Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #88

[JnRyan]

Although I don't post on this thread all that frequently, I read every day.

Man, I just thought having an actual PHOTO of this guy and his VOICE captured, we would have him by now. That might be the most perplexing part of this case for me, actually. I remember when they released the image of him, my thought was "Amazing! We'll get him. Within a few days, lots of people will be calling in with his name." Then silence.

This is the one thing that makes me feel like he was living quite a distance from Delphi at the time. Maybe he had previously been to Delphi and knew the area around the high bridge, but like others have hypothesized, his work took him there or through there or near there or he just purposely traveled from his home to commit crimes. The reason I think this is, though the photo is fairly grainy, if I KNEW this person, I would still be like "Hey, that looks an awful lot like so-and-so." However, if I lived across the country or even two states away from the crime scene, my doubts might creep in. "Well this looks like Bob (random name), but he lives in MN, so why would he be in IN?" And then not call it in because I doubt myself. Even if this guy kept to himself most of the time at home, he obviously did leave his house at times. SOMEONE has to know this person. I am so baffled on this.

Hoping for justice for these sweet girls and their families.

I also can't help but think he is familiar with this trail and bridge, but he actually lives far away. Maybe he lived here when he was in elementary school or middle school and his appearance is different enough now no one would make the connection. Maybe he always lived far away, but visited an aunt/uncle or grandparents in the Delphi or the surrounding area. The trail may have not been there then, but with the bridge not being used by the railroad since 1987 there is a chance the bridge itself may have been visited prior to the trail by several locals. If this killer lives by himself who would know he took such a trip and thus make the connection to the murders?

I also wonder if he has committed other murders. With the FBI and ISP involved you would think they would make a connection somewhere else. Since the primary tool for this is the FBI's ViCAP with its known weaknesses, he could have committed murder elsewhere and not have that crime in ViCAP. Of course, he could have committed a murder elsewhere and all is know is that the victim is missing without any details of a murder. I do believe he has possibly committed violent crimes such as sexual assault, probably of other children or even adults, in the past whether he has been caught or not.

 

[Jabarn]

I also can't help but think he is familiar with this trail and bridge, but he actually lives far away. Maybe he lived here when he was in elementary school or middle school and his appearance is different enough now no one would make the connection. Maybe he always lived far away, but visited an aunt/uncle or grandparents in the Delphi or the surrounding area. The trail may have not been there then, but with the bridge not being used by the railroad since 1987 there is a chance the bridge itself may have been visited prior to the trail by several locals. If this killer lives by himself who would know he took such a trip and thus make the connection to the murders?

I also wonder if he has committed other murders. With the FBI and ISP involved you would think they would make a connection somewhere else. Since the primary tool for this is the FBI's ViCAP with its known weaknesses, he could have committed murder elsewhere and not have that crime in ViCAP. Of course, he could have committed a murder elsewhere and all is know is that the victim is missing without any details of a murder. I do believe he has possibly committed violent crimes such as sexual assault, probably of other children or even adults, in the past whether he has been caught or not.

I lean toward this as well. You would think with BG’s confidence (?) and understanding of the bridge and how to complete the crime would be a clue. I know we can’t sleuth it here, but I do wonder about BG having famiarity with the area because he had an opportunity to become familiar with the area when he was perhaps living there when he was younger.

Another aspect that I think about is he was a transient and living in the area due to do a life experience where he had no where left to go. He may have had skills to live off the grid, maybe sleeping outdoors or in a low cost hotel for a short period.

Both of these scenarios could go hand in hand- he lived there before and came back but didn’t have a place to go back to stay. IMO.

 

[Falling Down]

RE: The trail.

According to older comments (pre-2017) on various bridge-related sites I've seen, about the main trail which ends at the bridge, it was cleaned up in '04 after not getting any real attention since CSX abandoned the RoW, and had ended up owned by the family which owns the land adjacent to it.

Folks I've corresponded with who are familiar with the bridge area, and had fun there as kids (say 25+ years ago), would've remembered it as being a fun and peaceful place to hang out, and better maintained than how it ended up in the 90's and up until recent years. So, again as many of us have wondered, how did BG know about the bridge? More recent years? Prior to '04? Recent photos I've seen of the trail show it very overgrown with vegetation during the warmer months. Has he been there during the warmer months?

I just find it hard to believe he scouted out the trail and bridge area on just that one day two years ago.

 

[gregjrichards]

Although I don't post on this thread all that frequently, I read every day.

Man, I just thought having an actual PHOTO of this guy and his VOICE captured, we would have him by now. That might be the most perplexing part of this case for me, actually. I remember when they released the image of him, my thought was "Amazing! We'll get him. Within a few days, lots of people will be calling in with his name." Then silence.

This is the one thing that makes me feel like he was living quite a distance from Delphi at the time. Maybe he had previously been to Delphi and knew the area around the high bridge, but like others have hypothesized, his work took him there or through there or near there or he just purposely traveled from his home to commit crimes. The reason I think this is, though the photo is fairly grainy, if I KNEW this person, I would still be like "Hey, that looks an awful lot like so-and-so." However, if I lived across the country or even two states away from the crime scene, my doubts might creep in. "Well this looks like Bob (random name), but he lives in MN, so why would he be in IN?" And then not call it in because I doubt myself. Even if this guy kept to himself most of the time at home, he obviously did leave his house at times. SOMEONE has to know this person. I am so baffled on this.

Hoping for justice for these sweet girls and their families.

I actually have never thought the photo was going to be a big help or his voice unfortunately the photo is not clear enough. If we had a close up image of his face it would have been a major advantage. His clothing is also like so many men in the mid west. There is nothing about the image that would make you think “OMG that’s Bill” for example. The voice clip is also too short and doesn’t make him easily identifiable. I’m not being critical of Libby at all she did her absolute best in being able to capture the image and voice. It is amazing that she had the presence of mind to do it. I really wish we had a vehicle or a tattoo or something that helped identify him. I do think law enforcement will get him I just don’t know when. I just hope and pray it isn’t going to be years and years from now. Hopefully the forensics will help solve this.

 

[dotr]

Who would walk around an area like that on a Monday in February if not a dog walker?
If the perp had hoped/planned to nab a young teen or two, why would he go there of all places in the middle of a school day?
Did he know there was no school that day, if so -how?
imo. speculation.

 

[gregjrichards]

Who would walk around an area like that on a Monday in February if not a dog walker?
If the perp had hoped/planned to nab a young teen or two, why would he go there of all places in the middle of a school day?
Did he know there was no school that day, if so -how?
imo. speculation.

The school the girls attended has a website and Facebook page I don’t know if it was announced the school would be closed when this horrific tragedy occurred but it would not have been hard for him to find out it was. I have often wondered if he found out the school was closed and thought he would try his luck at the trail that day. Or if the opportunity presented itself and he decided now or never.

I don’t know if he was a dog walker he could have used it as ruse that he was looking for his dog. I think it would be difficult for him to attack and murder two teens and control a dog at the same time. If he did have a dog I would imagine the eyewitness would have seen it and it would have been announced by law enforcement that he had a dog and what breed it was.

 

[TheVisual]

Who would walk around an area like that on a Monday in February if not a dog walker?
If the perp had hoped/planned to nab a young teen or two, why would he go there of all places in the middle of a school day?
Did he know there was no school that day, if so -how?
imo. speculation.

My thoughts exactly. When the witness who had the dog encountered BG I wonder if there was a problem with his dog and hers and he didn't go for her as an opportunity. I hope we find out.

 

[JnRyan]

I actually have never thought the photo was going to be a big help or his voice unfortunately the photo is not clear enough. If we had a close up image of his face it would have been a major advantage. His clothing is also like so many men in the mid west. There is nothing about the image that would make you think “OMG that’s Bill” for example. The voice clip is also too short and doesn’t make him easily identifiable. I’m not being critical of Libby at all she did her absolute best in being able to capture the image and voice. It is amazing that she had the presence of mind to do it. I really wish we had a vehicle or a tattoo or something that helped identify him. I do think law enforcement will get him I just don’t know when. I just hope and pray it isn’t going to be years and years from now. Hopefully the forensics will help solve this.

With the photo, voice and volume of tips - I thought that LE had this guy nailed. I believed this killer had to be somewhat familiar with the trail and bridge and was therefore local. Just a matter of a couple months at most. After all, how many crimes get solved within a few months and it appears LE has less.

With over 2 years gone by and I now see that was a mistake. Then we had a sketch and STILL no results. I believe if he was living within a 25 mile radius of the crime there would be numerous tips called in on him already. Which is why I believe this guy may not even be a resident of the county or even the bordering counties.

 

[kkdj]

My thoughts exactly. When the witness who had the dog encountered BG I wonder if there was a problem with his dog and hers and he didn't go for her as an opportunity. I hope we find out.

Did I forget something? BG had a dog and encountered another person with a dog?

 

[gregjrichards]

Did I forget something? BG had a dog and encountered another person with a dog?

Law enforcement have never said anything about BG having a dog. I have searched for news articles or law enforcement updates about a dog walker witness encountering BG and can’t find anything apart from unsubstantiated rumours on another forum.

 

[dotr]

Just to clarify my dog comment, it is not that i think BG was walking a dog, but rather it would be unusual for anyone who was not walking a dog imo, to be walking around that area at that time, ie. on a Monday in the middle of February.
Yet, if BG was there with a plan to hurt anyone, it seems like that would not be the best place to find somebody, ie, school-Monday-February ect.
So, what was he doing there unless he knew in advance that the school was closed, or the girls would be there, or he was transient/homeless, or he was nearby for other legitimate reasons, saw the girls and acted impulsively???
speculation, imo.

 

[kkdj]

Just to clarify my dog comment, it is not that i think BG was walking a dog, but rather it would be unusual for anyone who was not walking a dog imo, to be walking around that area at that time, ie. on a Monday in the middle of February.
Yet, if BG was there with a plan to hurt anyone, it seems like that would not be the best place to find somebody, ie, school-Monday-February ect.
So, what was he doing there unless he knew in advance that the school was closed, or the girls would be there, or he was transient/homeless, or he was nearby for other legitimate reasons, saw the girls and acted impulsively???
speculation, imo.

The girls weren't walking a dog afaik and it was a hangout place for teens. Also, school being out that day was publicized iirc so others would know. jmo

 

[dotr]

Random thoughts as i wonder if BG was local and whether the murders were pre-planned or not.
Speculation, imo.
The girls iirc, were there to take photos and it does not seem as if teens were hanging out there that day, perhaps finding other places to go (somebody's house) as it was the start of a work week in the middle of February.
Students, parents, staff would know there was no school that day, but the average joe with no connection to the school would not be likely to be tuned into that information.
Could it be that BG was aware of the school closing because he had been quietly stalking the girls for awhile waiting for the right opportunity?
Is he someone who travels around, regularly popping into those type of wood settings, knowing that eventually a potential victim might present themselves?
Would any vulnerable looking person do, or was he specifically hunting young teenage girls?

 

[TheVisual]

Did I forget something? BG had a dog and encountered another person with a dog?

I think he did but many here just make fun of it. But I have my own personal reasons for saying this.

 

[TheVisual]

If you check out the Image Thread page 13, post 257 by Michael Gartley you can clearly see the double lead leash hanging on BG's left leg. In the right knee forward picture you can see it pulled back and probably held back by a finger of the hand in his left pocket.

 

[kkdj]

dbm

 

[Jabarn]

I think it is a possibility BG was stalking or maybe hanging around in the Monon High Bridge area, not sure who might show up, like a hunter.

Like many have stated before, it seems likely he had surveilled the area and knew the area. Could he have done that in a few hours, a day, or weeks, it’s hard to know, but the transient theory could explain why no one recognizes him in Delphi. IMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think it is a possibility BG was stalking or maybe hanging around in the Monon High Bridge area, not sure who might show up, like a hunter.

Like many have stated before, it seems likely he had surveilled the area and knew the area. Could he have done that in a few hours, a day, or weeks, it’s hard to know, but the transient theory could explain why no one recognizes him in Delphi. IMO.

From time to time I think back to a comment made very early on, March, 2017 when Mr Ives was still prosecutor:

“I think there’s an excellent chance that in these tips, somebody has named the right person,” said Ives of the more than 13,000 submissions that have come in to investigators. “When you ask me, ‘Is it possible some police officer has talked to him?’ I think it’s extremely likely that’s happened.

“I think that’s possible, yes.”
Prosecutor says cops likely have met Delphi killer or received crucial tip due to scope of probe

*****
Given a tip, LE can ask questions but killers are known liars. I think this is why LE has consistently pleaded for “somebody who knows this person” to come forward, because they’re looking for personal or private details directly implicating the perp.

 

[gregjrichards]

I think he did but many here just make fun of it. But I have my own personal reasons for saying this.

Please know that everyone here has the right to express their opinion about details of the case. Nobody should ever feel they have been made fun of for expressing an opinion. None of us know for sure anything about BG he may well have a dog. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I do not respect your point of view. Everybody’s point of view is equally valid and is much appreciated.

 

[PaulaDC]

I personally do not recall seeing this clip early on in the investigation. It holds some interesting comments.