IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

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zh0r4 said:
Re: the interviews, I interpret that as saying the defense is skeptical about anything allegedly said in those interviews without seeing the videotaped interviews first hand. No idea about the difference between a document and memorandum, is there a difference?
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"Document" isn't a legal term per se. It is used for anything one puts on paper (or files electronically nowadays).

The full name of a "memo" is a Memorandum of Points and Authorities (or "Memo of Ps & As" for short). In my experience (25 years working legal support) a Memo of Ps & As is filed in support of a Complaint or Motion or Reply or other type of document asking the court to do (or not to do) something.

Such a Memo of Ps & As will contain the arguments that side is making in support of their request, the facts on which the arguments are based, and the relevant statutes and case precedents.
 
Nova said:
"Document" isn't a legal term per se. It is used for anything one puts on paper (or files electronically nowadays).

The full name of a "memo" is a Memorandum of Points and Authorities (or "Memo of Ps & As" for short). In my experience (25 years working legal support) a Memo of Ps & As is filed in support of a Complaint or Motion or Reply or other type of document asking the court to do (or not to do) something.

Such a Memo of Ps & As will contain the arguments that side is making in support of their request, the facts on which the arguments are based, and the relevant statutes and case precedents.
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In this case, getting RA out of Westville?
 
Miya said:
Ok, looking at it again, this is not about felony murder, it's about murder as it says in the title:

"2022 Indiana Code
Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure
Article 42. Offenses Against the Person
Chapter 1. Homicide
35-42-1-1. Murder"
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At this point, I don't know how "felony murder" came up in the first place.

But under the Indiana statute, "intentional murder" and "felony murder" are both covered under the umbrella charge, "Murder". (So are drug-related murders and, as of last year, abortions.)
 
This is moving so fast, it's been difficult to keep up. Apologies if this has already been posted ad nauseum:

Maybe/possibly/probably some of the witnesses, people on the trails that day, searchers, law enforcement, and judges are Odinists too? Recusals, misinformation, conflicting statements or sketches, etc. I am finding it difficult to keep it all straight, and I've been following since day 1. Is Odinism more common in the Midwest? I am in the Midwest, and this is the first time I've heard of it.

Thinking of the families every day....
 
TL4S said:
In this case, getting RA out of Westville?
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I didn't see the original pleading. What was the Defense's Memo of Ps & As attached to?

Sounds like the Defense is making more than one claim--or else they've wrapped up everything in their grand, conspiracy theory. Their Memorandum may cover multiple claims.
 
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I haven't read all 160+ threads related to this case, rather dipping in and out over time.

Always, though, I have had the distinct impression that the LE investigation has been and is a hot mess.

While I think RA is guilty of something, there is a lot of uncertainty (imo) of how this investigation has been handled throughout.

MOO.
 
Ravenmoon said:
Are we 100 percent certain that there were no footprints? I have not heard that there were none.

Reasonable to me:

Abducting 2 girls at gunpoint could be done by anyone.

Yellow rope left at the scene at least implies how one girl was incapacitated.

2 Nude girls, one tied up while witnessing what happens to her friend would be petrified and still, bound.

The murders could easily be carried out with one adult male.

Please remember, the Richard Allen that the defense portrays no longer has access to alcohol, good meals or satisfying sleep. He looks like someone who is paying the price for what he has done after getting away with it for almost,6 years.

His wife had videos of a very physically healthy Richard Allen. He was more than capable of the murders IMO.

This defense team has a repeating pattern of villainizing the system and the people that run it. The claims they made about RA are very similar to ones made about Ron Logan.

They are doing what they do best and what they are hired to do.

AJMOView attachment 449095
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Interesting, I hadn’t noticed the cross-overs connected to this case all in the same law firm.

Ackey represented RL (yes it resembled a proforma for blaming a prison for mistreatment)
Achey represented KAK and was fired by KAK just after he plead guilty but prior to his sentencing.
Rozzi, a partner is representing RA.

Well that surely addresses the issue of why the RA’s defence isn’t pointing fingers at KAK or RL.

ETA - Google suggests Ackey has since left this partnership and is now practising on his own.
 
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TL4S said:
GH talked to a guy in 2021, who said back then that LE had told him about a car (which LE didn't even know the color of) parked oddly in the CPS lot. Imo, this guy is credible because he knew this information long before it was released to the public. Anyway, he said he saw an older model car parked along the road just south of the CPS lot from morning until 2:07pm. Of note, some think he had his days mixed up... but he says he had work records showing exactly when he was there.

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In the PCA, the description of the vehicle BB saw at the CPS lot was omitted, only a description of how it was parked. I've been thinking it was omitted due to not matching the other CPS vehicle descriptions, but I honestly can't really determine that BB didn't see both a '65 Comet (maybe the one on the side of the road, referenced in GH's video) AND another car parked oddly at the CPS lot. So maybe that's one thing the D is twisting? But then, I still don't know why her vehicle description wasn't in the PCA if it matched though...

ETA: Sorry for replying to myself...
 
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cluckcluckcluckcluck said:
This is moving so fast, it's been difficult to keep up. Apologies if this has already been posted ad nauseum:

Maybe/possibly/probably some of the witnesses, people on the trails that day, searchers, law enforcement, and judges are Odinists too? Recusals, misinformation, conflicting statements or sketches, etc. I am finding it difficult to keep it all straight, and I've been following since day 1. Is Odinism more common in the Midwest? I am in the Midwest, and this is the first time I've heard of it.

Thinking of the families every day....
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Tricia had an expert on Heathens appear as a guest last week for Websleuths on YouTube.

Odinism seems to be a Pagan religion falling under Nordic beliefs. The biggest group of Odinists are formed within the prison system.

There are other people that appreciate and use Nordic connections to relate to the warrior aspect of the culture. They often use Valhalla and other aspects of this group because they feel that it represents them as a unit. Law enforcement and military are included.

Please know that this is NOT to be confused with Odinism.


JMO
 
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StarryStarryNight said:
Well, guess what, defense attorneys lie and inflate and misrepresent all the time. At least some do, like RA’s.
And don’t justify it by saying “it’s their job” because there are plenty of defense attorneys that don’t play this game. It is dishonest and it is insulting to the victims and frankly to the public too. But they made this choice…to be dishonest. Even if you know your client is guilty, you can still defend him without stooping this low.
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I agree, plus normally they wait until the actual trial to begin their defense theatrics.

To me, this looks like amateur hour, because most defense attorneys don't have spare time to waste on 136 page dead end motions, that won't succeed in court (altho the media love it). They usually have more important, more effective things to do.

JMO
 
MistyWaters said:
The Memorandum supports the Motion for Frank’s Hearing, suggesting the SW was unlawful.

www.scribd.com

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion.pdf
www.scribd.com www.scribd.com
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Thank you! That answers my question: the Memo of Ps & As is filed in support of the Defendant's request for a Franks hearing. As most here know by now, a Franks hearing is an attempt to challenge whatever info was supplied to get a search warrant.

I'm making no prediction in the Delphi case, but such challenges aren't successful nearly as often as they seem from watching movies and TV shows. And even if evidence is thrown out because of a faulty search warrant, there are ways to do an end run around the loss, such as arguing "inevitable discovery".
 
Cedars said:
I agree, plus normally they wait until the actual trial to begin their defense theatrics.

To me, this looks like amateur hour, because most defense attorneys don't have spare time to waste on 136 page dead end motions, that won't succeed in court (altho the media love it). They usually have more important, more effective things to do.

JMO
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Maybe. I'm sure you know this case better than I do.

But the West Memphis 3 were convicted (and Damian Echols was sent to death row) on just such a compilation of scare tactics and nonsense. Is Indiana any more enlightened than Arkansas? My family in Indy say no.

I would never underestimate the willingness of folks in the Bible Belt to believe that "pagans" are random, spree killers.
 
Nova said:
Thank you! That answers my question: the Memo of Ps & As is filed in support of the Defendant's request for a Franks hearing. As most here know by now, a Franks hearing is an attempt to challenge whatever info was supplied to get a search warrant.

I'm making no prediction in the Delphi case, but such challenges aren't successful nearly as often as they seem from watching movies and TV shows. And even if evidence is thrown out because of a faulty search warrant, there are ways to do an end run around the loss, such as arguing "inevitable discovery".
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The Amended Motion to Suppress filed by the defence dated Sept 13th which contained typical legal rational gave absolutely no hint of the Memorandum that was to follow soon thereafter.

 
StarryStarryNight said:
If RA did have a phone that day at the trails it would have important information no doubt.
My concern with cell phone data has always been, because there was almost six years before an arrest was made, that either RA got rid of the phone and/or that the phone companies didn’t have the information anymore.
But, as you point out, they seized numerous cell phones with the search warrant.
Maybe that’s a big reason the defense wants to kill the search warrant.
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From the memo:

Jerry Holeman has testified to the following: There is no DNA linking Richard Allen to
the crime scene.187 No data extracted from Richard Allen’s phone connects him to the murders.188
No data extracted from Libby’s phone connected Richard the murders.189 There is no evidence that
Richard Allen is or was connected to any other suspects in the case.190 There is no evidence found
on social media that connects Richard Allen to the murders.191 There is no evidence extracted from
Richard Allen’s computers that connects him to the murders.192 There is no fingerprint evidence
that connects Richard Allen to the murders.193
 
Miya said:
I'm a couple of pages behind, don't know if somebody already replied.

I checked again and you are right, it says "one of the mothers". I think I just heard a lot of people say that it must have been Abby's mother because we know about Libby's mother, but I think I mixed things up in my head, because everybody sees Libby's grandmother as her mother, I don't think we know much about Libby's mother. Or Abby's, and we also shouldn't.

Makes me wonder though why it doesn't say which mother in the memo. Maybe they wanted to be vague with this personal information but at the same time had no problem with naming names, including the guy's name that reached out to LE several times about BH ...
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libbys mom lives in another state if i am not wrong..she was always vocal against LE ..thats all
 
Nova said:
At this point, I don't know how "felony murder" came up in the first place.

But under the Indiana statute, "intentional murder" and "felony murder" are both covered under the umbrella charge, "Murder". (So are drug-related murders and, as of last year, abortions.)
Click to expand...
IMO, the charge was listed as #2: murder in the course of another crime, simply because that describes the evidence about the crime. LE have the audio recording that proves the kidnapping, and the scene of crime evidence will be introduced to further prove kidnapping. This was no voluntarily picnic in the park that went awry.

IMO, it was not listed as #1, intentional murder, because there is inadequate evidence to prove that RA targetted those two, or set out that morning to kill anyone. He may have, but he left nothing around as evidence to prove it.

Nor, obviously, was he working with them to deal drugs.

The charges fit the alleged crime. Not sure what the fuss is about.

JMO
 
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