IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[legalmomma]

I have contacted a local Indy channel to see if they can get more specifics on how the pool feed will work. Looks like no live broadcasting of the hearing Thursday.

 

[Bergmann]

Interrupted but I believe that would have been next.

So what time would that have been?

 

[FrostedGlass]

If this hearing is about the leaks, I wonder if the leaker of the pictures will come to court and admit their part. It seems like the best option that I can think of.

 

[FromGermany1]

I think there was an intention to burn.

Interrupted but I believe that would have been next.

JMO

Apropos burning: I now just remember the pic, which was painted by an inmate (Brian so-and-so), showing BG on the bridge and flames shooting up from below between the railway sleepers ....
The flames were suspect, and we didn't know, what the meaning was.

 

[FromGermany1]

I have contacted a local Indy channel to see if they can get more specifics on how the pool feed will work. Looks like no live broadcasting of the hearing Thursday.
View attachment 454132

A press pool, media pool or news pool is an arrangement wherein a group of news gathering organizations combine their resources in the collection of news. A pool feed is then distributed to members of the broadcast pool who are free to edit it or use it as they see necessary. In the case of print reporters, a written pool report is distributed to all members. A pool spray is a brief photo opportunity, for instance at the White House following a meeting.[1]
^^ from Wiki

 

[Megnut]

So what time would that have been?

Time?

Libby's dad? Shouting?

I think he had to abandon the area before he could set fire to it.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

If leak of the crime scene photos isn't a violation of the gag order, it must be an incredibly weak one. We should probably get some feedback from WS attorneys on that. I don't think I've ever followed a case with a gag order where it was ok to release crime scene photos prior to the trial, at least not in modern times. More recent cases (Rhoden Massacre, Murdaugh murders) did not allow photos of the crime scene and victims to be released prior to trial. Certainly not photos of young girls, murdered, one nude,<modsnip: Not supported by any MSM or LE report> and posed post-mortem by the killer.
/[/URL]

The function of a gag order prevents, for example, RAs attorneys from holding a press conference displaying crime scene photos to illustrate their Odinist theory.

The gag order applicable to this case was intended to control pretrial publicity by gagging key parties who are directly involved.

“Judge Frances C. Gull issued a gag order in December, after Allen's lawyers shared a press release defending his name. The order barred those involved in the case, family members and police from releasing information to the public.”

Delphi murder suspect appears in court as judge rules trial will remain in county, gag order continues

Allen was charged with murder in the deaths of Abigail “Abby” Williams, 13, and Liberty “Libby” German, 14, whose bodies were found in the woods near the Delphi Historic Trail.

www.nbcnews.com

Nobody is suggesting the leak is not a serious matter. It is, it seems sneaky and underhanded. However the leak isn’t a serious matter because it violates the gag order. The defence has violated a confidentiality order even if the leak was unintentional on their part. It will be interesting to learn of the sanctions they will face for doing so.

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

The function of a gag order prevents, for example, RAs attorneys from holding a press conference displaying crime scene photos to illustrate their Odinist theory.

The gag order applicable to this case was intended to control pretrial publicity by gagging key parties who are directly involved.

“Judge Frances C. Gull issued a gag order in December, after Allen's lawyers shared a press release defending his name. The order barred those involved in the case, family members and police from releasing information to the public.”

Delphi murder suspect appears in court as judge rules trial will remain in county, gag order continues

Allen was charged with murder in the deaths of Abigail “Abby” Williams, 13, and Liberty “Libby” German, 14, whose bodies were found in the woods near the Delphi Historic Trail.

www.nbcnews.com

Nobody is suggesting the leak is not a serious matter. It is, it seems sneaky and underhanded. However the leak isn’t a serious matter because it violates the gag order. The defence has violated a confidentiality order even if the leak was unintentional on their part. It will be interesting to learn of the sanctions they will face for doing so.

JMO

Just for the record, it was McLeland who started the gag ball rolling.

11/22/2022

Motion Filed Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing Any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication filed. Filed By: State of Indiana File Stamp: 11/22/2022

Here is the judge's decision.

12/02/2022

Order Issued The Court issues an order granting the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing Any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication in whole, pending hearing which the Court has scheduled for January 13, 2023 at 10:00 am in the Carroll Circuit Court. Violations of this Order are punishable as Contempt of Court and subject the violator to a fine and/or incarceration. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 12/02/2022

 

[MistyWaters]

I think there was an intention to burn.

Interrupted but I believe that would have been next.

JMO

That thought had also crossed my mind at times just by looking at photos of the general treed/bushy crime scene area. Torching a crime scene destroys evidence. It also would be a difficult area to immediately access for firefighters and trucks, the description of it as RL‘s “backyard” is completely misleading. The perpetrator might’ve even expected a fire would’ve been attributed as the cause of the girls deaths, deemed accidental. It also fits for me that something disrupted that plan so now I wonder if there were any burn marks on the ground, indicating a fire was attempted but hadn’t spread.

Total speculation by me….

 

[Bergmann]

Time?

Libby's dad? Shouting?

I think he had to abandon the area before he could set fire to it.

Yes, the approx' time when you believe the perp who laid the sticks on the body would have set the fire (but didn't).

 

[Bergmann]

hat thought had also crossed my mind at times just by looking at photos of the general treed/bushy crime scene area. Torching a crime scene destroys evidence. It also would be a difficult area to immediately access for firefighters and trucks, the description of it as RL‘s “backyard” is completely misleading. The perpetrator might’ve even expected a fire would’ve been attributed as the cause of the girls deaths, deemed accidental. It also fits for me that something disrupted that plan so now I wonder if there were any burn marks on the ground, indicating a fire was attempted but hadn’t spread.

LE made quite an impact early on the investigation when they said things about the bodies being moved and staged, and with certain signatures. 6 years later sadly we know a little about what they meant by that.

Purely MOO but usually killers are leaving a crime scene like that to be found that way, so I would tend to discount things that would obscure the effort to do this, so I don't personally believe that the sticks were attempts to conceal the bodies, nor do I think they were fuel for a potential fire. My sense from how the CS has always been described it, is that it was a scene intentionally left that way for effect.

Also a fire might also draw attention - especially at different times of the day and the amount of light left (we don't know times of death so I am not assuming a time).

 

[Emma Peel]

Apropos burning: I now just remember the pic, which was painted by an inmate (Brian so-and-so), showing BG on the bridge and flames shooting up from below between the railway sleepers ....
The flames were suspect, and we didn't know, what the meaning was.

could have been the flora fire rumors on the artist's mind ... just a wild guess.

 

[Boxer]

Dbm

 

[MistyWaters]

Just for the record, it was McLeland who started the gag ball rolling.

11/22/2022

Motion Filed Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing Any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication filed. Filed By: State of Indiana File Stamp: 11/22/2022

Here is the judge's decision.

12/02/2022

Order Issued The Court issues an order granting the State's Motion for Order Prohibiting the Parties, Counsel, Law Enforcement Officials, Court Personnel, Coroner, and Family Members from Disseminating Information or Releasing Any Extra-Judicial Statements by Means of Public Communication in whole, pending hearing which the Court has scheduled for January 13, 2023 at 10:00 am in the Carroll Circuit Court. Violations of this Order are punishable as Contempt of Court and subject the violator to a fine and/or incarceration. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 12/02/2022

Yes the gag order came about because the defence’s press release and this latest leak was also the 2nd. So this latest incident is added proof the defence to not abiding by the rules.

Below are details of the confidenality agreement posted earlier, quoted from MS. I have strong doubts that Baldwin asked “M” to sign a confidenality agreement given their informal relationship. Regardless he’s proven himself to be untrustworthy as it’s evident the leak was deliberate.

“The defense agreed to insure that they only shared discovery with trustworthy associates, either expert witnesses or support staff who signed paperwork affirming they wouldn't leak anything on the penalty of contempt of court charges. Any those were supposed also to be approved with the court. There was supposed to be a process for this.”

 

[Tealgrove]

Wasn't there a rumor about some DNA destroying liquid being at the scene?
Like bleach, maybe it was lighter fluid.

Yes there was. I think it was bleach. There have been so many rumours that it’s hard to keep the truth from the fiction in check.

 

[Boxer]

Odinists bleach crime scenes?

 

[tlcya]

The Oct. 19 status hearing is set for 2 p.m. at the Allen County Courthouse. Despite Allen’s accused crimes being committed in Carroll County, the hearing will be held in Allen County due to Allen County Judge Fran Gull being assigned to the heavily publicized case.
[snip]
Several topics could be on the docket for the Thursday hearing, including a crucial leak of evidence that Allen’s defense attorneys took responsibility for. Indiana State Police launched an investigation into the leak last week, preceding Gull’s decision to set the Oct. 19 hearing status “to discuss the upcoming hearing on October 31, 2023, and other matters which have recently arisen.”
Cameras permitted for first time in Richard Allen hearing

Judge Gull made the following statement in the order:

"The Court has determined that allowing recording of the October 19, 2023, hearing is permitted provided that the means of recording will not distract the participants or impair the dignity of the proceedings, and the hearing itself is a non-confidential proceeding. The Court, therefore, authorizes the recording and broadcasting of the hearing set for October 19, 2023."
Judge permits cameras in court for first time in Richard Allen hearing

I am curious to see if the newest leak is a topic in this hearing. One leak could be an oopsy. Two either speaks to duplicity or gross incompetence. Particularly after the gag order that was placed due to their presser upon their appointment as counsel that spurred the gag order in the first place. Three strikes and you are out MOO

 

[Emma Peel]

So now along with the circus of the central players we have additional sensationalising, sermonising and virtue signalling from the sidelines - good grief.

Do Aine and Kevin think they are the first people to receive unauthorised evidence from sources known/ unknown?

Do they not think that this happens to actual real journalists on a frequent basis?

And what do those real journalists do? They quietly hand them over to the proper authorities and move on without making a big scene about it.

What they don't do is - rush to broadcast; monetise their 'scoop'; quiet/ soft brag about seeing the photos and pass opinion on what they might mean for the case; sermonise about the actions of others when they are doing the exact thing they are seeking to criticise.

MS - you could have just handed the photos onto the authorities. You need to answer why chose to do much more than that.

On second thoughts, don't bother - you're not credible.

Agree.
Those dusty bookshelves ... speak volumes.

 

[Emma Peel]

MOO and speculating: was abby forced to help move libby's body?

 

[MistyWaters]

Are we allowed to discuss the GH video? He's been a confirmed source here for awhile. Mods please delete if not.

In the Gray Hughes video, he said the photos he had of the crime scene proved (in his opinion) that this was not an Odinistic ritual style killing. There were 2 sticks on each girl one over the left side of their body and one across their body. Like the killer had intended to try and build a cover up over them with sticks and leaves.

No runes displayed on the bodies or antlers above the girls heads, he clearly shows the supposed F on the tree in Libby's blood and it looks to me like a blood drip and dots of blood, not an intentional F.

MOO

Just wondering to myself more than anything, what would‘ve been the purpose of “M” plotting to meet with Baldwin to take the opportunity to clandestinely snap photos of crime scene pics and leak them into the public if the photos kiboshed the defence theory of Odinist runes and antlers?

And what’s with the Purdue professor who the defence claimed had emphatically supported the branches/sticks represented Odinist symbols?

How can the topic of branches and sticks, which should be quite simple become so conflicted? Is the defence that desperate, rather than defending RA by disputing the prosecution‘s evidence, they‘re only hope is to influence a jury into believing they are seeing something that’s not there?

That’s a refreshing thought in terms of Justice for Abby and Libby and their families —- the prosecution‘s evidence must be so compelling it can’t be refuted!!