IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #173

[FrostedGlass]

Time will tell. I believe they were bluffing on being ready to go, but if so, they should be filing that pre-signed Motion for Speedy Trial any day now. Even one of the Justices yesterday asked why they (R&B) hadn't filed it since they've had one since August.

moo

They didn't even have all the discovery until JG set the deadline for November. It would make no sense (IMO) to file for a speedy trial until all the discovery was in their possession.

OTOH, it makes sense they had the motion in hand early due to the problems of easy access to RA.

 

[girlhasnoname]

They didn't even have all the discovery until JG set the deadline for November. It would make no sense (IMO) to file for a speedy trial until all the discovery was in their possession.

OTOH, it makes sense they had the motion in hand early due to the problems of easy access to RA.

Nov 1st was the deadline for discovery and they already had the majority, although the Defense admitted they hadn't positively even gone through all of the Discovery themselves in their own Franks Memo in Oct. Perhaps they've used the time they've had off the case to get caught up?

Speedy Motion will give them 60-70 days so, if they are really ready like they say they are, it should all be fine. I say file today.

Everybody is ready to get this trial moving, even the Justices from yesterday said so themselves.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

@Niner a couple of new entries
Updates for RA

01/19/2024	Appearance Filed Appearance - Public Defender For Party: Allen, Richard M.
01/19/2024	Order Received from the Indiana Supreme Court Published Order

Edited to add second appearance filed

01/19/2024

Appearance Filed Appearance For Party: Allen, Richard M.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Thanks. I'll have that when the court updates his case.

Yes it was not widely reported.

 

[photographer4]

With the defence not getting the desired speedy trial relief, I assume they'll file that today or early next week in order to max out their tactical advantage of catching the prosecution unprepared.

So that means trial in early April?

Total lost time of around 2.5 months I guess.

But maybe they'll now reveal it was all a double bluff. I do suspect the defence don't want to get to trial at all, but rather pull the rug on the search warrant and try to collapse the case pre-trial.

At last we heard from the Frank's thing, BR & AR were still waiting on various items of disclosure. Did the covering counsel obtain that in the meantime? That might have a lot of impact on when this can go to trial and how prepared the counsel can be.

 

[photographer4]

The SCOIN denied Judge G's recusal that RA's attorneys asked for. Can the new ExD even Motion for it at this point?

MOO

I mean, they *could*, but the SCOIN seems to have made it clear *they* don't believe she needs to, so in that instance, would she feel the need to? Curious now to see how this unfolds!

 

[Salah11]

So we should see a speedy trial which is the only upside here?

Hopefully RA fries for what he did that day and all the game playing backfires spectacularly on him.

MOO

 

[Emma Peel]

The SCOIN denied Judge G's recusal that RA's attorneys asked for. Can the new ExD even Motion for it at this point?

MOO

Perhaps the better question is why wouldn't the D motion for a recusal from a Judge who powerfully (not once but) twice declared - on the record - that the D was completely unfit to be in her Court repping RA?

Seems to me, the D is obligated to argue for a Judge that can make decisions free of any bias that RA's counsel are incompetent to represent him.

(Maybe - out of courtesy for the process - the D waits for the full Decision.)

Heck, if I'm the P, I'd join the D in that recusal motion to protect the guilty verdict I intend to win.
JMHO

 

[Emma Peel]

So we should see a speedy trial which is the only upside here?

Hopefully RA fries for what he did that day and all the game playing backfires spectacularly on him.

MOO

Another upside: Protecting the eventual verdict.

 

[Salah11]

Another upside: Protecting the eventual verdict.

I still hate the system but I’m British so at least I won’t ever have to use it. Completely unprofessional from the lawyers involved and have made a mockery out of the murder of two teenage girls to further their agenda. It’s actually quite sickening what has been allowed to happen in this case and my heart goes out to the girls loved ones. I hope RA suffers for the next 30 years as I have no doubt he is guilty and I pray he gets the harshest penalty possible.

MOOOOOOOOO

 

[Emma Peel]

I mean, they *could*, but the SCOIN seems to have made it clear *they* don't believe she needs to, so in that instance, would she feel the need to? Curious now to see how this unfolds!

By SCOIN's order denying RA motions 2 (SCOIN removal of Gull) and 3 (SCOIN sets 70 day calendar) ... it appears they've decided they (SCOIN) isn't going use its powers to remove Gull.

We don't have the SCOIN decision, just the order so ... we only have impressions and everyone will have a slightly different impression.

That being said ... my impression is we may see SCOIN find that SCOIN is the wrong venue for motions 2 and 3 and reference the appropriate venues for those motions. I also think we'll see a decision sensitive to and underscoring RA's speedy trial right.

Practically speaking, by deciding motion 1 (reinstatement of D) as they did, SCOIN doesn't need to get involved with Motions 2 and 3. Both Motion 2 (recusal) and Motion 3 (calendar) can be raised in the lower Courts. And of course, Gull is free to recuse without either party motioning for recusal.

JMHO

 

[Willow Knight]

Seems like it.

Jump off your post in response to if LE found more evidence. So hope there would be a witness to testify that RA knew a head of time Libby and Abby were going to be on the trails that day.

My gut tells me KAK and/or his father are somehow involved. So, I'm sure I have tunnel vision. I believe several people had access to the AShots account, and that is how RA knew the girls were going to be in that location at that time. IMO

 

[Willow Knight]

DBM Double Post..sorry

 

[Salah11]

Jump off your post in response to if LE found more evidence. So hope there would be a witness to testify that RA knew a head of time Libby and Abby were going to be on the trails that day.

My gut tells me KAK and/or his father are somehow involved. So, I'm sure I have tunnel vision. I believe several people had access to the AShots account, and that is how RA knew the girls were going to be in that location at that time. IMO

This makes zero sense as even his own lawyers have not mentioned KAK.

IMO

 

[Emma Peel]

I still hate the system but I’m British so at least I won’t ever have to use it.

SBM

It's the system that protects civil rights. What's to hate?
FWIW, the Brits' system is likewise based upon the Presumption of Innocence.


Presumption of innocence - Wikipedia

"Presumption of innocence" serves to emphasize that the prosecution has the obligation to prove each element of the offense beyond a reasonable doubt (or some other level of proof depending on the criminal justice system) and that the accused bears no burden of proof.[22] This is often expressed in the phrase "presumed innocent until proven guilty", coined by the British barrister Sir William Garrow (1760–1840)[23] during a 1791 trial at the Old Bailey. Garrow insisted that accusers be robustly tested in court. An objective observer in the position of the juror must reasonably conclude that the defendant almost certainly committed the crime.[24] In 1935, in its judgment of Woolmington v Director of Public Prosecutions, the English Court of Appeal would later describe this concept as being 'the golden thread' running through the web of English criminal law. Garrow's statement was the first formal articulation of this.[25]

 

[Ravenmoon]

Libby and abby are NOT the point of this particular matter though. Sad but true. This is a matter of legal issues and only that. JG made up the rules at her whim and fired counsel because she was irritated with them. I don't think a judge should be allowed to just trample RA's rights, whether or not he is guilty of the crime. That seems like her personal bias was showing through and I'm glad it's being checked - even if that means we wait to get the trial back on track.

I do understand why people feel the way that you do.

To say that she made up rules on a whim, I disagree with. <modsnip>

I really hope that those who are Pro B&R are at least able to concede that have done many improper things.

At this point, if Judge Gull recuses herself, then so be it.

Let's just get this trial moving so that families and friends can finally grieve.


JMO

 

[Megnut]

This makes zero sense as even his own lawyers have not mentioned KAK.

IMO

It's possible that RA's assorted lawyers aren't mentioning KAK because, rather than introducing a SODDI, they invite a scrutiny that would not benefit their client. Especially if it exposes linkage to CSAM, for example.

JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Let's not forget that 2 things have changed in the course of this disaster:

1. RA cannot use Ineffective counsel for an appeal if he is found guilty.

2. His attorneys can't claim that he is insane. He had to show that he has enough competency to fight to keep his counsel.


These 2 things are pretty impactful for the future and for the trial.

Let's get at it.

Wondering if RA is having any regrets after finding out some pretty essential things are off the table.


JMO

 

[Betty P]

Let's not forget that 2 things have changed in the course of this disaster:

1. RA cannot use Ineffective counsel for an appeal if he is found guilty.

2. His attorneys can't claim that he is insane. He had to show that he has enough competency to fight to keep his counsel.


These 2 things are pretty impactful for the future and for the trial.

Let's get at it.

Wondering if RA is having any regrets after finding out some pretty essential things are off the table.


JMO

Changing the charges from second to first degree murder also changes things. RA can't have ineffective counsel at this stage. He has to be assigned attorneys who are certified to handle death penalty cases. Here's a roster and guidelines:

Capital (Death Penalty) Attorney Roster

www.in.gov

Trial judges must independently verify that an attorney meets the qualifications prior to appointment.

Criminal Rule 24 contains a continuing legal education requirement that must be met by attorneys representing the indigent prior to being appointed to a capital case. To be eligible to serve as lead or co-counsel, Criminal Rule 24 states an attorney must “have completed within two (2) years prior to appointment at least twelve (12) hours of training in the defense of capital cases in a course approved by the Indiana Public Defender Commission”. See CR 24 (B)(1)(d) and (B)(2)(c).

Link to the roster

https://ingov.sharepoint.com/sites/PDComPortal/Lists/2022%20Death%20Penalty%20List/Website%20View.aspx?env=WebViewList

 

[Andieinsyd]

Let's not forget that 2 things have changed in the course of this disaster:

1. RA cannot use Ineffective counsel for an appeal if he is found guilty.

2. His attorneys can't claim that he is insane. He had to show that he has enough competency to fight to keep his counsel.


These 2 things are pretty impactful for the future and for the trial.

Let's get at it.

Wondering if RA is having any regrets after finding out some pretty essential things are off the table.


JMO

Agree this is a big deal. The D set up for mental health concerns with talking about RA behaviour that was schizophrenic and the eating paper etc but as you say they can’t really use it now.
I think a massive concern for them is RAs admission. What can they do with this. It seems like rather than mental health they are going coercion/threats by Odinist Guards for this.
Seems like a massively long bow to me. Crime scene had elements that may be construed as linked to a cult or religion…to it was Odinist sacrifice of two white girls (even though IMO this isn’t part of Odinism)…to being forced to make a confession by some Odinist guards in prison and wait, they are also in the new prison!…I know the D are spectacularly proud of this strategy *shrug* we’ll see.
MOO