didn't know what he was doing. Suddenly thought he was in Nam. Or his other identities did it. It won't fly because of his behaviors before and after, especially if the Prosecution can establish an online link, via catfishing and CSAM but the defense may be forced to concede he did it, he just wasn't in his right mind when he did.

Varies by state, I think, but I wonder if the defense would have to prove insanity to a jury or if the prosecution has to prove sanity...

Either way, I hope he is kept safe from himself, conditions and others so he's alive and healthy to face a full jury of his peers.

Jmo

 

[Boxer]

That's my fear.
That he will say he could have dropped that bullet on a prior visit to the death scene

IIRC Told the police he had never been on RL's property, and that he never loaned his gun to anyone.

 

[kittythehare]

IIRC Told the police he had never been on RL's property, and that he never loaned his gun to anyone.

Could he have been on it while not knowing it was RL's property or dropped bullet on a prior visit to a nearby area and weather took it to where bodies of girls were located?

I'm just waffling really.
i think his internet searches might go towards explaining his actions.

what beliefs does he hold that facilitated this brutal double murder?
what did he gain?
i remember googling cults and satanic rituals and dates and everything that could go towards explaining a staged death scene.
I came up empty.
Completely empty and I spent days on it.

There might be things I missed cos went blind from searching ritualistic dates and meanings... amount of awol stuff out there is hardcore.

i also searched the less well known anti gov cult sites but found nothing.

It's hard to understand this incident without context in an apparently otherwise normal happy fulfilled life , isn't it?

There simply MUST be a context.

 

[lisette]

IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #163

I’d take the video of BG out of the equation because RA appears to look so different now. Did he starve himself for the purpose of misleading a future jury? Many people relate to visuals, as I am one of those people; however, I would never convict someone on photo alone! There is more than the...

www.websleuths.com

Thank you kittythehare for sharing the link

 

[kittythehare]

Thank you kittythehare

no prob, here's the link to the podcast.
it's lengthy but interesting.

edit, apologies, wrong link, multitasking not my forte, here's the right link

The Delphi Murders: Possible Confessions, Due Process, and Public Access to Court Filings

On June 15, 2023, major news about the Delphi murders broke. In a due process hearing, defense and prosecution each confirmed that Richard Allen made incriminating statements about the case. Judge Fran Gull also indicated that she will rule in favor of The Murder Sheet's motion to provide more...

art19.com

 

[sassyblue]

If deemed incompetent, Idaho will send him to be "restored" in stints until he is to a level where can understand basic proceedings. Like Lori Vallow Daybell.

To be clear because this is a bone of contention of mine...the girls were killed in Indiana. Lori Vallow Daybell's trial was in Idaho.

I live and work in Idaho and once had a customer argue with me on the phone. He said my business was in Indiana. I said no Idaho. He said you are wrong. I said hey I've got to go then...I can't help you. He said why? I said because I LIVE in Idaho and apparently I have a very long drive home tonight since according to you MY business is in Indiana. I hung up and since I have caller ID I didn't answer his further calls.

I'm not sure what Indiana laws are regarding mental health. But yeah Idaho tries to restore sanity when a defendant is faking insanity.

 

[Boxer]

To be clear because this is a bone of contention of mine...the girls were killed in Indiana. Lori Vallow Daybell's trial was in Idaho.

I live and work in Idaho and once had a customer argue with me on the phone. He said my business was in Indiana. I said no Idaho. He said you are wrong. I said hey I've got to go then...I can't help you. He said why? I said because I LIVE in Idaho and apparently I have a very long drive home tonight since according to you MY business is in Indiana. I hung up and since I have caller ID I didn't answer his further calls.

I'm not sure what Indiana laws are regarding mental health. But yeah Idaho tries to restore sanity when a defendant is faking insanity.

Sorry. Indiana also has no insanity defense and sends incompetent defendents for short stints of restoration till they can stand trial.

 

[twall]

To be clear because this is a bone of contention of mine...the girls were killed in Indiana. Lori Vallow Daybell's trial was in Idaho.

I live and work in Idaho and once had a customer argue with me on the phone. He said my business was in Indiana. I said no Idaho. He said you are wrong. I said hey I've got to go then...I can't help you. He said why? I said because I LIVE in Idaho and apparently I have a very long drive home tonight since according to you MY business is in Indiana. I hung up and since I have caller ID I didn't answer his further calls.

I'm not sure what Indiana laws are regarding mental health. But yeah Idaho tries to restore sanity when a defendant is faking insanity.

According to this article Indiana has the insanity defense.

Judge allowing insanity defense for man accused of killing Officer Breann Leath

Judge Mark Stoner ruled that Elliahs Dorsey can plead insanity as he faces trial for the murder of IMPD officer Breann Leath

www.wrtv.com

Then there is this woman who killed her daughter and did very little prison time-

Judi L. Noe was sentenced in March 2005 to five years in prison after pleading guilty but mentally ill to reckless homicide for drowning her daughter, Brieana Jaide Noe, then keeping her decomposing body in an apartment for nearly three weeks.

Woman Who Drowned Daughter Gains Early Release

Prosecutors and the father of a drowned girl are protesting a judge's decision to allow the 2-year-old's mother, who pleaded guilty in the death, to be released early from prison.

www.wave3.com

 

[katydid23]

See, this is where I get stuck. So this murder-fantisizing guy just went on one of his routine hunting hikes, carrying his gun and knife, his face covered, and stood out on the bridge platform watching fish, just hoping he'd come across a victim, even though he's lived in the area over 40 years and never before found the right time to murder someone, but that day he found two teenagers and decided it was the right time, even though he had already been seen by at least three witnesses earlier on the trail and was far away from his vehicle?

How do we know he never murdered or assaulted anyone in previous years?

I think it is possible that he knew the two girls were going to be there that afternoon, if he happened to be also one of the people in KK's dropbox or watching the snapchat stories...

 

[mrjitty]

IIRC first murders are often not that well planned. The killer loses control and there will be signs of overkill etc

You can see this in any number of cases

 

[girlhasnoname]

That's my fear.
That he will say he could have dropped that bullet on a prior visit to the death scene

RA said he'd never been on the land where the girls were found, had not loaned his gun out to anyone else, and it had never been stolen. He boxed himself in concrete with those replies, no way that evidence won't be heard IMO

<snipped>

When investigators interviewed Mr Allen in 2017, he admitted being in the area of the Monon High Bridge, an abandoned rail bridge, just outside the town of Delphi, on the day the girls were killed.

But he said he had never been in the area where the bullet was found and has strongly denied any involvement in their deaths.

<snipped>

In another interview on 13 October 2022, Mr Allen had “no explanation” as to how the spent bullet ended up in between the bodies of the two teenage victims, the affidavit states.
The accused killer said he had “not been on the property where the unspent round was found, that he did not know the property owner, and that he had no explanation as to why a round cycled through his firearm would be at that location,” it says. The property owner – Ron Logan – was also previously tied to the case. He died in 2020.


How police pinned the Delphi murders on Richard Allen
MOO

 

[Boxer]

According to this article Indiana has the insanity defense.

Judge allowing insanity defense for man accused of killing Officer Breann Leath

Judge Mark Stoner ruled that Elliahs Dorsey can plead insanity as he faces trial for the murder of IMPD officer Breann Leath

www.wrtv.com

Then there is this woman who killed her daughter and did very little prison time-

Judi L. Noe was sentenced in March 2005 to five years in prison after pleading guilty but mentally ill to reckless homicide for drowning her daughter, Brieana Jaide Noe, then keeping her decomposing body in an apartment for nearly three weeks.

Woman Who Drowned Daughter Gains Early Release

Prosecutors and the father of a drowned girl are protesting a judge's decision to allow the 2-year-old's mother, who pleaded guilty in the death, to be released early from prison.

www.wave3.com

Yes. They have "guilty but mentally ill." Pleading Guilty and asking for the judge to tailor consequences taking mental illness into account. Mercy of the court.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes. They have "guilty but mentally ill." Pleading Guilty and asking for the judge to tailor consequences taking mental illness into account. Mervy if the court.

Right, no Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity in IN, thank goodness.

 

[Niner]

So - nothing on the docket for next hearing??

@FrostedGlass

 

[FrostedGlass]

So - nothing on the docket for next hearing??

@FrostedGlass

Just the trial date:

06/16/2023

Motion Filed Ex Parte Motion for Order Authorizing Expert at a Public Expense, Incorporating Memorandum in Support Filed By::Allen, Richard M.

01/08/2024

Jury Trial Session: 01/08/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/09/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/10/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/11/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/12/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/15/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/16/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/17/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/18/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/19/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/22/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/23/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/24/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/25/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/26/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

 

[Niner]

Just the trial date:

06/16/2023

Motion Filed Ex Parte Motion for Order Authorizing Expert at a Public Expense, Incorporating Memorandum in Support Filed By::Allen, Richard M.

01/08/2024

Jury Trial Session: 01/08/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/09/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/10/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/11/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/12/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/15/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/16/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/17/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/18/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/19/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/22/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/23/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/24/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/25/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Session: 01/26/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ

Okay - thanks! Will check back in about a week I guess - unless someone sees one earlier than that!

 

[arielilane]

Anticipate it will be one of the days beginning with the week of Tuesday, June 20.
Reposting June 15 tweet (bbm) as a friendly reminder:

NEW: the judge in the Richard Allen case says her office will remove the seal from many documents that have been filed and kept secret.  The documents are going to be published on a website next week.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1669442918069817367

https://twitter.com/angelaganote

 

[Dhighsmith]

I wonder if this trial might go the way of the Stauch one. Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity defense. If his confessions are solid, the defense may have no other legal recourse than to try for NGRI. That he suffered psychosis and didn't know what he was doing. Suddenly thought he was in Nam. Or his other identities did it. It won't fly because of his behaviors before and after, especially if the Prosecution can establish an online link, via catfishing and CSAM but the defense may be forced to concede he did it, he just wasn't in his right mind when he did.

Varies by state, I think, but I wonder if the defense would have to prove insanity to a jury or if the prosecution has to prove sanity...

Either way, I hope he is kept safe from himself, conditions and others so he's alive and healthy to face a full jury of his peers.

Jmo

My understanding is the defense would have to prove documented history of mental illness, he knew right from wrong by avoiding detection after the crime. If found guilty, Judge could present as guilty with mental illness but that is still a conviction.

 

[TL4S]

How do we know he never murdered or assaulted anyone in previous years?

I think it is possible that he knew the two girls were going to be there that afternoon, if he happened to be also one of the people in KK's dropbox or watching the snapchat stories...

You're right, we don't know for sure that he's never murdered or assaulted anyone before. That's true. I personally think it was his first murder, but that's total speculation.

And what you're saying about him knowing the girls might be there is exactly where I'm at because the idea of this being random, from what we know now, just seems less likely to me than it did at the beginning. Imo, it does feel like an opportunistic crime, and not one well planned out, but also not a crime he had fantasized about and hunted on a regular basis around the trails waiting for the right opportunity. It feels instead like he knew on short notice that the girls would be leaving for the bridge soon, so he went to where he knew he could park, parked semi-concealed, walked with purpose to the bridge, went out on the bridge to scope out a spot to take them once he got them, likely hid and waited on the north end of the bridge until the girls stopped taking their photos atop the bridge, then crossed after them, cornering them on the south end. So however he knew they were coming, whether by snapchat or otherwise, it does feel to me like he knew, acted fast, and targeted them. JMO.