IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #174

[girlhasnoname]

I have a feeling something big is going to come to a head with this case before the 7 year anniversary on Feb 13th. I don't know exactly what or why, just a spidey sense that the State is going to go all in. They've been playing it on the down low, but with all that's happened recently, I think they're going to show their cards and we all might be in for a big surprise.

I still believe there was someone else involved with RA. KK & the CSAM ring info timing was all just more than coincidence IMO.

Yes, I know my offer still stands, I'm still marinating my favorite golf visor JIC.

MOO

 

[TL4S]

Yes, and I thought it was interesting that he said the part you highlighted "I think he's not guilty or innocent because I believe the presumption of innocene is one of the most important legal theories that we have.....

He didn't say he thought RA was innocent. He said what any Defense Attorney should say.

I highly appreciate that he shared his positive thoughts about Judge Gull. That means something to me, he could have said nothing at all.

MOO

My sense is that L thinks AB, BR, and JG are all smart people who are capable of conducting their jobs well. Maybe I'm an idealist, but to me, L seems to be suggesting that there might be something to the D's defense, and it shouldn't just be blown off. And he is also saying that he thinks highly enough of JG that she will do this fairly. In a way, it's like his way of mediating. Maybe JG should hear out the D, and maybe the D should trust her to. Idk...

 

[TL4S]

yes, some articles seem to suggest he is convinced RA is innocent and also convinced of the Odinistic cult ritual killing and later conspiracy against RA theory. But his actual words do not seem to convey that.

His actual words to BMcD were that he thinks one girl was sacrificed and the other murdered.

 

[girlhasnoname]

His actual words to BMcD were that he thinks one girl was sacrificed and the other murdered.

If he said that he might be buying into the Odinist fanfic (IMO) at least as a possible SODDI.

I think Libby was targeted and Abby was with her friend at the wrong place and time. I can still see that beautiful picture of Abby that Libby took of her on the bridge right before the monster showed up.

moo

 

[TL4S]

If he said that he might be buying into the Odinist fanfic (IMO) at least as a possible SODDI.

I think Libby was targeted and Abby was with her friend at the wrong place and time. I can still see that beautiful picture of Abby that Libby took of her on the bridge right before the monster showed up.

moo

I think L was being honest when he said he thought one girl was sacrificed and the other murdered. I also think he's honest about there being scary Odin (white supremacy) stuff going on in Indiana, and throughout the prison system.

However, I don't think the two have to be directly related.

Like you, I'm wondering more and more if the killer had one target, who he "murdered," and the other girl was "sacrificed" because she was there. If that make sense. And neither had anything to do with Odin, even if the killer practiced Odinism and accidentally left behind hints of that.

The Odinist guards might be innocent pagans, or the most racist of racists, but either way they probably don't like child killers, especially if they've heard rumors there was Odin sign left at the CS.

Just thinking out loud...

 

[Emma Peel]

thank you for this article. some of the comments by former defense attorney LeBrato that stood out to me:

ABOUT ODINIST THEORY:
“There are people that follow this Odin religion,” he said. “There are people that were very brazen at the time of the murders on their Facebook accounts about being part of this Odinistic cult. Whether they’re responsible, I don’t know. I don’t want to get into what our legal defense theory would’ve been because I don’t want to hinder the current attorneys.”
ABOUT RA:
“He’s always very respectful to us in our meetings with him,” Lebrato said. “I think he’s not guilty or innocent because I believe the presumption of innocence is one of the most important legal theories that we have. That presumption of innocence carries with him through every stage of the trial, until the jury has heard all the evidence, including closing arguments, and until they deliberate. That presumption of innocence follows him the whole way.”
ABOUT Judge Gull:
Lebrato thinks highly of Special Judge Fran Gull. He’s practiced law in front of Gull for more than two decades and believes she can be impartial, despite calls from the defense to have her removed from the proceedings.
“Judge Gull knows no other way than to be fair,” he said. “She does not play favorites. The Supreme Court didn’t pick her name out of a hat. They chose her for a specific reason. In their ruling, they unanimously voted that Judge Gull stays on this case.”

He said her “ethical and moral standards” were beyond reproach.

With respect, a fine point (a fine point for Lebrato, really).
As far as we know, SCOIN voted unanimously to deny a motion to remove Gull.
No decision yet.
So I don't think we've seen language from SCOIN (yet) indicating SCOIN "unanimously voted that Gull stays on this case" (Lebrato's imprecise comment) MOO

yes, some articles seem to suggest he is convinced RA is innocent and also convinced of the Odinistic cult ritual killing and later conspiracy against RA theory. But his actual words do not seem to convey that.

Lebrato's actual words to Barbara McDonald on Jan 19th conveyed that clearly.
Agree that in this fox interview Lebrato answer is not the full answer Lebrato gave McDonald.

Here's the article for the McDonald interview w/ Lebrato - with quotes from Lebrato where, IMO, his words do convey it, IMO:

EXCLUSIVE: Richard Allen's former defense attorney doubts he'll get a fair trial

When I asked him whether Richard Allen would get a fair trial, he responded, “It’s going to be hard.”

“You asked me last night if I thought my client committed this crime, and I do not, but that doesn’t matter,” he said.

“But would I have liked to stay on the case? It’s a fascinating case, and it’s rare that you have such a high-profile case where you honestly think you have an innocent client. Now, maybe I’m crazy thinking that, I don’t know, but that’s my opinion,” he said.

 

[Emma Peel]

I think L was being honest when he said he thought one girl was sacrificed and the other murdered. I also think he's honest about there being scary Odin (white supremacy) stuff going on in Indiana, and throughout the prison system.

However, I don't think the two have to be directly related.

Like you, I'm wondering more and more if the killer had one target, who he "murdered," and the other girl was "sacrificed" because she was there. If that make sense. And neither had anything to do with Odin, even if the killer practiced Odinism and accidentally left behind hints of that.

The Odinist guards might be innocent pagans, or the most racist of racists, but either way they probably don't like child killers, especially if they've heard rumors there was Odin sign left at the CS.

Just thinking out loud...

re: one girl sacrificed, the other girl killed.

Just my take:
I took "sacrifice" vs. "killed" as Lebrato's focus on differentiating forensic/crime scene observations between the two victims.

I hadn't thought about this differentiation being about the killer's motive. So that is very interesting.

JMHO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think L was being honest when he said he thought one girl was sacrificed and the other murdered. I also think he's honest about there being scary Odin (white supremacy) stuff going on in Indiana, and throughout the prison system.

However, I don't think the two have to be directly related.

Like you, I'm wondering more and more if the killer had one target, who he "murdered," and the other girl was "sacrificed" because she was there. If that make sense. And neither had anything to do with Odin, even if the killer practiced Odinism and accidentally left behind hints of that.

The Odinist guards might be innocent pagans, or the most racist of racists, but either way they probably don't like child killers, especially if they've heard rumors there was Odin sign left at the CS.

Just thinking out loud...

I hear you friend, I think out loud about this case far too often.

I am truly past the point of being wrong or right, I just want to see justice for these young girls and I want the guilty person(s) to pay dearly.

Can you believe they'd be 20, 21 by now if not for that day? It shocks me when I stop and really think about that. They're not just a case on WS or another true crime forum. They were real human beings, innocent young girls, with friends and families who loved them dearly, and who had their whole lives ahead of them. I believe they both would have done great things. Libby did by having the wherewithal to capture BG on video.

It's past time for answers.

MOO

 

[Salah11]

With respect, a fine point (a fine point for Lebrato, really).
As far as we know, SCOIN voted unanimously to deny a motion to remove Gull.
No decision yet.
So I don't think we've seen language from SCOIN (yet) indicating SCOIN "unanimously voted that Gull stays on this case" (Lebrato's imprecise comment) MOO




Lebrato's actual words to Barbara McDonald on Jan 19th conveyed that clearly.
Agree that in this fox interview Lebrato answer is not the full answer Lebrato gave McDonald.

Here's the article for the McDonald interview w/ Lebrato - with quotes from Lebrato where, IMO, his words do convey it, IMO:

EXCLUSIVE: Richard Allen's former defense attorney doubts he'll get a fair trial

<modsnip>
Even with the few facts we do know all signs point to his guilt. I fail to picture multiple men all dressed exactly as BG waiting on that bridge moments before the girls walked across and of course RA was the only one spotted that we know of on that first platform. It will definitely be fascinating to see what else they have besides their fictional tale of a cult.

<modsnip>

moo

 

[Vern]

With respect, a fine point (a fine point for Lebrato, really).
As far as we know, SCOIN voted unanimously to deny a motion to remove Gull.
No decision yet.
So I don't think we've seen language from SCOIN (yet) indicating SCOIN "unanimously voted that Gull stays on this case" (Lebrato's imprecise comment) MOO


...

RSBM,

What SCOIN actually "denied unanimously" was a motion "to remove Gull and to appoint a new special judge." Denied. (See (3) at linked document).

IMO, they are saying that Gull will remain on the case and will not be replaced by a new judge with that language.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748100605606785053

 

[girlhasnoname]

RSBM,

What SCOIN actually "denied unanimously" was a motion "to remove Gull and to appoint a new special judge." Denied. (See (3) at linked document).

IMO, they are saying that Gull will remain on the case and will not be replaced by a new judge with that language.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748100605606785053

Thanks, I was just going to try and dig that up. The majority, so not unanimously, voted to reinstate R&B, but they unanimously denied the rest.

 

[Emma Peel]

Judge Gull sets hearing for Feb 12 on:
P's new charges against RA
Ps motion for Contempt

 

[twall]

Judge Gull sets hearing for Feb 12 on:
P's new charges against RA
Ps motion for Contempt

View attachment 479996

Waiting for the camera request filings from media...

 

[Emma Peel]

RSBM,

What SCOIN actually "denied unanimously" was a motion "to remove Gull and to appoint a new special judge." Denied. (See (3) at linked document).

IMO, they are saying that Gull will remain on the case and will not be replaced by a new judge with that language.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1748100605606785053

We agree that the motion was denied.
My understanding is RA's ability to motion in the lower court for DQ of Gull remains after this SCOIN decision.

Of course, we still await the more detailed SCOIN Decision, and perhaps we'll see the SCOIN decided to reach down into the lower court and forbid the parties to request recusal and or motion for DQ of the Judge. But the SCOIN attitude during the hearing was ... they prefer not to engage and let things work out in the lower Court.

JMHO

Noting that in today's Scheduling order from Gull, there is no mention for setting a DQ motion hearing.

Perhaps a Decision from Gull on the DQ motion is forthcoming?

 

[Emma Peel]

Noting:

It seems we're still waiting on the scheduling of RA's hearing for his Transfer Motion (Motion old D wrote). So far, just a minute order that agreed to schedule that hearing.

 

[TL4S]

Noting:

It seems we're still waiting on the scheduling of RA's hearing for his Transfer Motion (Motion old D wrote). So far, just a minute order that agreed to schedule that hearing.

Contempt motion hearing is 2/12. BM on DD podcast just posted that JG can't rule on anything until the recusal motion is dealt with. He thinks that indicates she is going to deny the recusal motion without a hearing before 2/12. Guess we'll see...

 

[Emma Peel]

Contempt motion hearing is 2/12. BM on DD podcast just posted that JG can't rule on anything until the recusal motion is dealt with. He thinks that indicates she is going to deny the recusal motion without a hearing, I'm assuming before 2/12. Guess we'll see...

Yes, that sure seems the buried headline in this scheduling order.
But ... where is RA's transfer hearing the Court mentioned in her previous minute decision set?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

We agree that the motion was denied.
My understanding is RA's ability to motion in the lower court for DQ of Gull remains after this SCOIN decision.

Of course, we still await the more detailed SCOIN Decision, and perhaps we'll see the SCOIN decided to reach down into the lower court and forbid the parties to request recusal and or motion for DQ of the Judge. But the SCOIN attitude during the hearing was ... they prefer not to engage and let things work out in the lower Court.

JMHO

Noting that in today's Scheduling order from Gull, there is no mention for setting a DQ motion hearing.

Perhaps a Decision from Gull on the DQ motion is forthcoming?

The way I read it the first day was that the request by the defense to remove the judge was denied.
I took that to mean, that was that. SCOIN did not say we’re sending it back down to a lower court. They denied it. Just like they ruled the old defense was back on board, that was that.
They are the highest court in Indiana, with no one left to appeal it to.
The last thing we need is to start relitigating things over and over.
Get this thing to trial ASAP

 

[zh0r4]

From the Court TV YT video transcript, which doesn't translate quite as well as it could. IMO
29:30 mm
CT: I mean there's been talk I know a couple things about Richard Allen that I'm not going to say
today, I'm getting a lot of information about I am about another connection to a hunter out
there and...

Has a hunter ever come up earlier in the investigation? Does that statement make sense to anyone re: suspects?

 

[zh0r4]

Just as clarification, Lebrato did not mention hunters.

The Court TV format for the Lebrato interview included chopping up Lebrato's interview with opining panelists.

One of the panelists eluded to a number of unsupported alternate theories - among these, he said something about currently running down rumors he's heard about a hunting theory.

IMO - the panelists on this episode seemed weak choices offering irrelevant commentary.

FWIW and JMHO

I wish they would have interviewed someone with extensive knowledge of occult crimes like the professor/psychologist/author Dr. Randall Noblitt. Or at least had panelists that offered differing opinions. JMO.