IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #164

[FrostedGlass]

Well, if you're kindergarten level, I'm definitely somewhere between birth and infancy. I don't understand 85% of what's going on in court documents.

I don't really know what exact documents are even considered court documents. I'm assuming not all search warrants carried out during the investigation would be included, like RL's, BBR, Wabash River, or either of the two Peru house searches, if nothing ties them to RA. What if there's something in a document that is related to the murders but not RA directly? Will that be on his docket? What about witness interviews? Or suspect interviews? I remember in KAK's case, his 2020 interview was only briefly visible on KAK's docket when MS got it, but then it was taken down (or sealed?). Are these the type of things that the judge has discretion over what is getting made public or not?

Or are the court documents just the motions and affidavits we know about during the time of arrest and after?

Sorry if I sound ignorant, but...I am!

We really haven't had a need to learn all about court documents. Your posts never sound ignorant. If we get to see the actual documents, that will help a lot. Hopefully someone will come along and give us some insight.

I was thinking about discovery entries and what they contain. Would the judge have to go though all of those to see if something in there could be made available to the public?

I think police interviews are usually kept secret; us seeing KAK's was a mistake. One of the murder cases I followed had many interviews but none of them were entered into the docket. I was surprised this morning when I saw G. Kirts ask for the grand jury transcripts. That's something we don't see but NML said there wasn't one in RA's case.

Judges have to power to keep things sealed from what I've seen in an appeal; but I don't know if they can independently seal docs or if they always need to be asked to do so by the attys. Somewhere I saw a list of things that could be permanently sealed.

 

[TL4S]

We really haven't had a need to learn all about court documents. Your posts never sound ignorant. If we get to see the actual documents, that will help a lot. Hopefully someone will come along and give us some insight.

I was thinking about discovery entries and what they contain. Would the judge have to go though all of those to see if something in there could be made available to the public?

I think police interviews are usually kept secret; us seeing KAK's was a mistake. One of the murder cases I followed had many interviews but none of them were entered into the docket. I was surprised this morning when I saw G. Kirts ask for the grand jury transcripts. That's something we don't see but NML said there wasn't one in RA's case.

Judges have to power to keep things sealed from what I've seen in an appeal; but I don't know if they can independently seal docs or if they always need to be asked to do so by the attys. Somewhere I saw a list of things that could be permanently sealed.

I'm just not sure how much to get my hopes up. In another case, I've seen all the motions, warrants for phone and social media accounts, search warrants and returns, DNA results, etc. Not sure if we'll see all that here or not.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Some common pretrial motions, maybe some of these apply here. I'm unsure because of the gag order, but the Moscow Idaho killings have released a ton of motions and responses by the State and Defense and they are also under a gag order.

• Motion to Discover (asking for a release of evidence): Before trial, both parties exchange information regarding witnesses and evidence they will prevent at trial. The point of a trial is not to win, it's to get to the truth. Each party needs time to prepare, and that includes time to prepare to rebut what the other side has said. A motion to discover is a request to the judge to order the other side to share evidence. A Motion to Depose asks for a prospective witness to be interviewed.
• A Competency Motion asks the court to first determine if the defendant is competent to stand trial.
• Motion to Dismiss: The defense may ask the judge to make a legal ruling that there is not enough evidence to prove a crime or that the evidence that has been obtained doesn't constitute a crime. They are asking that the charges be dismissed and no trial take place.
• Motion to Change Venue: In a high-profile criminal case, the defense or prosecution may be concerned that the trial will not be fair because pre-trial publicity would make it hard to find an impartial jury. An attorney may ask for a change of location. This may be awarded in heavily publicized cases where the jury pool could be prejudiced against the defendant.
• Motion to Suppress: In this case, the defense or the prosecution asks the judge to restrict some evidence or statements from being introduced at trial. If the police did not have "probable cause" to arrest the defendant in the first place, the defense attorney may file a motion to suppress statements made to the police before the arrest. A defense attorney could ask for a motion to suppress inadmissible evidence that was illegally obtained or beyond the scope of a search warrant. They may ask to suppress certain witnesses who have a conflict of interest. Or, for example, a prosecutor may ask that an elderly neighbor with Alzheimer's disease be excluded as not legally competent to testify. Motions in limine is a legal term that refers to a motion to exclude evidence that may have some value at trial when there is a greater danger that the evidence would be unfairly prejudicial or misleading or would confuse the jury.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I'm looking at the Kohberger case and I'm amazed at how different it is from Indiana cases. Okmulgee OK is similar to Idaho in how transparent it is. IN needs to change its secretive ways, imo.

Motion/Order to preserve crime scene and evidence is something I haven't seen before. Surely we do that in IN?

 

[arielilane]

Nothing new that isn't already known; however, video also reaffirmed statement from MS just as @StarryStarryNight did.


An anticipated release of documents related to the case of Richard Allen has been delayed by several days.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672303727183536131

https://twitter.com/CourtTV

Delphi Document Release Delayed

An anticipated release of documents related to the case of Richard Allen has been delayed by several days.

www.courttv.com

 

[StarryStarryNight]

We really haven't had a need to learn all about court documents. Your posts never sound ignorant. If we get to see the actual documents, that will help a lot. Hopefully someone will come along and give us some insight.

I was thinking about discovery entries and what they contain. Would the judge have to go though all of those to see if something in there could be made available to the public?

I think police interviews are usually kept secret; us seeing KAK's was a mistake. One of the murder cases I followed had many interviews but none of them were entered into the docket. I was surprised this morning when I saw G. Kirts ask for the grand jury transcripts. That's something we don't see but NML said there wasn't one in RA's case.

Judges have to power to keep things sealed from what I've seen in an appeal; but I don't know if they can independently seal docs or if they always need to be asked to do so by the attys. Somewhere I saw a list of things that could be permanently sealed.

I do agree that there is a difference between court documents and motions and discovery which would be evidence. I doubt we’ll see anything considered evidence.
It would be great to get some interview transcripts, etc but I expect we won’t.
I’m hoping we will at least get RA’s search warrant and enough random things we can try to piece together into some meaningful information.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Notice the different dates on this entry. I assume this became an official record once the judge signed it but I'm unsure about the "order issued" date. Why the time lag? Is it because the person responsible for imputing actions to the docket was running behind or did the judge want to wait for a few days for the order to go into effect?

06/22/2023

Order Issued Comes now the Court and having communicated with the parties on Defendant Allen's Motion for Order on Continuing Disclosure of Defendant's Mental Health Records, now grants said Motion and orders the Indiana Department of Corrections and/or any other departments, law enforcement agencies, and/or individuals assuming jurisdiction over the care and custody of Richard M. Allen to release to Attorney Bradley A. Rozzi and/or Andrew Baldwin, upon the written request or either, any and all mental health records associated with Richard M. Allen, without the necessity of the execution of consents and/or waivers by Defendant Allen or his agents Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 06/16/2023

 

[FrostedGlass]

OT: Never trust spellcheck to catch your typos. I never knew "imputing" was a word. Too late to edit it in my above post.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Nothing new that isn't already known; however, video also reaffirmed statement from MS just as @StarryStarryNight did.


An anticipated release of documents related to the case of Richard Allen has been delayed by several days.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672303727183536131

https://twitter.com/CourtTV

Delphi Document Release Delayed

An anticipated release of documents related to the case of Richard Allen has been delayed by several days.

www.courttv.com

This photo of RA looks just like BridgeGuy IMO. After the murders he gained weight and grew out his goatee in order to camouflage his appearance. Hiding in plain sight....

MOO

 

[photographer4]

Nothing new that isn't already known; however, video also reaffirmed statement from MS just as @StarryStarryNight did.


An anticipated release of documents related to the case of Richard Allen has been delayed by several days.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1672303727183536131

https://twitter.com/CourtTV

Delphi Document Release Delayed

An anticipated release of documents related to the case of Richard Allen has been delayed by several days.

www.courttv.com

I am really put off by this judge. I don't like that she keeps taking things under "advisement" and deciding whenever it suits her, and now this delay in the doc release - for docs that should already have been public??? Come. On!

 

[photographer4]

I do agree that there is a difference between court documents and motions and discovery which would be evidence. I doubt we’ll see anything considered evidence.
It would be great to get some interview transcripts, etc but I expect we won’t.
I’m hoping we will at least get RA’s search warrant and enough random things we can try to piece together into some meaningful information.

I doubt we get anything at all aside a bunch of pages full of black streaks. LOL

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I am really put off by this judge. I don't like that she keeps taking things under "advisement" and deciding whenever it suits her, and now this delay in the doc release - for docs that should already have been public??? Come. On!

I know she has other cases but she is way too slow.
Two months to hear arguments on an “emergency motion” about a suspects treatment etc still just blows my mind. Now the motion has been debunked shown to be a complete fabrication, but it seems emergency motions should be shown some urgency.

 

[photographer4]

I know she has other cases but she is way too slow.
Two months to hear arguments on an “emergency motion” about a suspects treatment etc still just blows my mind. Now the motion has been debunked shown to be a complete fabrication, but it seems emergency motions should be shown some urgency.

Right? A delay like that could be catastrophic for the case! Especially if there was evidence to support and it couldn't be debunked! And this no electronics in the courtroom? She is hiding.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Right? A delay like that could be catastrophic for the case! Especially if there was evidence to support and it couldn't be debunked! And this no electronics in the courtroom? She is hiding.

They are all hiding.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Notice the different dates on this entry. I assume this became an official record once the judge signed it but I'm unsure about the "order issued" date. Why the time lag? Is it because the person responsible for imputing actions to the docket was running behind or did the judge want to wait for a few days for the order to go into effect?

06/22/2023

Order Issued Comes now the Court and having communicated with the parties on Defendant Allen's Motion for Order on Continuing Disclosure of Defendant's Mental Health Records, now grants said Motion and orders the Indiana Department of Corrections and/or any other departments, law enforcement agencies, and/or individuals assuming jurisdiction over the care and custody of Richard M. Allen to release to Attorney Bradley A. Rozzi and/or Andrew Baldwin, upon the written request or either, any and all mental health records associated with Richard M. Allen, without the necessity of the execution of consents and/or waivers by Defendant Allen or his agents Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 06/16/2023

6/16 was a Friday. I'm not surprised that it would take the weekend and a couple of days from the time it was signed by the Judge and when it was issued.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

6/16 was a Friday. I'm not surprised that it would take the weekend and a couple of days from the time it was signed by the Judge and when it was issued.

JMO

Why? I don't know how the process works.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I know she has other cases but she is way too slow.
Two months to hear arguments on an “emergency motion” about a suspects treatment etc still just blows my mind. Now the motion has been debunked shown to be a complete fabrication, but it seems emergency motions should be shown some urgency.

I understand how you feel. I can only imagine that this Judge is taking extra precautions and care before she makes a decision just based on the high profile of the case. (and appellate issues)

Maybe she had information that the motion was exaggerated beforehand, IDK. It would take time to get things subpoenaed and statements from Westerville also.

This gag order keeps us all in the dark unfortunately.

ALL MOO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I apologize for my frustration with this case at this time.
Like most of us, I have been here pretty much from the beginning, and I sometimes reach my limit on the idiocy that surrounds this case, and I apologize for that too.
The near complete silence and vacuum that has surrounded this case is…is…I’m tired of having to describe it. And now we know that LE was silent for nothing because they had nothing.
Indiana’s courts I’m sure are busy places right now trying to catch-up after Covid, but every other state is in the same boat.
The judge said, knowing they were busy, the documents would be out this past week. She said that when she could have said we’ll work hard to get them out as soon as possible. She said that when she could have said we will release documents as we clear them, taking some of the pressure off.
If you say it, do it. It was her choice to say it.
Libby and Abby are the most important people in this case. I can’t even remember the last time any Indiana official even mentioned their names. They deserve a lot better than an investigation that accidently finds their killer 5 years out, and a judge that forgot she was supposed be as transparent as possible with the public.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I know she has other cases but she is way too slow.
Two months to hear arguments on an “emergency motion” about a suspects treatment etc still just blows my mind. Now the motion has been debunked shown to be a complete fabrication, but it seems emergency motions should be shown some urgency.

You have more faith in the system than I do. I'm not convinced it was a "complete fabrication." I wish we could have heard the exact words the prison officials said about his treatment. Did they say 'it was all fabricated' or did they say 'RA has clean clothes, etc'?

If he was treated as his atty stated, how likely is it that the prison officials would admit it?

See my Joshua McLemore thread and know why I have deep concerns about how prisoners are sometimes kept. This is an awful case.

IN Joshua McLemore, 29, Died After 20 Days in Solitary Confinement at Jackson Co. Jail 08/ 2021. Fed. Lawsuit Filed

LE was called to his home for a welfare check. They ended up taking him to the hospital, where he pulled the nurse's hair, resulting in an arrest. It went downhill from there. There are truly disturbing pictures at this link...

www.websleuths.com

 

[arielilane]

I apologize for my frustration with this case at this time.
Like most of us, I have been here pretty much from the beginning, and I sometimes reach my limit on the idiocy that surrounds this case, and I apologize for that too.
The near complete silence and vacuum that has surrounded this case is…is…I’m tired of having to describe it. And now we know that LE was silent for nothing because they had nothing.
Indiana’s courts I’m sure are busy places right now trying to catch-up after Covid, but every other state is in the same boat.
The judge said, knowing they were busy, the documents would be out this past week. She said that when she could have said we’ll work hard to get them out as soon as possible. She said that when she could have said we will release documents as we clear them, taking some of the pressure off.
If you say it, do it. It was her choice to say it.
Libby and Abby are the most important people in this case. I can’t even remember the last time any Indiana official even mentioned their names. They deserve a lot better than an investigation that accidently finds their killer 5 years out, and a judge that forgot she was supposed be as transparent as possible with the public.

View attachment 430928

No need to apologize - there is nothing to apologize about. When it comes to this case frustration is the normal emotion, unfortunately. I don’t even want to imagine what Abby's & Libby’s families go through. I’m sure it does not get better or does not lessen or go away for them. A pain that is there forever.

I’ve been around this case since day one but didn’t stick around for long because I never had a good feeling about Indiana LE and the handling of the case. A lot of lurking. Of course I know nothing about how LE handle cases but my gut feeling told me differently. Yes, there were red flags with how LE handled this case.

The judge gave a sorry excuse. You’re on par and I agree with your comments. Judge needed to do better for the taxpayers. I am grateful for Kevin Greenlee, Esq and MS.

Yes! Abby & Libby are the most important children in this case. I agree with you 100% and thank you for posting their photo. MSM choses to post RA pics over Abby & Libby - the victims. It’s about Abby & Libby, two young girls who took a simple trail walk-on a day off from school and who lives ended so tragically. Senseless. What a sad world we live in that these children never made it back home.

All moo