Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #88

[margarita25]

A couple quick thoughts / notes:

To do:

1. Revisit MAP
( Welcome to The Murder Accountability Project! ) and look for clusters within, say, 200 miles? Revisit Indianapolis, Chicago, etc.

2. Check current data and status on untested rape kits in Indiana and neighboring states. Shoot every state for that matter.

Sigh.

ETA:
New program announced to track status of Indiana rape kits

 

[Falling Down]

Good analogy, book thinker, and i used to downhill ski often and was very good at it.

I've wondered if BG has been an iron worker or something similar in the past, or may still do similar work. Could be he kills in between jobs, often times skilled construction labor folks have gaps between big projects. Two co-workers I've had since moving to IN 3.5 years ago have done grain elevator work when they were young. not for the squeamish, and some of the folks who do that kind of work for many years are rough people. The type of work I'm talking about involves refurbishing grain elevators, repairing them, upgrading them, etc. It's nasty, dirty, dangerous work, whether it be iron work, welding, mechanical, electrical, etc.

There's an Andersons elevator/terminal complex a stone's throw from the bridge area, along C.R. 300. I've wondered for a while if BG had ever done work at the grain complex.

I agree that BG crossed that bridge rather quickly. We don't know an exact time for it, how long it took him, etc. However that would be a cause for alarm for anybody at the SE end of the bridge, that day. Here's an individual who is lurking along the trails, and then you see him crossing the bridge towards you.

My guess is he crossed in under five minutes. If he is, indeed, familiar with the bridge, i think it fits in with my theory that he had recon'd the bridge before. I think he had the entire scenario mapped out in his mind, and had even timed everything: The walk to the bridge from the parking area, crossing the bridge, the walk to the creek, the walk from the murder scene to the cemetery, etc.

I think this guy is that meticulous, it would explain the speed with which he was able to do his deeds, and how he was able to slip out of there, undetected.

MOO

 

[book-thinker]

Good analogy, book thinker, and i used to downhill ski often and was very good at it.

I've wondered if BG has been an iron worker or something similar in the past, or may still do similar work. Could be he kills in between jobs, often times skilled construction labor folks have gaps between big projects. Two co-workers I've had since moving to IN 3.5 years ago have done grain elevator work when they were young. not for the squeamish, and some of the folks who do that kind of work for many years are rough people. The type of work I'm talking about involves refurbishing grain elevators, repairing them, upgrading them, etc. It's nasty, dirty, dangerous work, whether it be iron work, welding, mechanical, electrical, etc.

There's an Andersons elevator/terminal complex a stone's throw from the bridge area, along C.R. 300. I've wondered for a while if BG had ever done work at the grain complex.

I agree that BG crossed that bridge rather quickly. We don't know an exact time for it, how long it took him, etc. However that would be a cause for alarm for anybody at the SE end of the bridge, that day. Here's an individual who is lurking along the trails, and then you see him crossing the bridge towards you.

My guess is he crossed in under five minutes. If he is, indeed, familiar with the bridge, i think it fits in with my theory that he had recon'd the bridge before. I think he had the entire scenario mapped out in his mind, and had even timed everything: The walk to the bridge from the parking area, crossing the bridge, the walk to the creek, the walk from the murder scene to the cemetery, etc.

I think this guy is that meticulous, it would explain the speed with which he was able to do his deeds, and how he was able to slip out of there, undetected.

MOO

I like your ideas, A iron worker or something similar. Gaps between jobs. Or he works 10 hours days with 3 days off. This Anderson elevator/ terminal
sounds interesting.
Someone with little fear of heights and good balance.
If BG did cross the bridge in 5 minutes it didn’t give the girls much time to realize
what was happening until it was to late.

I’m from Colorado, and went skiing as much as possible. Downhill skiing on powered snow is the best.

 

[carbuff]

He certainly looks like he's familiar with walking on railroad tracks and bridges, but it wouldn't have to be that particular bridge. The downhill skiing analogy is a good one--you need some skill to walk it, but once you've done it a few times, you can transfer your skill to other trails and bridges. Yeah, you need a head for height, but that's kind of random. I would need to be careful and stay away from the edges. My brother would breeze across.

 

[Jade]

I think that someone with a disorder like Axis 2, Cluster B, have little personal fear.

Antisocial personality disorder

>>>>>

· Aggressive, often violent behavior

· Disregard for the safety of self or others

>>>>

· Lack of remorse for behavior
​

Personality disorders - Symptoms and causes


Ironworkers are in shape physically and wear different clothes. Not dad jeans. They like a slim fit so it doesn’t get hung up on things. Oh and a Carhart jacket not a loose ill fitting windbreaker and they are much more handsome…..


In my opinion and experience

​

 

[travelbug]

The type of work I'm talking about involves refurbishing grain elevators, repairing them, upgrading them, etc. It's nasty, dirty, dangerous work, whether it be iron work, welding, mechanical, electrical, etc.

Good analysis, it also reminds me that there was a grain elevator (that LE investigated), on the property where the bodies were found.

 

[Jerrod]

Good analysis, it also reminds me that there was a grain elevator (that LE investigated), on the property where the bodies were found.

There is no grain elevator on the parcel of land belonging to RL.

 

[kc1023]

There is no grain elevator on the parcel of land belonging to RL.

Across the street from RL I believe. Sort of on a corner? iirc

 

[carbuff]

That wasn't a grain elevator. I don't remember exactly but it might have been a feed silo or something like that. *goes to poke through old videos*

 

[travelbug]

There is no grain elevator on property belonging to RL.

I apologize, apparently I'm confused regarding the location. I just recall that LE was investigating one that was near the crime scene.

 

[dotr]

Snippets of aerial jobs..
10 jobs for people who don’t have a fear of heights
by Dawn Papandrea
Firefighter
What you’d do: There’s no doubt that it takes courage and fortitude to become a firefighter, and laddering up tall buildings is just one part of it. Firefighters respond to emergencies and accidents of all types, but especially those involving home, building, or brush fires.
Glazier
What you’d do: As a glazier, you’d install glass windows on skyscrapers and other buildings, thereby providing ample views of the land below to all the people who work in said buildings.
Lighting technician
What you’d do: Although we’re not talking hundreds of feet up in most cases, comfort with ascending tall ladders or walking across catwalks above large arenas might be all in a day’s work for a lighting tech. These pros install, maintain, repair, and operate lighting for all sorts of commercial buildings from offices to hotels to event halls.
Pilot
What you’d do: Considering that most of your work day is spent up to 39,000 feet in the air, it’s safe to say that piloting is the epitome of the sky-high professions. Airline and commercial pilots essentially transport people and cargo in the air.
Rock-climbing instructor
What you’d do: Not just anyone is willing to hang off the side of a mountain (or from an indoor rock climbing wall, for that matter), but rock-climbing instructors teach daredevils how to do just that. As an instructor, you have to be able to model safe climbing techniques, as well as pass along knowledge of how to use climbing gear, ropes, and harnesses
Roofer
What you’d do: Working atop a home or commercial building might not seem as intimidating as other “up there” jobs, but when the roof is pitched or you’re dealing with weather elements like wind, the height factor becomes all the more significant.
Steelworker
What you’d do: Ever think how fun it would be to dangle off of the side of a bridge or elevated roadway? If there’s even a hint of hesitation in your answer, being a steelworker probably isn’t in the cards for you. Steel and ironworkers raise, repair, and reinforce all sorts of steel structures from the ground up—sometimes way up.
Tree trimmer
What you’d do: If you were the type of kid that loved climbing trees, consider this job the grown-up version. Only as a tree trimmer, you’ll use a combination of climbing and rigging systems to get high enough to cut away branches to maintain tree health
Wind turbine technician
What you’d do: Today’s wind turbines have doubled in size in the last few years to an average height of 328 feet, so those who install, maintain, and repair them must have technical skills and an adventurous spirit.
Window cleaner
What you’d do: A familiar sight to city dwellers safely on the ground, window cleaners wash windows from a small platform that hangs from ropes on the side of tall buildings and skyscrapers."

 

[kizzykat]

I can't find a MSM link for it yet, but here is some news from the court at MyCase.Gov:

APPOINTMENT OF DEPUTY PROSECUTING ATTORNEY - ROBERT T. IVES
04/10/2019
Oath Filed
Oath of Service filed.
Filed By: Ives, Robert T.
File Stamp: 04/10/2019
Case Search - MyCase

Apparently he's back? Could there possibly be a new development and he wants back on the team to finish the case since he was there from the beginning? This was a comment he made when he stepped down at the end of 2017:
Ives said if charges had been filed, he would not resign and try to see them through, and that he will be willing to offer any help to whomever replaces him.
Carroll Co. prosecutor to step down

 

[ab01]

There is a storage silo across the street from RL property, but nothing like a "grain elevator". MOO

A grain elevator consists of a Leg and pit which allows dumping and lifting of grain in multiple Bins or silos and is generally found in large farming operations. Or at a local commission Co. Where as a Silo is merely a fee standing structure that that just holds normally wet un dried grain.

Just to add the small silo that was on the neighboring property is not the type that would likely have and automated sweep or anything that would have the need for a technician to work on. In my opinion its a very old silo that probably isn't still in use, based on the type of operation that still exists on that property. I believe that a large family farming operation owns that and surrounding property and no longer have livestock on that location IMO If they still use it, it likely would only be for extra storage if needed, in a yr that has excedingly high yields....MOO

 

[gregjrichards]

I can't find a MSM link for it yet, but here is some news from the court at MyCase.Gov:

APPOINTMENT OF DEPUTY PROSECUTING ATTORNEY - ROBERT T. IVES
04/10/2019
Oath Filed
Oath of Service filed.
Filed By: Ives, Robert T.
File Stamp: 04/10/2019
Case Search - MyCase

Apparently he's back? Could there possibly be a new development and he wants back on the team to finish the case since he was there from the beginning? This was a comment he made when he stepped down at the end of 2017:
Ives said if charges had been filed, he would not resign and try to see them through, and that he will be willing to offer any help to whomever replaces him.
Carroll Co. prosecutor to step down

It is interesting Mr. Ives is back is he going to be Mr. McLeland’s deputy now?

 

[book-thinker]

I checked the distance from Monon high bridge to the local grain elevator. It’s 2.4
miles, 45 minutes walking distance, 15 minutes by bicycle; interesting detail from entrance of Monon high bridge trail
a person could easily cross the w300m
road and you come to train tracks that run directly into this property

 

[kizzykat]

It is interesting Mr. Ives is back is he going to be Mr. McLeland’s deputy now?

It appears that way. The local government website (link below) lists Mr. McLeland as PA, Mr. Bean as Chief Deputy PA, and with Mr. Ives shown being sworn in as Deputy PA yesterday, it looks like he's been brought back on board in an official capacity. I'm still unable to find anything in MSM but I can't envision an appointment like this randomly landing on the MyCase.gov site.

I hope this is a good sign! Like everyone following this case, I can't wait for the day the red alerts on this thread go on overload!
Carroll County Court System

 

[dixiegirl1035]

It appears that way. The local government website (link below) lists Mr. McLeland as PA, Mr. Bean as Chief Deputy PA, and with Mr. Ives shown being sworn in as Deputy PA yesterday, it looks like he's been brought back on board in an official capacity. I'm still unable to find anything in MSM but I can't envision an appointment like this randomly landing on the MyCase.gov site.

I hope this is a good sign! Like everyone following this case, I can't wait for the day the red alerts on this thread go on overload!
Carroll County Court System

I'm surprised local media has not had an article on such. Perhaps they are not aware yet?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Hey guys. I’m about done here. I have been following this case since the girls went missing...spent a good bit of time lurking before I started commenting. I just need a break from thinking about it and I feel for the families who cannot take a break.
You guys are amazing. Together we have discussed every aspect of this case to the tiniest detail. Every tree, every leaf, every pixel in that picture of BG. Every nuance of the audio. Every pervert mentioned within a thousand miles. Every theory. Every rumor. Every possibility. There is nothing left to talk about with the limited information we have.
Up until fairly recently LE used the public as an ally in fighting crime and solving cases. Not so anymore. Did it change because of social media? I don’t know but, in my opinion, it shouldn’t have. Police used to release pretty much everything about a case in hopes someone would recognize some aspect that would help solve it. They would keep a few things to themselves which was right. Now the norm is to release nothing, absolutely nothing. In this particular case it almost feels like the police feel like you and I are more the enemy than the actual killer. We are the ones they are fighting to defeat. They release nothing because they want to protect the integrity of the case they say, but none of that was necessary 10 or 15 years ago. Name a case that was thrown out because of something that was said or done by a member of the public after LE released some information. I’m sure there probably is one...somewhere...maybe. Now name how many cases were solved because a member of the public contacted police after hearing about some information LE released and it jogged their memory about something.
Let me be clear, I do not want info released so we can all know the lurid details, but after 2 years, LE is doing a disservice to the families and the community by continuing with this failing strategy. I know LE is working hard but two dozen POI after two years is nothing to crow about.
I hope something will break soon and I will jump back on here. I will check back in from time to time...just in case.
I need to not think about it for awhile. I guess this is what LE wants from all of us. To just go away. Stop thinking. But I won’t stop caring.

 

[MJPeony]

Hey guys. I’m about done here. I have been following this case since the girls went missing...spent a good bit of time lurking before I started commenting. I just need a break from thinking about it and I feel for the families who cannot take a break.
You guys are amazing. Together we have discussed every aspect of this case to the tiniest detail. Every tree, every leaf, every pixel in that picture of BG. Every nuance of the audio. Every pervert mentioned within a thousand miles. Every theory. Every rumor. Every possibility. There is nothing left to talk about with the limited information we have.
Up until fairly recently LE used the public as an ally in fighting crime and solving cases. Not so anymore. Did it change because of social media? I don’t know but, in my opinion, it shouldn’t have. Police used to release pretty much everything about a case in hopes someone would recognize some aspect that would help solve it. They would keep a few things to themselves which was right. Now the norm is to release nothing, absolutely nothing. In this particular case it almost feels like the police feel like you and I are more the enemy than the actual killer. We are the ones they are fighting to defeat. They release nothing because they want to protect the integrity of the case they say, but none of that was necessary 10 or 15 years ago. Name a case that was thrown out because of something that was said or done by a member of the public after LE released some information. I’m sure there probably is one...somewhere...maybe. Now name how many cases were solved because a member of the public contacted police after hearing about some information LE released and it jogged their memory about something.
Let me be clear, I do not want info released so we can all know the lurid details, but after 2 years, LE is doing a disservice to the families and the community by continuing with this failing strategy. I know LE is working hard but two dozen POI after two years is nothing to crow about.
I hope something will break soon and I will jump back on here. I will check back in from time to time...just in case.
I need to not think about it for awhile. I guess this is what LE wants from all of us. To just go away. Stop thinking. But I won’t stop caring.

I totally get it. I've only been following this case a short time, so I can only imagine how much more frustrating it would be if I'd been following it from the start. I too feel like LE seems to be antagonistic towards the public- with comments about how we're getting it all wrong, etc. Yet they are still asking for our help. It doesn't seem to make sense. However- I keep coming back to the fact that I know LE wants to solve this case. It makes no sense that they would purposefully be holding back info if it could help get justice for these families. Particularly since it's been TWO YEARS. So the only conclusion I draw is that LE knows who the perp is/has a good idea, and they have to have some type of corroboration until they can actually arrest him. There is something specific they need. And releasing more info to the general public is exactly what they CAN'T do b/c they need this specific info for corroboration.

That's all I got. It is incredibly frustrating though.

 

[Falling Down]

Andersons has a large grain elevator facility a stone's throw from the bridge:

Google Maps

Norfolk Southern has a busy line through Delphi, and a spur which splits off to the Andersons complex. So the complex is served by both IN-25 and NS.