IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

[StarryStarryNight]

From @DeDee’s recent post:

“I don't believe the children crossed the cold creek that day.”

I am just wondering why you think this? How do you think they got to the other side of the creek from where they were accosted.
Truly interested.
I will add…it is so refreshing to be able to discuss some aspect of the case that doesn’t involve judges and defense attorneys and motions and memos and all that craziness.

 

[MistyWaters]

<snipped to reply>

In order to honor Abby and Libby, the truth of what they endured should be made known. If the D has the truth, then the those responsible for placing Runes at the CS should face the music of their criminal actions.

I disagree with this strongly. Since Abby and Libby were children there’s nothing honorable about immortalizing the state of their deaths, truth or not, and worse it feeds the appetites of pedophiles. Family members even stated they wish for the girls to be remembered in life, rather than in death.

Not making the gruesome details public for the sake of the families would be the right reason for RA to fully acknowledge his confessions and change his plea to guilty.

JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

<snipped>
I will add…it is so refreshing to be able to discuss some aspect of the case that doesn’t involve judges and defense attorneys and motions and memos and all that craziness.

I agree. Certainly judges and defence attorneys are required for a trial of an accused to take place, but making them the focal point is a detraction away from it. IMO

 

[mrjitty]

IMO the writs are quite fascinating as actual hardcore law.

The problem is most of the discussion of them involves little discussion of the actual case law so I am a bit in the dark on what powers of removal the judge actually has.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Remember Baldwin said at the courthouse that journalists "need to do their job". So, I don't expect a lot of investigation into matters since the Leak Investigators will be investigating themselves.

I am not the only one who sees truth in what has been included in the D Memo. But, it wouldn't matter if I were for I use my own good common sense to form my opinions. IE., I don't think the Crime Flow by GrayHughes is accurate. I don't believe the children crossed the cold creek that day. No way LG shimmied up that steep embankment to get to RLs property.

No need to be sorry where the truth is concerned. Baldwin was betrayed by the friendship with a dirty player, MW. The release of the photos was timed according to strategy of the P, moo, and not the D. The purpose was to get the D attorney's to stop and withdraw representation. With the help of the Judge, their mission was accomplished. I hope the City of Delphi, Carroll County and the state will address their issues with CP and whatever else has them burdened.

In order to honor Abby and Libby, the truth of what they endured should be made known. If the D has the truth, then the those responsible for placing Runes at the CS should face the music of their criminal actions.

Thank you for allowing me to have an opinion.

RA was certainly spiraling into an abyss at Westville while being tormented by his Odin guards who tased him on May 9 and May 25. The phone confessions were made in June when the Odin guards were treating RA unjustly. Maybe the truth is that he was coerced into confessing due to fear over the lives of his family were in danger if he didn't.

Oct 10 2023

The correctional officers said they stopped wearing the patches on their uniforms in September 2023 when they were asked to remove them.

Court docs: Correctional officers overseeing Richard Allen deny practicing Odinism despite wearing religious patches on uniforms

Oct 16 2023

Prison Guards’ Pagan Pride – Admissions of Flaunting Norse Symbols While Overseeing Delphi Murder Suspect​

MSN

Why were the guards wearing Odin patches on their uniforms if not to torment their captive?
MOO

Pagan does not equal Odinism.


JMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

RA was certainly spiraling into an abyss at Westville while being tormented by his Odin guards who tased him on May 9 and May 25. The phone confessions were made in June when the Odin guards were treating RA unjustly.

RSBM/BBM

RA confessed to his wife and mother April 3, 2023.


Newly released documents claim Richard Allen confessed to Delphi Murders 'no less than 5 times' in jailhouse call

 

[DeDee]

From @DeDee’s recent post:

“I don't believe the children crossed the cold creek that day.”

I am just wondering why you think this? How do you think they got to the other side of the creek from where they were accosted.
Truly interested.
I will add…it is so refreshing to be able to discuss some aspect of the case that doesn’t involve judges and defense attorneys and motions and memos and all that craziness.

Other than the one reason I already mentioned, I believe the girls were ushered into a waiting vehicle at the private drive. I believe more people were involved, <modsnip>, as well as others.
<modsnip: no source link>
MOO

 

[DeDee]

RSBM/BBM

RA confessed to his wife and mother April 3, 2023.

Newly released documents claim Richard Allen confessed to Delphi Murders 'no less than 5 times' in jailhouse call

Correct!
Updated 11:37 AM EDT, Thu June 29, 2023
On April 3, Allen called his wife, Kathy Allen, one document states. “In that phone call, Richard M. Allen admits several times that he killed Abby and Libby,” according to the document.

“Investigators had the phone call transcribed and the transcription confirms that Richard M. Allen admits that he committed the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. He admits several times within the phone call that he committed the offenses as charged. His wife, Kathy Allen, ends the phone call abruptly,” the document went on to say.

 

[scapa]

That was covered by The Prosecutors who had looked at the case law

Far from being a 9D chess move, it seems it was a gambit that relied on one weak authority. No idea if they are correct, but in their view the Judge has quite broad authority to dismiss counsel

That's certainly one issue with that podcast.

Plenty of others have weighed in it seems, some agreeing that the judge has broad authority to dismiss; some disputing it.

Bottom line is that BR and AB are gone, and the case restarts with this new team, who are more likely, I'd expect, with the examples of the previous DT fresh in mind, to stay on-piste with any strategy they devise. Will that provide a more robust defence for RA? We'll find out I guess.

 

[Ward Thisperer]

RSBM

Am a lawyer but not US so posting as my opinion.

Exculpatory evidence would more relate to the probable cause for the arrest affidavit, or evidence at a preliminary hearing (e.g. to determine if the case should go to trial, or for bail purposes), or at the main trial.

Search warrants relate to the investigatory phase and in laymans terms, law enforcement only need to clear a low hurdle to suspect evidence will be recovered. There can be multiple suspects and multiple warrants executed.

tldr; for a search warrant, the question is whether there is enough grounds to suspect that evidence might be found at the address

By contrast, for an arrest affidavit, the exculpatory evidence showing alternate suspects could well be relevant. And especially at a preliminary hearing, where you determine whether there is a case to answer, exculpatory evidence would be highly relevant.

The main point here is that the exculpatory evidence is going to be relevant at trial, and in pre-trial evidentiary hearings. For example, the defence is presumably going to raise the entire KAK saga and say there has to be a real possibility the guy was involved.

But note the defence is not saying KAK had to be disclosed in the Search Warrant PCA

JMO, IANAL, but I continue to totally disagree that the discussion of the Odinism/Rushville investigation is not relevant to the Frank's motion. They are alleging that LE acted in bad faith to implicate RA while willfully ignoring the Rushville angle. If the evidence against the Rushville/Odin related suspects is clearly stronger than that against RA and Liggett was aware of this evidence, and Liggett could not have reasonably believed evidence would be found in RA's house/car/etc since the evidence clearly pointed to other suspects, resulting in him resorting to lying about the witness statements to create the reasonable suspicion needed for the SW, that seems extremely relevant to establishing bad faith for a Frank's Motion.

To be clear, I am not saying the evidence against those suspects IS sufficiently strong and that the argument will hold up in a hearing, as I haven't seen the evidence apart from the Defense's interpretation.

 

[DeDee]

I disagree with this strongly. Since Abby and Libby were children there’s nothing honorable about immortalizing the state of their deaths, truth or not, and worse it feeds the appetites of pedophiles. Family members even stated they wish for the girls to be remembered in life, rather than in death.

Not making the gruesome details public for the sake of the families would be the right reason for RA to fully acknowledge his confessions and change his plea to guilty.

JMO.

Ok. Lemme catch my breath. You strongly disagree that the truth be told.

The D is representing the accused, RA. Folks should be prepared for their work in that regard. We were going to find out CS details in JAN at his trial anyway. The Family cannot be protected from the truth unless they stay in isolation.

No one was more shocked than myself when the D Memo dropped but everything suddenly made sense.

Indiana has plenty of pedos and sexual deviants without the help of this case. Shall I find links for you?

MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Correct!
Updated 11:37 AM EDT, Thu June 29, 2023
On April 3, Allen called his wife, Kathy Allen, one document states. “In that phone call, Richard M. Allen admits several times that he killed Abby and Libby,” according to the document.

So now that you can see that RA confessed on April 3, 2023.
Would you please circle back around to your incorrect statement bolded below?
Why do you believe RA’s statement was coerced when it was made months prior to the alleged abuse by the guards?
If he had already confessed to the crime, what purpose would the guards have in abuse? If the goal was to coerce his confessions?

RA was certainly spiraling into an abyss at Westville while being tormented by his Odin guards who tased him on May 9 and May 25. The phone confessions were made in June when the Odin guards were treating RA unjustly. Maybe the truth is that he was coerced into confessing due to fear over the lives of his family were in danger if he didn't.

RSBM/BBM

 

[Emma Peel]

IMO the writs are quite fascinating as actual hardcore law.

The problem is most of the discussion of them involves little discussion of the actual case law so I am a bit in the dark on what powers of removal the judge actually has.

yup - I agree that the writs offer some nerdy fun.
Perhaps SCOIN will decide it's time to make some case law and clarify ... one way or the other.

 

[DeDee]

So now that you can see that RA confessed on April 3, 2023.
Would you please circle back around to your incorrect statement bolded below?
Why do you believe RA’s statement was coerced when it was made months prior to the alleged abuse by the guards?
If he had already confessed to the crime, what purpose would the guards have in abuse? If the goal was to coerce his confessions?

It has been addressed already. RA should never have been sent to Westville. We have no idea exactly how he was treated by the guards this entire time nor what the prisoners were allowed to do. We do know the guards with Odin patches tased him twice. RA is probably mistreated the entire time. Look how they bring him into court dressed and shackled like no presumed innocent defendant I've seen. Compare his treatment to BryanKohberger and it's night and day.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

That's certainly one issue with that podcast.

Plenty of others have weighed in it seems, some agreeing that the judge has broad authority to dismiss; some disputing it.

Yes - that is the problem with the coverage such as it is. Hopefully Judge Gull's brief will cite the actual authorities she relied on. The other issue is that if the duo actually withdrew, then it might all be moot.

Bottom line is that BR and AB are gone, and the case restarts with this new team, who are more likely, I'd expect, with the examples of the previous DT fresh in mind, to stay on-piste with any strategy they devise. Will that provide a more robust defence for RA? We'll find out I guess.

It can hardly be worse!

 

[susiQ]

Pagan does not equal Odinism.


JMO

I would counter it does in fact fall under pagan worship, at least according to this webpage.

Norse Paganism: what is it, and what do its followers believe? - Routes North

Abandoned when Christianity spread through Scandinavia, and then forgotten about for centuries, Norse Paganism is making a bit of a comeback.

www.routesnorth.com

 

[Ravenmoon]

I would counter it does in fact fall under pagan worship, at least according to this webpage.

Norse Paganism: what is it, and what do its followers believe? - Routes North

Abandoned when Christianity spread through Scandinavia, and then forgotten about for centuries, Norse Paganism is making a bit of a comeback.

www.routesnorth.com

I am Pagan.
I don't practice Odinism.
Odinism falls under the umbrella of paganism.
99.99 percent of Pagans DO NOT practice Odinism.

 

[MistyWaters]

Ok. Lemme catch my breath. You strongly disagree that the truth be told.

The D is representing the accused, RA. Folks should be prepared for their work in that regard. We were going to find out CS details in JAN at his trial anyway. The Family cannot be protected from the truth unless they stay in isolation.

No one was more shocked than myself when the D Memo dropped but everything suddenly made sense.

Indiana has plenty of pedos and sexual deviants without the help of this case. Shall I find links for you?

MOO

What‘s the benefit of releasing descriptions of how the girls were killed long before the trial? It just causes needless speculation. At this point in time everything contained in the memo is biased toward the defense of RA. A trial by media cannot occur especially since a gag order is in place, regardless of how strongly the ex-D hoped for pretrial speculation to benefit their ex-client. If this was their best shot that suggests to me RA has a very weak defense in the courtroom - where it matters most.

 

[susiQ]

I am Pagan.
I don't practice Odinism.
Odinism falls under the umbrella of paganism.
99.99 percent of Pagans DO NOT practice Odinism.

I didn’t say ALL pagans practice Odinism. However, Odinism does fall under paganism.

 

[AC4RD]

... They are alleging that LE acted in bad faith to implicate RA while willfully ignoring the Rushville angle. If the evidence against the Rushville/Odin related suspects is...

rsbm but "...They are alleging that LE acted in bad faith to implicate RA while willfully ignoring the Rushville angle."

They tried to implicate someone who admits he was at the scene, looks like Bridge Guy, lives a mile from the CS, and has a matching pistol? Seems like RA has implicated his own self about as well as anybody could.

So tell me this: Ricky was there, fishwatching and talking to his stockbrokers, at the same approximate time, right? So why didn't he see these pagan orthodontists, and tell police that he saw them--bravely decked out in their prison-guard finery and wearing caps that said "Make Odin great again"--that he saw them marching two girls down the hill? Didn't think it was important enough to be worth mentioning?

Is it just me or is that hard to believe?