IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #173

[photographer4]

@alcaprari23

JUST IN: Prosecutors have amended their charges against accused #Delphi killer Richard Allen. He now faces four counts of murder & two counts of kidnapping. Two more charges of murder were added since the crime was committed during the act of another felony crime, kidnapping.


2:54 PM · Jan 18, 2024

Wait. I’m confused. How does he end up with four murder charges for two kids?

 

[photographer4]

I have a question - did anyone here see the leaked photos of the crime scene? What did they contain?

If anyone here admitted to having seen them, would they not be at risk of investigation by LE? I haven’t seen them, nor do I wish to see them but if anyone here had, I would hope that they would contact LE rather than disclose the info and spread the leak even further.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Wait. I’m confused. How does he end up with four murder charges for two kids?

This article explains it pretty well. Basically, he is now being charged with murder(1) intentional murder AND murder(2) - felony murder / kidnapping.
Bottom line:
“If convicted on all four counts of murder, he can only be sentenced on two murder counts, and all four charges carry the same possible sentence: between 45 and 65 years in prison. Additionally, the kidnapping charges carry a possible prison sentence of between three and 16 years if convicted, according to Indiana law.”

Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen faces 4 new charges. Why that matters

Accused Delphi killer Richard Allen now faces four counts of murder and two counts of kidnapping.

www.jconline.com

 

[photographer4]

Rozzi never officially withdrew. Baldwin only “withdrew” under Hobson’s choice duress without due process or a hearing. Even re: Baldwin’s oral withdraw they would need a hearing (due process) and official record of withdrawal. Gull skipped all of that bc she wanted them off the case. JMO.

Her bias against them is so very clear! I hope she bails!

 

[photographer4]

No BR did withdraw. He said so in that filing/protest letter. He said (paraphrasing) he lied to the judge in chambers.

If he said that she is surely biased now if she wasn’t already!

 

[steeltowngirl]

This article explains it pretty well. Basically, he is now being charged with murder(1) intentional murder AND murder(2) - felony murder / kidnapping.
Bottom line:
“If convicted on all four counts of murder, he can only be sentenced on two murder counts, and all four charges carry the same possible sentence: between 45 and 65 years in prison. Additionally, the kidnapping charges carry a possible prison sentence of between three and 16 years if convicted, according to Indiana law.”

Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen faces 4 new charges. Why that matters

Accused Delphi killer Richard Allen now faces four counts of murder and two counts of kidnapping.

www.jconline.com

Quoting my own post.. questioning the possible sentence of 45 - 65 years. Isn’t kidnapping an aggravating circumstance- thus DP-eligible, as others have been discussing here?

Aggravating Circumstances in Indiana Criminal Cases

Learn how aggravating circumstances affect criminal cases, then call Keffer Hirschauer to get a leading Indianapolis defense lawyer on your case.

www.indyjustice.com

Indiana General Assembly

Website for Indiana's General Assembly

iga.in.gov

 

[photographer4]

Given the guy who bragged about having taken the pictures of the evidence photos did so on his phone, I'm pretty sure the exif data would make proving it easy. And hasn't he been charged? There would have to be enough linking him directly to the pictures for the arrest warrant. Digital investigation by LE would make short work of the trail.

MOO

You can edit or change exit data. It’s done in cam settings on a dslr or cam software or on a phone in the device itself. It’s not even hard to do. You can probably also use apps to do it. Or. If you change the date / time / location on your device in settings globally, it may be possible to skew the exif data such that it may not know reliably where it (the device) was or which day and time photos were taken. Would any method be enough to fool investigators? That I don’t know. How far did Westerman go to hide his tracks of if any length at all? I’d like to know if the office in which they were stored is identifiable in his images? Or did he just snap up close and it doesn’t show anything other than the evidentiary photos? I’m very curious to see how his matter plays out before the courts as well!

 

[photographer4]

This article explains it pretty well. Basically, he is now being charged with murder(1) intentional murder AND murder(2) - felony murder / kidnapping.
Bottom line:
“If convicted on all four counts of murder, he can only be sentenced on two murder counts, and all four charges carry the same possible sentence: between 45 and 65 years in prison. Additionally, the kidnapping charges carry a possible prison sentence of between three and 16 years if convicted, according to Indiana law.”

Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen faces 4 new charges. Why that matters

Accused Delphi killer Richard Allen now faces four counts of murder and two counts of kidnapping.

www.jconline.com

Ty!

 

[Sheila Terranova]

It's happened many times before. The lead suspect in the Maddie McCann case was tipped in by a criminal associate who was arrested for something unrelated many years later.

That’s true. Tips get ignored. I called in the canal killer twenty years before they caught him and no one acted on it. They did fly out and interview me before his trial though.

 

[mrjitty]

(A) A judge shall disqualify himself or herself in any proceeding in which the judge's impartiality* might reasonably be questioned, including but not limited to the following circumstances:
(1) The judge has a personal bias or prejudice concerning a party or a party's lawyer, or personal knowledge* of facts that are in dispute in the proceeding.

I think given her multiple on the record statements about their incompetence/gross negligence/dishonesty, her disagreements with their strategy in this case, and her attempt to disqualify them, it would be reasonable to question Judge Gull's impartiality in regards to Baldwin & Rozzi. She may be fully capable of divorcing her personal feelings about them from any rulings on the case, but there will certainly be a portion of the public who wonders about her motivations whenever she rules against them. IMO, given that, it would be wise for her to recuse herself if they continue on the case. But she's the one who would make the decision on that, at least initially.

I agree the arguments about perceived bias are better than actual bias.

Reading the reaction of Shay Hughes, I think if SCOIN thought there was actual bias, they would have removed Judge Gull as part of the logic of reinstating the attorneys. Of course we need their reasoning to reach any conclusion on that point

But I do agree the question of perceived bias (e.g by the public) is reason enough to recuse. Why not simply recuse and take this off the table for good. All the conspiracies are harmful. Defuse it now. As we are seeing right now on Murdaugh, there is no reason to think a new Judge is a 'win' for any party. Be careful what you wish for etc!

https://x.com/publicdefender_/status/1748163219686879441?s=20

 

[mrjitty]

With the defence not getting the desired speedy trial relief, I assume they'll file that today or early next week in order to max out their tactical advantage of catching the prosecution unprepared.

So that means trial in early April?

Total lost time of around 2.5 months I guess.

But maybe they'll now reveal it was all a double bluff. I do suspect the defence don't want to get to trial at all, but rather pull the rug on the search warrant and try to collapse the case pre-trial.

 

[girlhasnoname]

UPDATE: Indiana Supreme Court orders Richard Allen’s original defense team of Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rozzi to be reinstated to the case. The court will not remove Judge Fran Gull from the case and will not order the trial to commence within 70 days.

Indiana Supreme Court reinstates Richard Allen’s original attorneys; judge remains on case

Full videos of Thursday’s hearing are included at the end of the story. INDIANAPOLIS — The Indiana Supreme Court ordered that Richard Allen’s original defense team be reinstated on the …

fox59.com

That was fast. This will be interesting to see how the ExD and Judge G will interact going forward <awkward anyone?>. The order said the majority ruled to have ExD reinstated, but it also says they unanimously agreed to keep Judge Gull on and No Speedy Trial issued. This, along with the new charges updated by the State, is very interesting to me.

I bet R&B are thanking their lucky stars they don't have to have their Defense ready to go in 60-70 days. They were nowhere near ready. Was there any mention of a future trial date or are they sticking to Oct 24?

Last thought, what happens to the new lawyers Judge G appointed? Will they work with R&B or just ride off into the sunset?

What a complete nightmare this entire case has been IMO. I had my visor for bfast this morning, didn't taste so good going down.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

So can B+R now simply file the speedy trial motion? I don’t get why they needed SCOIN to order that. Why not just file it on Friday?

I would think R&B could file speedy trial motion, I think the SCOIN was just stating they were not ordering one, even though the EXD had said they are ready to go right now (as of Jan 14) in their argument.

It will be very telling to see if they do file a Motion for Speedy Trial or take this time to actually build their case. That would give them 9 months if they're sticking to the Oct 2024 date.

The SCOIN made the ruling to reinstate R&B to protect RA's 6th amendment rights. I think they believed that Judge G did not handle it according to the rules governing disqualification of counsel. I don't like R&B and still think they are sneaky and underhanded, but I respect the decision of the SC's ruling and the protection of RA's rights.

At least that won't be an appealable issue when he's found Guilty.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

It will be interesting to read the SCOIN opinion.

If they reinstated B&R on purely procedural grounds (Gull failed to hold a hearing and provide an adequate record for their disqualification), then I could see her moving forward with disqualification again. But if they get to the substance of the disqualification argument and say that you can't disqualify defense attorneys for the reasons she gave, then I imagine B&R are going to move for her recusal. And, IMO, in that situation she should recuse.

The SCOIN denied Judge G's recusal that RA's attorneys asked for. Can the new ExD even Motion for it at this point?

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Wait. I’m confused. How does he end up with four murder charges for two kids?

Three of the Gilgo Beach victims, RH is charged with both 1st and 2nd degree murder. It's not uncommon, I don't think, at this stage, for there to be multiple levels of charges.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

It was a lawyer that was speaking on behalf of Judge Gull who mentioned RA's mental health...in the context of if he was even aware of all that was going on in the SC and if his mental health was good enough to judge things capably. That's why it surprised me.

And shortly after that was when RA's lawyer read the letter he supposedly wrote saying he wanted AB & BR as his attorneys.

Yes, that's what I said. JG's lawyer brought that up because R&B have used it many times in their Motions to JG. JG even warned them that if they continued to rely on RA's mental health issues, that could be opening the door to the Prosecution to have possible access.

RA's appellate lawyer read the letters that RA had written on R&B's behalf, yes.

Did we get lost in translation somewhere? I know it's been hard for all us to follow Defense attorneys, ExD, New Defense Attorneys and now new old Defense Attorneys.

MOO

 

[katydid23]

Maybe they found more evidence?

Seems like it.

 

[mrjitty]

I would think R&B could file speedy trial motion, I think the SCOIN was just stating they were not ordering one, even though the EXD had said they are ready to go right now (as of Jan 14) in their argument.

I always wondered if that request was just signalling that they were serious about moving fast. As the Supreme Court asked, how the court could make that order when the motion was never filed in the lower court. And as RA's lawyers (whichever ended up going forward) can always file such a motion - why does the court need to order it?

I remember this was discussed by the various legal commentators talking about the case but i don't recall anyone having a sensible answer.

 

[Megnut]

I always wondered if that request was just signalling that they were serious about moving fast. As the Supreme Court asked, how the court could make that order when the motion was never filed in the lower court. And as RA's lawyers (whichever ended up going forward) can always file such a motion - why does the court need to order it?

I remember this was discussed by the various legal commentators talking about the case but i don't recall anyone having a sensible answer.

Or signaling to give the impression they were serious about moving fast in order to drum urgency, that his right to a speedy trial was threatened by the Judge's very actions.

The proof will be evident going forward if we see swift movement or we see what looks to be deliberate counter-delay.

As for the Judge and any lingering overt/covert bias, it is her actual job to judge without bias. For me, it's not whether she does or doesn't have that capacity. She probably does. The greater issue for me is the appearance of bias. That alone could derail justice.

JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Yes, that's what I said. JG's lawyer brought that up because R&B have used it many times in their Motions to JG. JG even warned them that if they continued to rely on RA's mental health issues, that could be opening the door to the Prosecution to have possible access.

RA's appellate lawyer read the letters that RA had written on R&B's behalf, yes.

Did we get lost in translation somewhere? I know it's been hard for all us to follow Defense attorneys, ExD, New Defense Attorneys and now new old Defense Attorneys.

MOO

Sorry if I was redundant, it wasn't consciously done, my bad It's such a web of this, that and the other thing...along with the kitchen sink.