IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #164

[kittythehare]

Yes. They have "guilty but mentally ill." Pleading Guilty and asking for the judge to tailor consequences taking mental illness into account. Mercy of the court.

Mercy of the court, indeed.
His first letter...

 

[Dhighsmith]

This says Indiana does have a Not Guilty By Reason of Insanity option-

For nearly two centuries, the concept of the “insanity defense” has been debated and changed in Indiana’s Appellate Courts. Central to the debate is the recognition that, when a mental illness renders a person incapable of distinguishing right from wrong, the law excuses their would be criminal conduct. Left with answering the question whether a particular individual in any criminal case meets that criteria is the “trier of fact” or the jury or trial judge. But what exactly are they looking for and does any evidence carry more emphasis over others?

What Must You Prove?
As a general rule, the State of Indiana must prove each element of a crime beyond a reasonable doubt to convict a defendant. However, an individual may avoid criminal responsibility by invoking the insanity defense. Such a defense places an affirmative burden (meaning the defendant has the responsibility) to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence (a lower standard than beyond a reasonable doubt) that: 1) They suffer from a mental disease or defect (or a severe abnormal mental condition that grossly and demonstrably impairs their perception) and 2) that the mental disease or defect rendered them unable to appreciate the wrongfulness of their conduct at the time of the offense. Important to note here is that proof of mental illness alone is not enough.

This defense is extremely important since an individual may ultimately be found: 1) Guilty (as any other criminal defendant), 2) Not Guilty (as any other criminal defendant) OR 3) Guilty but Mentally Ill (requiring an evaluation and treatment of mental illness during period of incarceration, however they are imposed the same criminal sentence as a standard conviction of guilt) 4) Not Guilty by Reason of Insanity (which may result in an individual being ordered to a period of civil commitment if the trial judge finds, by clear and convincing evidence, that the person is mentally ill and either dangerous or gravely disabled.

What Is The "Insanity Defense" In Indiana

For nearly two centuries, the concept of the “insanity defense” has been debated and changed in Indiana’s Appellate Courts. Central to the debate is the recognition that, when a mental illness renders a person incapable of distinguishing right from wrong, the law excuses their would be criminal...

banksbrower.com

Also, I looked at the accused's docket named in the news article I cited as an example (E. Dorsey) in my previous post and he has a Safekeeping Order and is being held at IDOC pending trial (lots of transport orders). And a motion was granted for cameras in the June 2 hearing so Indiana is finally getting up to speed with media in the courtroom!

Thanks for sharing info, supports my earlier comments. Experience limited to Georgia and Alabama, risk of outdated/incomplete online material for other states is worrisome.

 

[Teche]

MOO a bit drunk, hostile, angry and possibly somewhat suicidal would cook up the arrogance and drive to kidnap some young girls walkingninto nowhere, with a half baked intent to rape and the murder was the natural outcome of kidnapping.

Do we know if RA had the day or time off from work the day the girls were murdered?

 

[twall]

Any word on exactly when court docs will be made available?

No, I would say Friday at the earliest if we're lucky. It's Indiana after all, things move as slow as molasses here! And today is a holiday, not sure if Carroll County courthouse was open but I do know Allen County (where judge is from) was closed because I saw it on the news.

Here’s which government offices will be closed Monday

Monday, June 19 is Juneteenth, a date recognizing when freedom finally came to thousands of Black slaves in the United States.

www.wane.com

 

[Boxer]

Do we know if RA had the day or time off from work the day the girls were murdered?

Not in public record AFAIK.
He said he was on the trail, so have assume he was not skipping work but had time off that afternoon 2/13/17

 

[kittythehare]

No, I would say Friday at the earliest if we're lucky. It's Indiana after all, things move as slow as molasses here! And today is a holiday, not sure if Carroll County courthouse was open but I do know Allen County (where judge is from) was closed because I saw it on the news.

Here’s which government offices will be closed Monday

Monday, June 19 is Juneteenth, a date recognizing when freedom finally came to thousands of Black slaves in the United States.

www.wane.com

Yeah, could well be Friday and could be minimal too.
Trial set for Jan '24.
that's a long wait.
I'm just steeling myself for the minimum.
I assume the murder podcast people will have it first?
They submitted the FOI which is what we're anticipating.

He's now in a bad state and i wonder whether that will weigh in the Judge's opinion on what must remain sealed?
Is it likely that the unsealing will exacerbate his condition?
How does he feel about the public knowing more?

will he chuck his tablet again or remain impassive verging on catatonic?
Maybe it matters nothing to him..

 

[UltraViolet4545]

MOO— I have always felt this was a random, sexually motivated crime. I don’t think he has killed anyone before, but I do think he has sexually devious behavior in his past. I don’t think he knew the girls would be on the bridge that day. I do think he acted entirely alone. He happened to be there, saw them, and whatever sick urge he has in his head took over. There was no big plan or motive that will ever make sense.

 

[FrostedGlass]

New today:

06/20/2023	Appearance Filed Appearance by Attorneys - Aaron M. Ridlen; Hannah M. Deters For Party: Indiana Department of Correction File Stamp: 06/19/2023
06/20/2023	Motion to Quash Filed Motion to Quash Subpoena or Enter Protective Order Filed By: Indiana Department of Correction File Stamp: 06/19/2023

 

[FrostedGlass]

New Murder Sheet

The Delphi Murders: Fallout From the Suppression Hearing That Wasn't

On June 15, 2023, there was a major pre-trial hearing in the case against Richard Allen. Let's regroup over some of the issues that were alluded to in that hearing. Here's our coverage of the June 15, 2023 hearing in the case against Richard Allen...

art19.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

Mercy of the court, indeed.
His first letter...

Exactly, his letter to the Judge (and it's been reported he's written several) sounded so fake, but in a sly, manipulative kind of way.

MOO

 

[Falling Down]

He got videoed at Harvestore going west on 300. His house is west across i25.
Wonder what he was doing to the east? Drinking is my guess. Beers in Flora? Or?

Good questions.

C.R. 200 crosses over the highway near where he lived, it intersects with the main drag through Delphi by there. He could've taken 200 to 425 to 300.

JMO

 

[kittythehare]

Exactly, his letter to the Judge (and it's been reported he's written several) sounded so fake, but in a sly, manipulative kind of way.

MOO

i read it as quaint at the time..
same quaint as
'he is my person'
That's why I'm almost consumed with what it is that made him tick, apart from murdering..
was it some kind of religious quirkiness/
Why did he do this?
Who is he?
how does he think?
How did he think habitually all those years?
What grail exactly did he believe he was serving?

I'm not at all sure he was sly though..
He possibly is now cos he's fighting for his life..
I'm trying to avoid descriptive words denoting deep countryside and very little street sense.
Does he even know what he did?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Angela Ganote reported this morning that the documents should come out tomorrow or Thursday.
The one document I hope is in there is the search warrant for RA’s house, property and car and the list of what LE walked away with.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Another filing:

06/20/2023

Document Filed Filed By: Carroll County Sheriff's Department File Stamp: 06/20/2023

 

[arielilane]

Edited to add - so thankful to Kevin Greenlee, Esq for the unsealing of document work he's done for Abby and Libby's case.

Responding to a request filed by a podcaster and attorney, Allen County Judge Fran Gull announced that she would release some sealed documents in the Delphi murder case against Richard Allen this week.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1671197501393711104

Judge promises release of Delphi documents this week

DELPHI, Ind. (WXIN) — Responding to a request filed by a podcaster and attorney, Allen County Judge Fran Gull announced that she would release some sealed documents in the Delphi murder case agains…

www.mywabashvalley.com

Updated: Jun 20, 2023 / 12:05 PM EDT

DELPHI, Ind. (WXIN) — Responding to a request filed by a podcaster and attorney, Allen County Judge Fran Gull announced that she would release some sealed documents in the Delphi murder case against Richard Allen this week.

[...]

Podcaster Kevin Greenlee of “The Murder Sheet” recently filed a request with Judge Gull to reconsider the seals.

”In this case, things were being filed, the defense was not asking for them to be sealed, the prosecution was not requesting them to be sealed, but they were all getting sealed,” said Greenlee. “That violates the procedure and actually resulted in a lot of confusion for the public about what’s actually going on in this important case.”

Podcaster Aine Cain said the media and the public were left to examine court appearance statements and speculate on pertinent details of the case because of the secrecy.

 

[FrostedGlass]

There's a lot to talk about today.

First is the IN DOC motion to quash. Is that about RA's medical reports or something else? And what about the document filed by Carroll Co. sheriff's dept? Can't imagine what that could be.

Will the judge actually make the unsealed docs available to the public with a click of the mouse or will we still have to go the the county where the case is or buy the documents online?

MS talked a lot about Robert Baston without making any kind of a solid guess as to what role he's playing. Is he the companion who may also be snitching on RA? Or is he the inmate who wrote the letter to the court, which may be backing up RA's atty's comments about prison conditions?

 

[FrostedGlass]

MS brought up the Mike Thomas case again. Somehow Liggett is named but he isn't named as one of the 4 parties. I don't know what to make of the latest filing. Maybe one of our members can explain what's happening here.

Login to PacerMonitor

Login to PacerMonitor

www.pacermonitor.com

Friday, June 16, 2023
38		3 pgs order Opinion and Order Order Striking Document ~Util - Set Deadlines Fri 06/16 3:13 PM OPINION AND ORDER: The Court STRIKES the Stipulation of Dismissal with Prejudice as to Defendants Carroll County, Indiana, and Tobias Leazenby, in his Individual Capacity and Official Capacity as Sheriff of Carroll County, Indiana, Only37 . The Court SETS a deadline of 06/29/2023, for either (1) the Plaintiff to file a second amended complaint pursuant to Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 15(a)(2), to drop Defendants Carroll County, Indiana, Tobias Leazenby, and Tony Liggett and to proceed only against the Carroll County Sheriff's Office or (2) the parties to file a stipulation of dismissal that includes Defendant Carroll County Sheriff's Office. Signed by Judge Theresa L Springmann on 06/16/2023. (jdb)
Friday, June 09, 2023
37		motion Stipulation to Dismiss Fri 06/09 4:23 PM Joint STIPULATION to Dismiss Carroll County, Leazenby, Liggett, only with PREJUDICE by Defendant Carroll County, Indiana. (Hughes, Samuel)
Thursday, May 18, 2023
36		order Order ~Util - Set Deadlines Thu 05/18 11:25 AM ORDER: Parties directed to file dismissal papers by 7/3/2023 re35 Joint Notice of Settlement Pursuant to Local Rule 16-1(g). By Magistrate Judge Andrew P Rodovich on 5/18/2023. Text entry only. (tc)

 

[Justice101]

PURE speculation... BUT if the search warrant for his house is made public, I suspect the list of items taken might include: A gun (we already know that), blue jacket, a ring/necklace/garment of one or more of the girls, unfired bullets (lot number to trace, etc) and perhaps swabs of his car. There were also supposedly some pamphlets or magazines/books.

 

[FrostedGlass]

In this linked MS podcast before the current one, Rozzi asks Tony Liggett: "Did you ever go to Westville to see the conditions Richard Allen was kept under?"
Liggett answered: "Yes, I have been to Westville. I went there to try to interview Richard Allen.' He (TL) went on to say the interview didn't happen. MS said by the looks of surprise at the defense table, they believed defense didn't have any idea that TL tried to interview their client.

So how does anyone in law enforcement think they can interview an inmate, for any reason, without their atty present?

The Delphi Murders: Possible Confessions, Due Process, and Public Access to Court Filings

On June 15, 2023, major news about the Delphi murders broke. In a due process hearing, defense and prosecution each confirmed that Richard Allen made incriminating statements about the case. Judge Fran Gull also indicated that she will rule in favor of The Murder Sheet's motion to provide more...

art19.com

 

[twall]

In this linked MS podcast before the current one, Rozzi asks Tony Liggett: "Did you ever go to Westville to see the conditions Richard Allen was kept under?"
Liggett answered: "Yes, I have been to Westville. I went there to try to interview Richard Allen.' He (TL) went on to say the interview didn't happen. MS said by the looks of surprise at the defense table, they believed defense didn't have any idea that TL tried to interview their client.

So how does anyone in law enforcement think they can interview an inmate, for any reason, without their atty present?

The Delphi Murders: Possible Confessions, Due Process, and Public Access to Court Filings

On June 15, 2023, major news about the Delphi murders broke. In a due process hearing, defense and prosecution each confirmed that Richard Allen made incriminating statements about the case. Judge Fran Gull also indicated that she will rule in favor of The Murder Sheet's motion to provide more...

art19.com

I would like to know the date TL tried to interview RA. Was it early on before RA had council appointed?