IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19

HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

LATEST PRESS CONFERENCE 4/22/19

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

video of press conference from 2017 02/22/17: https://www.facebook.com/NewsCenter1...4728963476130/

Let's do this. Let's commit to getting this killer's picture and voice out there any possible way we can.

Pictures of Abby and Libby

Link to post with all Threads #1-98 (Courtesy of margarita25)

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Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
Link to Media Maps & Timelines #2 *No Discussion*

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Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Sillybilly]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tiff23fr]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

There has been a major cleanup on this thread tonight due to numerous TOS violations. Here are the RULES we all agreed to upon joining this site.

We have a thread dedicated to KAK HERE. If you have an update specific to any of his current charges, pending charges or news, it is to be posted on that thread. For example, dismissals, court appearances, etc.

This is an example of an article and subject matter that may be brought up for discussion on this thread. This pertains to KAK and Abby’s and Libby’s cases. Although sources such as this are approved, you personally have the right to decide how much credibility you give to them. Nevertheless, they remain approved sources here on Websleuths.

Regardless of what is posted in ANY approved source, RA’s family (to include photos) are completely off limits as of this post. They are victims. PERIOD.

If you’re going to reference or discuss a topic (even if it’s been brought up before), a link to an approved source must be provided. Otherwise, don’t mention it.

Decisions made by officials may not sit well with us, but they’re most often made for a reason.

And lastly, STAY ON TOPIC. Please and THANK YOU!

- Mad

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

If your post begins with any of the following, IT IS LIKELY AT RISK OF BEING REMOVED, along with any of its replies. Please take the time to find an approved source link to accompany the information you post.

“I thought I read somewhere…”

“I seem to remember hearing…”

“I’m not sure if I can bring this up, but…”

“I can’t remember where I heard this…”

OR

“This is just a rumor…”

Thanks,
Mad

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Gray Hughes has obtained Richard Allen’s voice from social media that we would not normally approve, so here’s how we are going to handle this. This is really a Gray area (yeah, I said that )

Obviously as RA is the accused, his voice is of great interest to all, and we would not be relevant in the true crime community if we disallowed it when it is so highly relevant.

After discussion with Tricia, the decision is that we will allow members to fully discuss the voice as heard on Gray’s podcast.

We will NOT allow direct linking to the wife’s social media accounts.

 

[MadMcGoo]

MOD NOTE:

Although a source is approved here on Websleuths, you personally have the right to decide how much credibility you give to these sources. The fact that a source is or is not approved and the reasons why, however, are not up for debate.

Also, if you have a post removed for a particular reason, do not attempt to post the same information and expect it not to be removed also.

Thanks,
Mad

 

[mrjitty]

I feel the identity of the victims was not important but rather the location.

What he wanted to do took a lot of time, and needed to be done somewhere where he felt he would not be disturbed, hence crossing the river.

IMO he may have stalked this location a number of times until the right victims / opportunity came along.

he was forensically careful which is also interesting.

I wonder if they were made to cross the river with their clothes off

 

[mrjitty]

If I was on the jury, I'd want the water measurement for all of the creek. I live on a river, in one place it is 15 feet deep but 50 feet upstream it's not even ankle deep.

We also don't know if he had the girls undress before crossing the river. That would also explain clean/dry clothes if they carried them across.

I'm no longer clear on whose clothes Abby was wearing, the description matches her own clothes, but the document says they were Libbys.

Right - i certainly don't trust quite a few of the contentions in the document.

We know he didn't leave at 1.30 pm for example

 

[Salah11]

If I was on the jury, I'd want the water measurement for all of the creek. I live on a river, in one place it is 15 feet deep but 50 feet upstream it's not even ankle deep.

We also don't know if he had the girls undress before crossing the river. That would also explain clean/dry clothes if they carried them across.

I'm no longer clear on whose clothes Abby was wearing, the description matches her own clothes, but the document says they were Libbys.

Getting them to undress before crossing the creek would make sense as it’s another way to control them better.

I still believe whoever is guilty wasn’t expecting Abby that day. It’s the only way to make sense of why Libby was targeted and the rage it seems was aimed at her.

Was that because she had mucked up a plan by bringing along Abby that day?!

I don’t have the answers but IMO Libby was the target.

ETA - not forgetting Libby has a uncanny resemblance to RA’s daughter IMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Maybe RA is a Odinist wannabe.
The defense’s contention that RA couldn’t have done all that was done by himself is not necessarily true in my opinion. Remember, the defense is describing the crime scene to us for their benefit. We are not reading an official document of how things were.
There are some things they present as facts in that scenario that are not.
They claim RA and the girls had to trudge through 3.5 feet o water to cross the creek. But the most likely place they crossed was considerably less, most likely below their knees. Video of searchers struggling through Deer Creek is not indicative of the depth where they crossed. We had a lot of discussion here about this and some folks even checked water levels at the time. Videos have been taken at the actual crossing spot on various days showing it is much shallower there.
So the creek did not slow things down nor did it drench their clothes in the way the defense describes.
Libby was not wearing jeans, Abby was. That means the defense’s idea that the killer had to struggle to redress Abby in wet clothes this taking a bunch of time is false. The clothes were probably only wet below the knees and Abby was wearing her own clothes. Their description of this tedious process includes saying Abby had on two bras. First, we don’t know for sure, two, how do we know she wasn’t wearing two bras because it was just a quirky goofy thing young teens do. My opinion is Abby wearing her own clothes so the time consuming task the defense describes did not happen.
These scenarios are pure speculation on their part and added only to make it seem there had to be more than one killer. Without the made-up scenario I think RA absolutely had time to kill the girls and stage things.

 

[photographer4]

I've suspected for awhile that more happened on the south side of the creek, especially if we believe JH that none of the reenactments are accurate. The reenactments all involve BG and the girls walking down the hill and immediately across the creek, whether by leading or running.

Imo, the idea of their clothes being removed on the south side, then carried across, makes sense. Maybe to control them better, or because of other reasons the crime had to be moved? Idk.

If their clothes were removed on the south side, that might explain why LG's shoe was found near the creek at that end of the bridge.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Maybe RA is a Odinist wannabe.
The defense’s contention that RA couldn’t have done all that was done by himself is not necessarily true in my opinion. Remember, the defense is describing the crime scene to us for their benefit. We are not reading an official document of how things were.
There are some things they present as facts in that scenario that are not.
They claim RA and the girls had to trudge through 3.5 feet o water to cross the creek. But the most likely place they crossed was considerably less, most likely below their knees. Video of searchers struggling through Deer Creek is not indicative of the depth where they crossed. We had a lot of discussion here about this and some folks even checked water levels at the time. Videos have been taken at the actual crossing spot on various days showing it is much shallower there.
So the creek did not slow things down nor did it drench their clothes in the way the defense describes.
Libby was not wearing jeans, Abby was. That means the defense’s idea that the killer had to struggle to redress Abby in wet clothes this taking a bunch of time is false. The clothes were probably only wet below the knees and Abby was wearing her own clothes. Their description of this tedious process includes saying Abby had on two bras. First, we don’t know for sure, two, how do we know she wasn’t wearing two bras because it was just a quirky goofy thing young teens do. My opinion is Abby wearing her own clothes so the time consuming task the defense describes did not happen.
These scenarios are pure speculation on their part and added only to make it seem there had to be more than one killer. Without the made-up scenario I think RA absolutely had time to kill the girls and stage things.

I’ve considered that possibility, too. Abby may not have ever taken off her clothes. She may have simply been killed and if her jeans were wet at any time they simply dried in the 22 hours she was laying out there before discovery.

 

[mrjitty]

Maybe RA is a Odinist wannabe.
The defense’s contention that RA couldn’t have done all that was done by himself is not necessarily true in my opinion. Remember, the defense is describing the crime scene to us for their benefit. We are not reading an official document of how things were.
There are some things they present as facts in that scenario that are not.
They claim RA and the girls had to trudge through 3.5 feet o water to cross the creek. But the most likely place they crossed was considerably less, most likely below their knees. Video of searchers struggling through Deer Creek is not indicative of the depth where they crossed. We had a lot of discussion here about this and some folks even checked water levels at the time. Videos have been taken at the actual crossing spot on various days showing it is much shallower there.
So the creek did not slow things down nor did it drench their clothes in the way the defense describes.
Libby was not wearing jeans, Abby was. That means the defense’s idea that the killer had to struggle to redress Abby in wet clothes this taking a bunch of time is false. The clothes were probably only wet below the knees and Abby was wearing her own clothes. Their description of this tedious process includes saying Abby had on two bras. First, we don’t know for sure, two, how do we know she wasn’t wearing two bras because it was just a quirky goofy thing young teens do. My opinion is Abby wearing her own clothes so the time consuming task the defense describes did not happen.
These scenarios are pure speculation on their part and added only to make it seem there had to be more than one killer. Without the made-up scenario I think RA absolutely had time to kill the girls and stage things.

Agreed - the killer had more than enough time. What is described could have been done in 15-20 mins, maybe a lot less.

The idea they were hung upside down is simply silly - there'd be lots of blood in their hair if so

They don't validate the claim that Abby must have had her clothes off at some stage - i wonder what it is based on. But in any event, she may well have redressed herself.

 

[Salah11]

I’ve considered that possibility, too. Abby may not have ever taken off her clothes. She may have simply been killed and if her jeans were wet at any time they simply dried in the 22 hours she was laying out there before discovery.

If the jeans had got soaked from the water you would think that there would be stuff on the jeans from the water and would of dried the jeans out differently?

 

[photographer4]

If there was no sexual assault then why strip the girls?

It’s all very strange and I am struggling to see what RA got out of it unless there is a lot to this than we know?


Also this proves to me without a shadow of doubt that KK wasn’t involved as he was pervert who liked young girls so it doesn’t seem this crime had a sexual element if these documents are right.

IMO

Just because no indication of sexual assault doesn't mean it wasn't sexually motivated. The motivation could have been in posing the nude body, seeing the girls nude, undressing them, asserting power over them, redressing a victim.

 

[schooling]

The 'reasonable' doubt they are attempting to cast upon the walls with this particular pasta dish is debunked by RAs very own statements and timelines given to police.

The prosecution has his statements, they have the bullet, they have the probable cause.

The defence here is attempting to rewrite RAs own words and actions after the fact with this meal.

Any reasonable juror will understand that.

I think we were whipped up into a grand conspiracy frenzy (and the defense seems perfectly fine trying to further encourage us to find one) and RA's arrest landed with a thud.

Occam's Razor. Sometimes 'it just is what it is'. (insert another cliche or principle here)

There's nothing grand about this. There is no conspiracy. There is no mysterious 2nd or 3rd person. RA acted alone, on serious perversions and two innocent kids lost their lives because of it.

Prosecutors have the goods.

 

[photographer4]

Agreed - I wonder if that witness gave an updated description?

It seems incredible that the 'bloody' element and change of jacket colour would be fabricated by LE in the affidavit

I wonder why all the cult stuff is even included in this motion other than to publicise it.

One has to wonder here how we, the readers might be being manipulated by either side of the court? The police & prosecution gives as little information as possible and has done so throughout the investigation. The defence is hurling accusations of outright lies, and throwing allegations in the direction of the Odinists... Is one attempting to draw out the other side somehow in their back and forth court filings?

 

[r3d-ros3]

Seriously, what are the odds that we have two murder victims, one being catfished by an experienced predator, the other dating the son of an Odinist, and then some opportunistic CVS worker killed them randomly and left them in such a weird way that an FBI agent thought he'd memorialize the scene with photos? WTF?

You took the words right out of my brain / mouth.