IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[MistyWaters]

Summary: They received the statement this morning. Mr. Click (former Rushville Assistant Police Chief, now retired) is being careful of what he is saying because he doesn't want to violate the gag order and plans to speak to his attorney to find out the limits.

Exact quote from Mr. Click as read by the Murder Sheet hosts:

"There are two things that I would like to clear up immediately, though. Detective Ferency and Detective Murphy were not Rushville cops. Detective F was a detective from the Terre Haute police department that was assigned to the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force. Detective Murphy was an Indiana State police detective that was also assigned to the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force. So, the FBI was associated with the investigation until at least July 2021. Secondly, no one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual in a ritual sacrifice. That is the defence twisting facts for sensationalism. You can quote me on those two items."

<Statement contained in quote BBM>

Bumping this forward Clink’s statement read on the MS podcast yesterday in case anyone missed it —- the cracks in the defence memorandum are beginning to appear as Click was the centre piece of the Odinist theory, according to the defence.

If the defence is twisting facts for sensationalism (as I think we already suspected) how can anything they’ve claimed be considered as truthful???

Reference to Click in the document -
Click’s recent statement - “no one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual in a ritual sacrifice.”

Delphi murder victims were killed by members of 'pagan cult,' defense attorneys say

Attorneys for accused Delphi murderer Richard Allen are claiming prosecutors hid evidence that the victims were actually killed by members of a pagan white nationalist cult.

lawandcrime.com

The filing also claims that prosecutors in May 2023 received a letter from a former assistant police chief, Todd Click, who worked on the case before his retirement, notifying them about his concerns over the lack of evidence against Allen in comparison to the evidence he and other investigators amassed when looking into “Odinist” followers in the area.

“The information that [Click and the other investigators] had gathered during their investigation connected men who practiced Odinism in or near Delphi with another group of men who lived in Rushville and then connected both groups of men to the murders,” the memo states. “Click was concerned that for some reason the leadership of the investigative team had failed to share with [prosecutors] the evidence gathered by [Click and the other investigators]. Click’s concerns led him to seek out a lawyer to assist him in the drafting of a letter.”

Additionally, according to the filing, Click included in his letter to prosecutors “the Behavioral Analysis Unit (BAU) of the FBI determined that the individual(s) responsible for the homicides were involved in Nordic beliefs.”

“This was news to the Defense as no member of [law enforcement] in charge of the investigation revealed this information to the Defense during recent depositions,” the filing states. Among those who did not reveal the aforementioned information to the defense included at least one investigator who allegedly abandoned the theory without sufficient investigation. That investigator then testified during a deposition “that he didn’t remember if the FBI’s BAU unit determined one way or the other whether those with Nordic beliefs had been involved in the murders,” per the filing.

 

[mrjitty]

Here is why I believe the prosecution will establish RA's car was parked at CPS when seen by BB at 2.15pm

When considering circumstantial evidence a juror must ask what facts have been established, before considering what necessary, natural, obvious inference to draw from all the facts. The juror may not speculate away each piece of evidence in isolation. IMO the following will be proven

1. A contemporaneous note states rick arrived at 1,30pm
2. A camera image of a car like Rick's car corroborates this time
3. Three juvenile witnesses say they saw a man, and the time is just after 1.27pm according to digital evidence. RA also confirms he saw the 3 witnesses - so this meeting is locked in
4. BB arrives on the trail after RA. He does not meet her when she returning and he is going out, therefore he must have been ahead of her on the trail.
5. RA also does not meet BB when he is returning and she is going out
6. Therefore RA must commence his return after BB is already heading back to her car
7. There is a contemporaneous note that RA was on the trails between 1.30 and 3.30pm

Therefore the problem for innocent Rick is that BB gets to her car and drives past CPS before RA can get there

Therefore the only obvious inference based on all the facts is that it was his car, because he told us he parked there, and he was still on the trails at 2.15

The same logic applies as to why it must have been him she saw on the Bridge. There is nowhere else he can be.

The only way I can construct an innocent version is if BB does see RA on the bridge, then he returns after her (so does not see her) and the victims left the trail for a short time, enabling him to get back down the trail to his car. But even still, BB would have seen RA's car at CPS in any timeline IMO
.

 

[MistyWaters]

Just doing some digging to answer a question I’m asking myself.…
Why the involvement in this investigation of the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force?

It would appear to me that the human sacrifice/ritual angle was thoroughly investigated by LE, probably initiated by EF’s statements to his sister as I notice criminal acts stemming from organized groups such as cults and white supremacists would be considered ”domestic terrorism”. So if Odinism/white supremacy involvement was believed to have occurred in the deaths of Libby and Abby, I think charges would’ve been filed by the US Federal Govt, not the State.

Federal involvement would seem to be a glaring oversight on the part of whoever wrote up the defence piece, instead making it appear as if it was all a bungled investigation against poor Rick by LE and a prosecutor at the local level. JMO

ETA - After the FBI came to the conclusion the deaths of Libby and Abby did not involve ritual sacrifice, maybe that’s when the FBI stepped aside?

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/terrorism

Terrorism Definitions​

Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.

 

[TL4S]

Here is why I believe the prosecution will establish RA's car was parked at CPS when seen by BB at 2.15pm

When considering circumstantial evidence a juror must ask what facts have been established, before considering what necessary, natural, obvious inference to draw from all the facts. The juror may not speculate away each piece of evidence in isolation. IMO the following will be proven

1. A contemporaneous note states rick arrived at 1,30pm
2. A camera image of Rick's car corroborates this time
3. Three juvenile witnesses say they say a man, and the time is just after 1.27pm according to digital evidence. RA also confirms he saw the 3 witnesses - so this meeting is locked in
4. BB arrives on the trail after RA. He does not meet her when she returning and he is going out, therefore he must have been ahead of her on the trail.
5. RA also does not meet BB when he is returning and she is going out
6. Therefore RA must commence his return after BB is already heading back to her car
7. There is a contemporaneous note that RA was on the trails between 1.30 and 3.30pm

Therefore the problem for innocent Rick is that BB gets to her car and drives past CPS before RA can get there

Therefore the only obvious inference based on all the facts is that it was his car, because he told us he parked there, and he was still on the trails at 2.15

The same logic applies as to why it must have been him she saw on the Bridge. There is nowhere else he can be.

The only way I can construct an innocent version is if BB does see RA on the bridge, then he returns after her (so does not see her) and the victims left the trail for a short time, enabling him to get back down the trail to his car. But even still, BB would have seen RA's car at CPS in any timeline IMO
.

A key piece of evidence that we have not seen here is RA's cell phone data. He said he was using his phone while on the trails, so if he was, there should be some kind of cell data during the timeframe he was there. If that data is from between noon and 1:30pm, and possibly more from his drive home and after, then that will support what he told LE in Oct. 2022.

However, if his phone was in the trail area until 4pm, his goose might be cooked. I haven't seen the D trying to get cell phone data suppressed, but I don't know if the SW getting thrown out would affect phone records. I would think just RA's admission to being on the trails and bridge that afternoon would be sufficient means to obtain his cell records, to show when he was there? Might they have done the same to support the HH vehicle footage for the witnesses? I'm not familiar with the laws regarding all of this.

 

[Megnut]

Here is why I believe the prosecution will establish RA's car was parked at CPS when seen by BB at 2.15pm

When considering circumstantial evidence a juror must ask what facts have been established, before considering what necessary, natural, obvious inference to draw from all the facts. The juror may not speculate away each piece of evidence in isolation. IMO the following will be proven

1. A contemporaneous note states rick arrived at 1,30pm
2. A camera image of Rick's car corroborates this time
3. Three juvenile witnesses say they say a man, and the time is just after 1.27pm according to digital evidence. RA also confirms he saw the 3 witnesses - so this meeting is locked in
4. BB arrives on the trail after RA. He does not meet her when she returning and he is going out, therefore he must have been ahead of her on the trail.
5. RA also does not meet BB when he is returning and she is going out
6. Therefore RA must commence his return after BB is already heading back to her car
7. There is a contemporaneous note that RA was on the trails between 1.30 and 3.30pm

Therefore the problem for innocent Rick is that BB gets to her car and drives past CPS before RA can get there

Therefore the only obvious inference based on all the facts is that it was his car, because he told us he parked there, and he was still on the trails at 2.15

The same logic applies as to why it must have been him she saw on the Bridge. There is nowhere else he can be.

The only way I can construct an innocent version is if BB does see RA on the bridge, then he returns after her (so does not see her) and the victims left the trail for a short time, enabling him to get back down the trail to his car. But even still, BB would have seen RA's car at CPS in any timeline IMO
.

(@mrjitty, I believe there is cctv of the vehicle associated with RA captured approaching the park but none of it leaving, right?

Was there time between BB seeing him on the bridge for him to relocate his vehicle? I doubt it but could he have?

I wonder about the vintage automobile. If she did in fact see one in and around that day, did LE ever track one down? Vet it and move on? If she was a regular walker and I believe she was, she could've made an honest mistake, conflating her days. Day 1, vintage car, Day 2, car backed in.

I am so ready to see the Prosecution's case laid end to end.

Jmo)

 

[mrjitty]

(@mrjitty, I believe there is cctv of the vehicle associated with RA captured approaching the park but none of it leaving, right?

Was there time between BB seeing him on the bridge for him to relocate his vehicle? I doubt it but could he have?

I wonder about the vintage automobile. If sge did in fact see one in and around that day, did LE ever track one down? Vet it and move on? If she was a regular walker and I believe she was, she could've made an honest mistake, conflating her days. Day 1, vintage car, Day 2, car backed in.

I am so ready to see the Prosecution's case laid end to end.

Jmo)

He can’t have moved it because he left the bridge after her. So she gets to his car before he can.

 

[MistyWaters]

A key piece of evidence that we have not seen here is RA's cell phone data. He said he was using his phone while on the trails, so if he was, there should be some kind of cell data during the timeframe he was there. If that data is from between noon and 1:30pm, and possibly more from his drive home and after, then that will support what he told LE in Oct. 2022.

However, if his phone was in the trail area until 4pm, his goose might be cooked. I haven't seen the D trying to get cell phone data suppressed, but I don't know if the SW getting thrown out would affect phone records. I would think just RA's admission to being on the trails and bridge that afternoon would be sufficient means to obtain his cell records, to show when he was there? Might they have done the same to support the HH vehicle footage for the witnesses? I'm not familiar with the laws regarding all of this.

I think it’s been speculated that because the population around Delphi is so low there’s not enough cell towers around to triangulate a precise location of any one cellphone, only a general location.

But LE often has other means at their disposal to narrow down time frames, for example what time a home computer was used, a phone call was made, or when a debit/credit charge was transacted can either support or negate a timeline. We also have no reason to believe only one single CCTV will come into play. The only concern might be record retention due to the time lag of the focus on RA.

JMO, I think the odds of the SW getting thrown out are extremely low.

 

[Megnut]

I f RA was on a mission that day, I wonder if the Defense is staying away from that because MOO he might've left his phone at home. On purpose.

Yes, he said he was using a phone to track stocks (or clever wording for what I believe he was really doing -- tracking commodities, one 13, one 14), but he never said it was his only phone. Bet his actual phone doesn't show any stockwatching that afternoon. In fact, I won't be at all surprised to learn three things: one, RA's phone never went to the bridge that day, there was no activity on his phone from about noon to 5, and LE had at least one but maybe two unidentifiable numbers, a result of the tower dump. I think RA had a secret phone and so did one of the girls.

Jmo

 

[Megnut]

He can’t have moved it because he left the bridge after her. So she gets to his car before he can.

Yes, I understand that. He boxed himself in badly. I'm just trying to wiggle out whether he could've reparked -- he could've had someone else bring the car around, so to speak. More logical, however, that the witness' recall wasn't perfect.

Jmo

 

[Arkay]

A key piece of evidence that we have not seen here is RA's cell phone data

True. There is still a lot of info we don’t know.

I also try to keep in mind that in Libby’s video, we have always only seen the DTH portion, but LE has the entire 43 seconds. The part that LE long ago said was the stuff of nightmares.

Who but LE knows what is depicted there and what additional information they’ve garnered from that?

Personally I hope to never see it released, just as I wish I didn’t now know the crime scene details we’ve learned from the Defense memorandum.

Also, I agree with @mrjitty that if RA were INNOCENTLY on the bridge at the same time as the murders, he wouldn’t have ever stopped talking about it. As in “I was right there! I could have been killed! I cant believe I was there when it happened!”

He possibly would have spent these years exclaiming this to everybody he knew.

JMO and speculation.

 

[Ravenmoon]

The defenders are talking about the dexterity necessary to kill in such a short time (and, should we add, leave no DNA?). RA can be playing pool, anyone can play pool, big deal. We don't know how well he played. What we heard was that RA was drunk on MHB and I doubt that he did have the physical prowess to do it alone.

Furthermore. There were a lot of potential pois, basically, everyone living on that drive plus every young curly white male in the neighborhood. About one of them, 6'2" or so, I immediately felt, no, just look at his legs, he has colossal legs and the BG has rather skinny legs. RA had pretty hefty legs two years ago, too. And, he is beyond their lowest limit, sorry.

No. He wasn't just playing pool.
He was literally jumping up and down.
Bouncing.

 

[TL4S]

No. He wasn't just playing pool.
He was literally jumping up and down.
Bouncing.

Ugh...that video. The movement was wild and unnatural, IMO.

 

[FromGermany1]

Accused double murderer and CVS pharmacy technician Richard Allen, a 50-year-old father of two charged with killing Delphi, Indiana teens Libby German and Abby Williams on a hiking trail in 2017, was a regular customer at Matlock’s tavern, JC’s Bar.

“He would come in and we would always talk about the girls and everything,” Matlock, 75, told The Daily Beast on Monday. “We would carry on conversations about it, he would say, you know, it’s such a tragedy, and we’d say we felt sorry for the families and all that, but we tried not to talk about it too much because we all knew the families, and were friends with the families.”

Stunned Bar Owner Says Delphi Suspect Sat Inches Away From ‘Wanted’ Sketch

“He would come in and we would always talk about the girls and everything,” Bob Matlock told The Daily Beast on Monday.

www.thedailybeast.com

-.-.-.-
Would like to know, if RA was 5,5 years holding back, that he himself had been on the bridge in 2017?

 

[Megnut]

True. There is still a lot of info we don’t know.

I also try to keep in mind that in Libby’s video, we have always only seen the DTH portion, but LE has the entire 43 seconds. The part that LE long ago said was the stuff of nightmares.

Who but LE knows what is depicted there and what additional information they’ve garnered from that?

Personally I hope to never see it released, just as I wish I didn’t now know the crime scene details we’ve learned from the Defense memorandum.

Also, I agree with @mrjitty that if RA were INNOCENTLY on the bridge at the same time as the murders, he wouldn’t have ever stopped talking about it. As in “I was right there! I could have been killed! I cant believe I was there when it happened!”

He possibly would have spent these years exclaiming this to everybody he knew.

JMO and speculation.

Exactly!

And you know what else? He's a father.

Where was his sense of guilt and powerlessness -- I was right there, if only I could've saved them.

Yeah, he kept his presence there as much of a secret as he could --

Very telling.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I f RA was on a mission that day, I wonder if the Defense is staying away from that because MOO he might've left his phone at home. On purpose.

Yes, he said he was using a phone to track stocks (or clever wording for what I believe he was really doing -- tracking commodities, one 13, one 14), but he never said it was his only phone. Bet his actual phone doesn't show any stockwatching that afternoon. In fact, I won't be at all surprised to learn three things: one, RA's phone never went to the bridge that day, there was no activity on his phone from about noon to 5, and LE had at least one but maybe two unidentifiable numbers, a result of the tower dump. I think RA had a secret phone and so did one of the girls.

Jmo

Yes, they found other phones during the SW in October.

 

[TL4S]

I wonder if LE talked to any other witnesses regarding vehicles at the CPS lot. Did anyone else see an older model, like the '65 Comet, parked there?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder if LE talked to any other witnesses regarding vehicles at the CPS lot. Did anyone else see an older model, like the '65 Comet, parked there?

I have never read or seen any mention of a '65 Comet until now myself, but that's not saying it wasn't reported somewhere.

 

[TL4S]

I have never read or seen any mention of a '65 Comet until now myself, but that's not saying it wasn't reported somewhere.

GH talked to a guy in 2021, who said back then that LE had told him about a car (which LE didn't even know the color of) parked oddly in the CPS lot. Imo, this guy is credible because he knew this information long before it was released to the public. Anyway, he said he saw an older model car parked along the road just south of the CPS lot from morning until 2:07pm. Of note, some think he had his days mixed up... but he says he had work records showing exactly when he was there.

 

[girlhasnoname]

GH talked to a guy in 2021, who said back then that LE had told him about a car parked oddly in the CPS lot. Imo, this guy is credible because he knew this information long before it was released to the public. Anyway, he said he saw an older model car parked along the road just south of the CPS lot from morning until 2:07pm. Of note, some think he had his days mixed up...

Thanks for that TL. He said he saw the older model car parked off the road halfway between the Bldg and the road at 8:45 am that morning and it was still there at 2:15 pm when he came back by.

Interesting.

 

[TL4S]

Thanks for that TL. He said he saw the older model car parked off the road halfway between the Bldg and the road at 8:45 am that morning and it was still there at 2:15 pm when he came back by.

Interesting.

Which is why I've been a broken record about NMcL maybe wanting the PCA sealed because of the vehicle information. Because IF there really was another car parked along the road during the time of the murders, the driver of that car now knew that if witnesses saw the car at CPS during those times, they likely saw the older model car, too. Jmo.