IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #169

[FrostedGlass]

While updating one of my other cases, I was reminded that one of Laura Mitchell's accused murderers was denied a transfer to IDOC. The reason given was he did not meet the criteria. So that sent me on a mission to find what that criteria is. During that search, I found this, putting it here for ease in future searching. Bookmark it.

This is the 2022 Indiana Code
Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure
Article 33. Preliminary Proceedings
Chapter 11 addresses Emergency Transfer of Certain Inmates.

2022 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 33. Preliminary Proceedings

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

 

[arielilane]

Re: What laws were broken from last thread

The MS podcasters were guests on The Prosectors podcast the evening of the case.

They stated the breach went beyond the CS photos. The photos were the most incendiary for obvious reasons.

The MS podcasters talked about receiving text and FB messages and posts that described defense strategy and with whom / when defense attorneys were meeting. This “inside info” was described as being shared over time and not something someone could glean from a glimpse at carelessly stored crime scene photos.

IMO only AB withdrew because there was going to be much more that came out about the breach and it went way beyond what was described in the motion filed that morning. He may not have known what the witnesses were prepared to testify to until shortly before the hearing, and/or he may not have realized the extent of the damage.

MOO.

Do you happen to have (if so, could provide) date or title of the podcast? I enjoy listening to the prosecutors podcast and would be really interested in listening; however, wasn't able to locate a recent one featuring MS. TIA

 

[Emma Peel]

BTW anyone else see a glaring conflict of interest in the same LE who are being litigated against for misconduct with regard to the SW, are now investigating the D attorneys for criminal actions in same case...?

Is this how law works in Indiana?

Yes, agreed. And I've wondered the same.
(Does the law work in Indiana, or does Indiana work the law?)

As described, the LEAKs matter crosses state lines, so there's that wrinkle as well.

In my view, last Wednesday, as the LEAKs matter was to be heard, there was a circle (circus?) of potential conflicts.

Baldwin had a conflict. The P had a conflict. LE had a conflict.

One antidote to potential conflicts is disclosure. (Transparency.)
The Court has the power to keep the LEAKs issue transparent - or - to keep it under wraps.

Speaking of disclosures, I wonder what Monday's docket updates will bring.

With New Defense, seems to me the new D has no conflict ... but the LE (and therefore the P) conflicts remain.

JMO

 

[abams]

BTW anyone else see a glaring conflict of interest in the same LE who are being litigated against for misconduct with regard to the SW, are now investigating the D attorneys for criminal actions in same case...?

Is this how law works in Indiana?

Personally I don't see how it could not appear as a conflict of interest. I also won't be holding my breath to see if leaks from the prosecution to friendly media sources are taken as seriously (as in an investigation into their source)

 

[arielilane]

Perhaps it's just me, but isn't it proper protocol to lock your computer when you walk away from your desk, leave your office, etc? If even for a moment... Would you not use the same procedures and secure all sensitive material, which doesn't even belong to you? This isn't meant to be insensitive to the person's family who died by suicide. moo





MY GOODNESS! Memo says #RichardAllen’s attorney, Andrew Baldwin, was betrayed by a friend who didn’t respect his office space AND three people unrelated to the defense of Allen leaked the evidence - one of them then committing suicide!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715108211898962003

 

[MistyWaters]

Personally I don't see how it could not appear as a conflict of interest. I also won't be holding my breath to see if leaks from the prosecution to friendly media sources are taken as seriously.

I’d highly doubt Carroll County Sheriif’s Office investigated a leak that occurred in Franklin,IN. No conflict, since it’s out of their jurisdiction.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Yes, agreed. And I've wondered the same.
(Does the law work in Indiana, or does Indiana work the law?)

As described, the LEAKs matter crosses state lines, so there's that wrinkle as well.

In my view, last Wednesday, as the LEAKs matter was to be heard, there was a circle (circus?) of potential conflicts.

Baldwin had a conflict. The P had a conflict. LE had a conflict.

One antidote to potential conflicts is disclosure. (Transparency.)
The Court has the power to keep the LEAKs issue transparent - or - to keep it under wraps.

Speaking of disclosures, I wonder what Monday's docket updates will bring.

With New Defense, seems to me the new D has no conflict ... but the LE (and therefore the P) conflicts remain.

JMO

There are no docket updates yet.

I'm not understanding how NMcL was able to announce the RA confessions.
Wouldn't that have been sealed discovery?

 

[abams]

I’d highly doubt Carroll County Sheriif’s Office investigated a leak that occurred in Franklin,IN. No conflict, since it’s out of their jurisdiction.

I was talking about the news of the ISP investigation. An agency that was also involved in the underlying crimes on trial.

 

[schooling]

Perhaps it's just me, but isn't it proper protocol to lock your computer when you walk away from your desk, leave your office, etc? If even for a moment... Would you not use the same procedures and secure all sensitive material, which doesn't even belong to you? This isn't meant to be insensitive to the person's family who died by suicide. moo





MY GOODNESS! Memo says #RichardAllen’s attorney, Andrew Baldwin, was betrayed by a friend who didn’t respect his office space AND three people unrelated to the defense of Allen leaked the evidence - one of them then committing suicide!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1715108211898962003

View attachment 455350

“…left unattended even for a second”

I don’t know why but that line doesn’t read well. Comes off as amateur hour.

 

[MistyWaters]

I was talking about the news of the ISP investigation. An agency that was also involved in the underlying crimes on trial.

What specific involvement are you suggesting is a conflict?

My question is why is there finger pointing every direction except toward AB who’s the person who’s lack of due diligence allowed this leak to happen?

 

[MistyWaters]

There are no docket updates yet.

I'm not understanding how NMcL was able to announce the RA confessions.
Wouldn't that have been sealed discovery?

NMcL did not announce RA‘s confessions. If you recall the media petitioned the court to release a whole pile of previously sealed court documents, which in turn the Judge granted.

Delphi documents: Richard Allen told wife he killed girls; investigators believe knife used in murders

DELPHI, Ind. – Documents unsealed Wednesday in the 2017 Delphi murders provide new insight into the case against Richard Allen. They also reveal for the first time publicly how investigators believ…

fox59.com

 

[Salah11]

So before this happened sensitive Documents were just left out?

Also why would you leak such sensitive documents like what did these so called “leakers” get out of it?

I'm failing to grasp why anybody would do this and not think of the consequences . This isn’t like stealing money where y you gain something.

Moo

 

[CGBSpender]

BTW anyone else see a glaring conflict of interest in the same LE who are being litigated against for misconduct with regard to the SW, are now investigating the D attorneys for criminal actions in same case...?

Is this how law works in Indiana?

Litigated against for misconduct isn't quite how I'd characterize it. They cite alleged misconduct in support of a poorly drafted memo begging for a Franks hearing based upon an incomplete review of discovery, and as D's often do...engage in throwing everything up against the wall to see what sticks.

That said, I was under the impression that a former employee of the D was being investigated...not the D themselves. It would seem somewhat logical that LE would want to do a somewhat deep dive to see what the leaker's motive was. I also suspect that any investigation into alleged leaks may have been taking place before the Franks memo was contemplated, let alone filed. Info appears to have been leaking out like a sieve for several months.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

So before this happened sensitive Documents were just left out?

Also why would you leak such sensitive documents like what did these so called “leakers” get out of it?

I'm failing to grasp why anybody would do this and not think of the consequences . This isn’t like stealing money where you get you gain something.

Moo

According to MS podcast, apparently there was a concerted effort to “protect” the source of the leak by making it appear as if it was directly connected to another leak that AB admitted responsibility to, that occurred this past spring. Because of this plan in place dotting it’s and crossing t’s he probably thought he’d get away with it.

But that still does not answer what the leakers got out of it. If nothing more, maybe it was just a sick game, the leaker challenging himself to acquire confidential information knowing of AB‘s lax care of confidentiality and trusting personality? The power of being in the centre of having and sharing confidential information that others were yearning to seek obviously meant more than the risk he took.

If the ex-employees name ever comes out, I’d bet people will have concerns involving possible integrity issues involved in their own business especially if he also was an attorney. The ramifications are not only to AB and RA but to AB’s law firm.

JMO

 

[Salah11]

According to MS podcast, apparently there was a concerted effort to “protect” the source of the leak by making it appear as if it was directly connected to another leak that AB admitted responsibility to, that occurred this past spring. Because of this plan in place dotting it’s and crossing t’s he probably thought he’d get away with it.

But that still does not answer what the leakers got out of it. If nothing more, maybe it was just a sick game, the leaker challenging himself to acquire confidential information knowing of AB‘s lax care of confidentiality and trusting personality? The power of being in the centre of having and sharing confidential information that others were yearning to seek obviously meant more than the risk he took.

If the ex-employees name ever comes out, I’d bet people will have concerns involving possible integrity issues involved in their own business especially if he also was an attorney. The ramifications are not only to AB and RA but to AB’s law firm.

JMO

Thanks for there explanation

That’s the thing I struggled with as even with those confidential Docs it’s not like they could of sold them as nobody in their right mind would touch them as you are jeopardizing the case where 2 Children were murdered.

As soon as you tell any right minded person what you have done they would go straight to the authorities. It’s all very strange and I hope the true story comes out whatever it may be.

 

[iamshadow21]

Thanks for there explanation

That’s the thing I struggled with as even with those confidential Docs it’s not like they could of sold them as nobody in their right mind would touch them as you are jeopardizing the case where 2 Children were murdered.

As soon as you tell any right minded person what you have done they would go straight to the authorities. It’s all very strange and I hope the true story comes out whatever it may be.

You're much less cynical than me. I have no problem believing there are plenty of unscrupulous people who would purchase photos of dead children and plenty who would steal and sell those photos to make a profit. Neither side giving two figs for justice or the girls, just about themselves.

MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

Thanks for there explanation

That’s the thing I struggled with as even with those confidential Docs it’s not like they could of sold them as nobody in their right mind would touch them as you are jeopardizing the case where 2 Children were murdered.

As soon as you tell any right minded person what you have done they would go straight to the authorities. It’s all very strange and I hope the true story comes out whatever it may be.

I agree, it’s all very strange especially the reason why AB placed his trust in the leaker who was so ready to snooker, abuse and betray him. Apparently AB was seeking opinions about case from this ex-employee/trusted friend and so the sharing of information was happening, just that AB couldn’t have predicted it was going to be leaked including pics taken of crime scene photos. It’s not unusual for attorneys to utilize consultants but confidentiality agreements are obtained.

I realize it’s petty, but I’m wondering if the leaker charged for his consultative services?

 

[CGBSpender]

@MistyWaters - To answer your question in the previous thread, IC 35-42-1-1(2) does not require proof of intent ("Felony Murder"). IC 3542-1-1(1) requires proving "knowingly or intentionally" ("Intentional Murder"). The crux of Felony Murder is that the applicable felonies (kidnapping being one of them) are so inherently dangerous on their own, that any death that occurs through the commission of them should have been foreseeable to the defendant. Indiana Courts have narrowed the rule a bit, as the State must prove the defendant engaged in "dangerously violent and threatening conduct" during the commission of the felony.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

@MistyWaters - To answer your question in the previous thread, IC 35-42-1-1(2) does not require proof of intent ("Felony Murder"). IC 3542-1-1(1) requires proving "knowingly or intentionally" ("Intentional Murder"). The crux of Felony Murder is that the applicable felonies (kidnapping being one of them) are so inherently dangerous on their own, that any death that occurs through the commission of them should have been foreseeable to the defendant. Indiana Courts have narrowed the rule a bit, as the State must prove the defendant engaged in "dangerously violent and threatening conduct" during the commission of the felony.

JMO

Thanks for the explanation. Yes I agree Felony Murder does not require proof of intent. I notice Indiana‘s criminal code is also a bit different to other places as there‘s no level of murder, 1st degree, 2nd degree, 3rd degree etc, which makes it far simpler as opposed to categorizing IMO.

So it also seems reasonable that prosecutors have charged RA under Section 35-42-1-1 (2) since it’s easier to prove the accused is responsible for kidnapping and murder than proving the murder was intentional, as well as conviction under that felony murder charge qualifies for the death penalty. Without strong evidence of intentional murder, if the two charges were applied separately it could risk a murderer of being convicted of kidnapping only.

JMO

2022 Indiana Code :: Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure :: Article 42. Offenses Against the Person :: Chapter 1. Homicide :: 35-42-1-1. Murder

Justia Free Databases of US Laws, Codes & Statutes

law.justia.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

You're much less cynical than me. I have no problem believing there are plenty of unscrupulous people who would purchase photos of dead children and plenty who would steal and sell those photos to make a profit. Neither side giving two figs for justice or the girls, just about themselves.

MOO

I sadly agree with you @iamshadow21 . It's such a horrible thought, but the reality is that is happens every day in CSAM on the web and dark web. There is a market for this abomination for the right price.

ETA: MOO