IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #164

[somequestions]

Just speculation, I think he attempted to destroy it and assumed that he had.


Way back, shortly after we all learned that Libby had actually caught their killer on video. We were told that they had experts come in to do work on the phone. They would not have needed that if no damage was done to it

.JMO

I thought maybe the killer tossed Liberty German's phone into the creek. Clothes were found in the creek so maybe the phone was too? Tossing it in the creek would also be a good way of destroying fingerprint evidence.

I suppose these small details do not matter now, but maybe the answer will be revealed later in the documents when they are released or at trial(if there is one due to the incriminating statements made by Richard Allen).

If the killer found the phone on Libby or where she dropped it on the ground, would it still be recording voices at least? Would the killer see that the phone was recording audio before throwing it into the creek?

I think most people if they bought a 2016 vehicle would want to keep the seats clean. Maybe Richard Allen had seat covers or brought towels with him? With no seat covers, maybe police were able to obtain evidence of Deer Creek water soaked into his driver's seat?

I think about these questions.

 

[Falling Down]

Could he have been there, not been *aware* of the property line? Were there private property signs posted / no trespassing signs to alert people that it was not part of the trail? Is it possible that he simply didn't know he was on RL's property (if infact he ever was at some point?)

On both visits I've made to the MHB area, 2017 and 2020, I saw property signs posted. RL's and the Mears property, adjacent to the cemetery, then 3 years later I walked the trails and saw signs posted along the main trail indicating private property was located on the east side of the trail, weathered signs which looked to have been there for years.

I've thought since early on the killer was familiar enough with the land along the creek to know there were property lines, and that much of the land is private. Meaning it was possible the killer had been there many times before, perhaps even trespassed on those properties a bunch of times.

IMO RA fits that profile, additionally he would have had access to intimate details of the private lives of folks in the community, via his occupation(s), including folks who lived along the creek.

JMO

 

[Justice101]

If I am not mistaken, there was already a makeshift trail leading from the cemetery down to the approximate location of of the CS.

In fact, when RL was speaking with the reporters on his property after the news of the murders was made public, they all walked down that path themselves. There was only one fence line and that was on top near the cemetery.

If the girls bolted across the creek, no doubt RA would easily know that heading up that hill would put him somewhere near the cemetery or otherwise near the road.

 

[Falling Down]

If I am not mistaken, there was already a makeshift trail leading from the cemetery down to the approximate location of of the CS.

In fact, when RL was speaking with the reporters on his property after the news of the murders was made public, they all walked down that path themselves. There was only one fence line and that was on top near the cemetery.

If the girls bolted across the creek, no doubt RA would easily know that heading up that hill would put him somewhere near the cemetery or otherwise near the road.

Trail which was a driveway to the abandoned gravel pit near to where the girls were found. Leads to the RL property close to where it meets the cemetery.

Another trail leads west and uphill from the CS to the main trail where it meets the bridge, I could see it plain as day in Oct. 2020. One or maybe two other trails are on the Mears property. All short trails, the longest would be a 1/4 mile or so along the creekside.

My suspicions early on were the perp left through the cemetery, wasn't until more recent times that it looks like that's been confirmed. I've said since early on the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, cemetery is really close to the CS and C.R. 300 is right there. Easy path out of the gorge.

JMO

 

[arielilane]

A reminder only! bbm

Tweet date: 6/15/2023

NEW: the judge in the Richard Allen case says her office will remove the seal from many documents that have been filed and kept secret.  The documents are going to be published on a website next week.

https://twitter.com/angelaganote

 

[arielilane]

In a nutshell it looks an error was probably made in Doc 37, because it doesn't make sense when looked at in conjunction with previous filings. The Court basically is telling the parties to either correct Doc 37, or file an amendment if they intend something different. It is likely 37 will be corrected before June 29, 2023, and the case will be dismissed against all parties (it looks like this is the intent from prior filings...but again, there is language missing in doc 37 that has the Court confused).

, welcome, @CGBSpender!

 

[Vaderman]

*insert meme of Judge Judy impatiently tapping her watch here RE: the unsealing of some of these documents*

 

[Boxer]

If I am not mistaken, there was already a makeshift trail leading from the cemetery down to the approximate location of of the CS.

In fact, when RL was speaking with the reporters on his property after the news of the murders was made public, they all walked down that path themselves. There was only one fence line and that was on top near the cemetery.

If the girls bolted across the creek, no doubt RA would easily know that heading up that hill would put him somewhere near the cemetery or otherwise near the road.

There are deer paths and people paths through the area. Where they were is a pretty steep drop from street level down to the bank of the creek. Someone takes a walk on the paths on Youtube, its interesting.
There us a deer type trail NE from the north end bridge abutment that runs behind a field to the cemetery, and connecte to RLs field that runs along 300.
I believe he sank into the tree line on that deer trail and watched the girls pass.

 

[TL4S]

Trail which was a driveway to the abandoned gravel pit near to where the girls were found. Leads to the RL property close to where it meets the cemetery.

Another trail leads west and uphill from the CS to the main trail where it meets the bridge, I could see it plain as day in Oct. 2020. One or maybe two other trails are on the Mears property. All short trails, the longest would be a 1/4 mile or so along the creekside.

My suspicions early on were the perp left through the cemetery, wasn't until more recent times that it looks like that's been confirmed. I've said since early on the shortest distance between two points is a straight line, cemetery is really close to the CS and C.R. 300 is right there. Easy path out of the gorge.

JMO

Many folks would disagree, but imo, this crime was not well planned out, and even if the killer was familiar with the trail and bridge, I don't think he had likely ever before been to the exact spot the murders took place. He likely didn't even know there was a trail that led up to the back of the cemetery or 300. JMO. However, once he and the girls ended up there, that trail would have been an obvious way out to wherever it took him and he probably had a sense it would be near the road. IMO, all that mattered to him was not going back via the trail where he could be seen. He may not have ever even taken that trail up the cemetery, either. He could have left any way through the woods and come out at any point along 300. We just don't know.

 

[girlhasnoname]

If I am not mistaken, there was already a makeshift trail leading from the cemetery down to the approximate location of of the CS.

In fact, when RL was speaking with the reporters on his property after the news of the murders was made public, they all walked down that path themselves. There was only one fence line and that was on top near the cemetery.

If the girls bolted across the creek, no doubt RA would easily know that heading up that hill would put him somewhere near the cemetery or otherwise near the road.

Respectfully, I don't think RA ever lost control of the girls so they couldn't have bolted anywhere. He had his Sig on them and marched them exactly where he wanted them. He was in control of them the entire time after he showed the gun and said "Guys, down the hill". That literally makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I can't imagine their fear.

I do think this was planned, he targeted Abby and Libby. How and what the connection to the online CSAM and KK is unclear to me, but I don't think it's a coincidence he was just strolling the bridge that day, arriving moments before them, on a rare day off from school, equipped with weapons, and then decided to go nuts and murder 2 innocent girls.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Respectfully, I don't think RA ever lost control of the girls so they couldn't have bolted anywhere. He had his Sig on them and marched them exactly where he wanted them. He was in control of them the entire time after he showed the gun and said "Guys, down the hill". That literally makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I can't imagine their fear.

I do think this was planned, he targeted Abby and Libby. How and what the connection to the online CSAM and KK is unclear to me, but I don't think it's a coincidence he was just strolling the bridge that day, arriving moments before them, on a rare day off from school, equipped with weapons, and then decided to go nuts and murder 2 innocent girls.

JMO

If it was planned I do think not related to Kline, who was a seperate and weirdly more benign.
Libby had "Yellow (Yubo)" on her phone, nicknamed Tinder for teens which is/was more dangerous than Snapchat, Instagram, and Kik all of which she had.
She had dangerous exposure on the internet so it seems likely there could be two or more seperate potential perpetrators from that exposure who posed a threat.

 

[Boxer]

Respectfully, I don't think RA ever lost control of the girls so they couldn't have bolted anywhere. He had his Sig on them and marched them exactly where he wanted them. He was in control of them the entire time after he showed the gun and said "Guys, down the hill". That literally makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I can't imagine their fear.

I do think this was planned, he targeted Abby and Libby. How and what the connection to the online CSAM and KK is unclear to me, but I don't think it's a coincidence he was just strolling the bridge that day, arriving moments before them, on a rare day off from school, equipped with weapons, and then decided to go nuts and murder 2 innocent girls.

JMO

I agree. I wish that they made a break for it but a handgun keeps control of people more or less absolutely.

 

[Ivy rose]

I saw an email from Allen Co. saying that they would be unsealing 135 documents which is way more than I expected.

 

[Ivy rose]

Respectfully, I don't think RA ever lost control of the girls so they couldn't have bolted anywhere. He had his Sig on them and marched them exactly where he wanted them. He was in control of them the entire time after he showed the gun and said "Guys, down the hill". That literally makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. I can't imagine their fear.

I do think this was planned, he targeted Abby and Libby. How and what the connection to the online CSAM and KK is unclear to me, but I don't think it's a coincidence he was just strolling the bridge that day, arriving moments before them, on a rare day off from school, equipped with weapons, and then decided to go nuts and murder 2 innocent girls.

JMO

Do you think he planned on taking them to the area where they were found? If so, why wouldn’t he have made contact before they crossed the bridge and taken them through the woods that way so that they wouldn’t have to go through the creek?

 

[somequestions]

Do you think he planned on taking them to the area where they were found? If so, why wouldn’t he have made contact before they crossed the bridge and taken them through the woods that way so that they wouldn’t have to go through the creek?

That is a question I wonder about too. The only explanation is that he must have been lurking around them, but had not yet decided what he was going to do until he went out onto the bridge, whatever side of the bridge he came from.

We can do some timing math and it makes one wonder. According to the PCA Liberty German and Abigail Williams were dropped off at the Mears entrance at 1:49pm. From the Mears entrance walking to the bridge takes 5 1/2 minutes. Liberty German took a picture of the entire bridge before her and Abigail Williams stepped onto it at 2:05 pm per HLN news. Even if the girls immediately got out of the car and walked directly to the bridge the latest they could have arrived at the Monon High Bridge trail entrance is 1:59 pm. This gives them approximately 10 minutes to be messing around before they ever get to the start of the bridge.

Here is a question: If the witness claims to have seen Abigail Williams and Liberty German halfway between the Mears entrance and the start of the bridge after seeing Richard Allen on platform 1, when did Richard Allen leave platform 1? We know he was not on it at 2:05 pm per the Liberty German photo.

If Richard Allen left platform 1 and headed back towards the Mears entrance, he must have passed Abigail Williams and Liberty German closer to the bridge than halfway since the witness who left before him stated she saw who she thought was Abby and Libby halfway down the trail from the Mears entrance.

The longer Richard Allen stays on the platform or anywhere on the Monon High Bridge, the closer Abigail Williams and Liberty German would get to crossing paths with him in a much shorter time frame.

The only theory that seems to make sense is that Richard Allen was off the Monon High Bridge by 2:05pm, but then waited for 8 minutes before he decided to go through with abducting Abby and Libby off the southeast side of the bridge. If he did decide to come back onto the Monon High Bridge, it had to be after 2:07pm, when Liberty German took the picture of Abigail Williams on the bridge because in the background nobody is on the bridge.

Maybe the reason Liberty German started recording was not because she was scared of the person. Maybe she was scared of the gun?

Did any of the witnesses state they could see the outline of a gun in the jacket? If a person has a gun in their right pocket and people pass on the person's left it would be harder to see the gun. In the 2:07pm photo of Abigail Williams she is farther to right than the bridge person walking the same direction in the 2:13 video. I wondered why she was further to the right in the 2:07pm photo?

Libby's positioning in the 2:07pm photo is from the left. Libby's positioning in the 2:13pm video is from the right. I know it might not mean anything.

 

[FromGermany1]

I just remembered, that LE (?) started their search 1/4 mile (or 1/2 mile, I'm not sure atm) further West of the CS.
Why did they do that, what was the reason to begin exactly at this point?? Did we ever hear of the cause, why they searched at that side of the creek and why at that point first?
To me it makes less sense today than in February 2017 .....

 

[FrostedGlass]

I just remembered, that LE (?) started their search 1/4 mile (or 1/2 mile, I'm not sure atm) further West of the CS.
Why did they do that, what was the reason to begin exactly at this point?? Did we ever hear of the cause, why they searched at that side of the creek and why at that point first?
To me it makes less sense today than in February 2017 .....

Maybe when the judge unseals documents, things will begin to make sense. I'm hopeful.

 

[Falling Down]

I just remembered, that LE (?) started their search 1/4 mile (or 1/2 mile, I'm not sure atm) further West of the CS.
Why did they do that, what was the reason to begin exactly at this point?? Did we ever hear of the cause, why they searched at that side of the creek and why at that point first?
To me it makes less sense today than in February 2017 .....

1/4 - 1/2 mile west of the CS is where the bridge is located.

 

[FromGermany1]

1/4 - 1/2 mile west of the CS is where the bridge is located.

Then I am wrong with it. It wasn't the bridge, where they started, but to the West of the bridge. Idk, how to find the description of the starting point after so many years.

 

[kittythehare]

So, have the documents been unsealed?