Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #88

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My thoughts are always centered on BG’s motive...did he sit and wait or was this a crime of opportunity? I honestly go back and forth all the time. I just don’t understand the “why” of this and have been following this case from day 1!

Secondly, I wish I could consolidate my thoughts here but can’t get farther than the limited facts we have. My honest opinion is that I don’t think social media/the internet was involved and I’d like to look at every video camera in the whole town! I’m sure this has been looked at but I would be hard pressed to find there wasn’t footage of something suspicious coming or going ‍♀️

With all the coverage, video, audio and the sketch and to the best of our knowledge no one has come forward stating they saw this guy in town - at a gas station, store, fast food place or anywhere else. It's as if the trail is the only place this guy stopped.
 
The guy either needed to have ice in his veins or was counting on the girls to stay together (I am assuming he also had a gun and not a knife for example).

I think he will eventually be identified and arrested once they have enough evidence.

I think he must have pulled a gun on them to get them to cooperate, even if it didn’t end up being the cause of death.

Otherwise I would think that two young, healthy, athletic girls could have easily run from him. MOO
 
I think he must have pulled a gun on them to get them to cooperate, even if it didn’t end up being the cause of death.

Otherwise I would think that two young, healthy, athletic girls could have easily run from him. MOO

As noted by various videos, one in particularly including an interview with the landowner, back from the river in the area where the bodies were found, the terraine curves and slopes upward very steeply, almost a trap.

If I’m able to find the link I’ll repost it as it’s difficult to describe, but if they were being pursued by a shooter, I think he’d definately have the advantage. They’d have died by gunfire before they could’ve unrun him IMO.
 
Your interpretation is how I’ve noticed LE framing their request for tips from the very onset of this horrible crime - by consistently using the word “know”.

Not “this guy looks just like some photo on the internet but “I know this guy, I know his voice” etc. If Sheriff Leazenby thinks he has “known” the voice all along that’s be a huge coincidence I think.


Very interesting comment...never caught the use of the word "know"
 
I think he must have pulled a gun on them to get them to cooperate, even if it didn’t end up being the cause of death.

Otherwise I would think that two young, healthy, athletic girls could have easily run from him. MOO

Since LE refers to Libby as a hero, upthread there is speculation that BG was able to physically control Abby -- and Libby would not leave her friend.

Doesn't conflict with your theory, of course.


And the lights that are Abby & Libby continue to shine.

JMHO YMMV
 
As noted by various videos, one in particularly including an interview with the landowner, back from the river in the area where the bodies were found, the terraine curves and slopes upward very steeply, almost a trap.

If I’m able to find the link I’ll repost it as it’s difficult to describe, but if they were being pursued by a shooter, I think he’d definately have the advantage. They’d have died by gunfire before they could’ve unrun him IMO.
rbbm.
Delphi man shows FOX 59 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies
"I’m going to take you down here and show you everything on how they could have got here. You are going to be just as confused as I was as to how did these two little girls got here from the high bridge with all of this rough terrain without somebody making them come here," said Logan."

"Logan has lived on the property for 50 years and he believes it would have been a tough area for the girls to hike through.

"The high bridge is right across the creek here, and it runs all the way down across the creek and the land joins together. The spot where they join together is the last area where there were photographs of the girls.They would have had to come over through this territory…not an easy trip," said Logan."
Delphi property owner: "I can't comprehend it"
"Logan said that with the steep embankments and rough terrain on the back end of his property, it would be difficult to even make it to the location, let alone carry two bodies down and drop them off.

“For them to get from there to all the way here with that rough territory they had to walk, you couldn’t carry them in a million years or drag them or drop them off,” said Logan. “They had to walk.”
 
Of course that was back when everybody was accusing him, and his main point in that video was that he couldn't have done it from his property. It might be steep and rough at the back of his property, but it says nothing about whether there are easier access routes from other places.
 
Until more information is forthcoming on how the crime went down, it is certain two girls were murdered soon after Libby took a couple of pictures on their hike, sharing them on Instagram, before getting scared and filming the bridge guy wearing blue jeans and a blue jacket.

It’s so hard to fathom why one or both girls weren’t simply abducted and taken away. It does make me think the girls were a team, and wouldn’t run away when when the other was in danger, like Libby’s step-grandad has said.

Something went wrong, or BG probably would have been successful in his mission, which might not have started as a cold blooded murder of two barely teen aged girls, but a kidnapping. Purely hypothetical, but trying to put the facts we do know from MSM with other crimes like this.

What that mistake was could have been BG didn’t consider what could go wrong with his plan, like both running away, hearing yells from those looking for them when his plan wasn’t completed, or something else I haven’t thought about.

I do think mistakes will catch up with BG. *fingers crossed*

Thanks to all who keep hanging in here.

BBM

I agree and have wondered for some time now if the initial intention was abduction. A trail leads roughly from the area of the murder scene, to a corner of the cemetery that meets the Mears property. Could be he was trying to get them to walk to the trail, and then things didn't work out for BG.

That theory alone now brings up similarities to the L&E case out of Iowa.

While there hasn't been an official timeline released by LE, we all know it's extremely tight, and that there were people at the bridge ar around 3PM. My theory has been they were abducted between 2:20 and maybe 2:25 PM, give or take, probably deceased by 2:40. Which would makes the case for BG escaping via the cemetery, IMHO.

MOO
 
There are two different videos linked directly under the top photo that illustrate the terrain. RL the landowner has been declared not a suspect, in case anyone is tempted to go down that path.

Delphi property owner: "I can't comprehend it"

Note the treed terrain and deadwood/dry grass groundcover.

Thanks for this, it's the first time I've seen it. The videos perfectly illustrate how challenging the terrain is near the murder scene. On the other side of the high ground spot near where they are standing in the one video (where the camera pans around some and RL is explaining stuff to the reporter), is a ravine which runs between a Mears parcel and the parcel RL owns. High spot can be seen in the SS of the video I made into a thumbnail below.

Just look at the video, and we can see how difficult it is to even see the bridge from the surrounding area, during February/the cold months. The other video I've seen of RL by the murder scene in the days after the murders shows him and a reporter down close to the creek, so adjacent to the murder scene, not above it. From there the camera person pans across, and you can see the section of the bridge over the creek, and some of if through the tops of trees on the strip of land across the creek from RL's property.

Where A&L were murdered cannot be seen from the bridge, even during this time of year.

My hunch is BG murdered them, then walked a known trail on the Mears property which ends up at the corner of the newer part of the cemetery. The trail is a very short distance from the ravine between theirs and RL's property. Then I think he got into a vehicle and headed east on C.R. 300, that way he wouldn't pass the entrance to the trail area where A&L were dropped off.

How did BG know the bridge is there? Has he been there a few, or maybe even many times before?

You have to be in the gorge, right near the bridge, to see some of it it, or be on one of the private properties near the SE end of it, again right near it, to see it, and you're either near the top of the gorge, or down in it some.

Some other points from recent posts here intrigue me, and I agree with them and have wondered s few things about what happened before A&L got to the drop off/parking area. My hunch is BG was hunting for a victim that day, people saw him beforehand, but the only account I've read about is from the woman walking her dog
who turned around by the bridge, and encountered BG right in that area. Imagine if she'd been alone, with no dog, or even alone and had walked the bridge. Which makes me wonder if the walking the bridge part of all this is what he was waiting for, a female or in A&L's case two (more on this, below)

Imagine if someone else had been murdered that day, before A&L got to the bridge. We'd have a different case in some ways, and most likely no images or audio. Part of my theory is he was there a while, and was waiting for (in his mind) the perfect scenario to unfold for his plot. The woman with the dog said she passed A&L and didn't say anything to them about BG being further down the trail, I think they passed her by the slight bend, and BG wasn't far behind walking the same direction. MOO is he stopped by the bend, where he maybe could kind of see the drop of/parking area, and look the other way and see near the end of the NW approach to the bridge.

I believe this killer is into the thrill of seeing his crimes in the media, and the horror and pain it causes family and the public. He gets off on that, and his actual crimes do not have to have a sexual component to them. I think that's one more reason he gets away with them: No DNA, and he's been up to speed on DNA tech with regards to forensics, for some time. He might kill one person, but two gets him even more motivated to murder, a 'bonus' of sorts.

What other cases are similar to this one, which took place within maybe the last 10-15 years here in the Midwest? We know of at least one.

MOO

MOO
 

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The woman with the dog said she passed A&L and didn't say anything to them about BG being further down the trail, I think they passed her by the slight bend, and BG wasn't far behind walking the same direction. MOO is he stopped by the bend, where he maybe could kind of see the drop of/parking area, and look the other way and see near the end of the NW approach to the bridge.
Sorry, but do you have a link for that? I remember a woman walking and seeing a couple, and seeing a man, but that she didn't see any sign of the girls; I'm not positive, but I believe she may have gone on the bridge and taken some pictures too. I don't remember reading about the woman walking her dog, and I'd like to see what else I may have missed. TIA
 
Sorry, but do you have a link for that? I remember a woman walking and seeing a couple, and seeing a man, but that she didn't see any sign of the girls; I'm not positive, but I believe she may have gone on the bridge and taken some pictures too. I don't remember reading about the woman walking her dog, and I'd like to see what else I may have missed. TIA

Woman saw BG, I can't find the link saying she was walking her dog, but I remember seeing links here early on in the case:

ISP releases sketch of man accused of killing Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams
 
BBM

I agree and have wondered for some time now if the initial intention was abduction. A trail leads roughly from the area of the murder scene, to a corner of the cemetery that meets the Mears property. Could be he was trying to get them to walk to the trail, and then things didn't work out for BG.

That theory alone now brings up similarities to the L&E case out of Iowa.

While there hasn't been an official timeline released by LE, we all know it's extremely tight, and that there were people at the bridge ar around 3PM. My theory has been they were abducted between 2:20 and maybe 2:25 PM, give or take, probably deceased by 2:40. Which would makes the case for BG escaping via the cemetery, IMHO.

MOO

I have never thought about a scenario where BG may have really intended to kidnap them and it makes so much sense! It certainly explains the super short time between when he accosted them and when they were killed. Most times it seems crazy psychopath guys like to have time with their victims to enjoy their warped work, so it never made sense to me why they were dead so quickly....but your thoughts here could explain that. My theory on how things played out pretty much fall in line with yours, but this one idea about a botched kidnapping really makes it come together. Really nice!
 
I have never thought about a scenario where BG may have really intended to kidnap them and it makes so much sense! It certainly explains the super short time between when he accosted them and when they were killed. Most times it seems crazy psychopath guys like to have time with their victims to enjoy their warped work, so it never made sense to me why they were dead so quickly....but your thoughts here could explain that. My theory on how things played out pretty much fall in line with yours, but this one idea about a botched kidnapping really makes it come together. Really nice!

The more I think about it, the more it kind of fits.

Tight timeline could mean he intended abduction at first, to get them away from the the bridge and creek areas ASAP. But then he would need a vehicle suitable for an abduction, in this case of two girls, maybe a van of some sort or large SUV. At any rate, if indeed that was the first phase of his plot, they probably put up a fight at the murder scene, which put an end to his whole plan.

It's a stretch, really, but plausible. Pure speculation on my part, and speculation is one of the reasons why we're 88 threads deep into this case so I won't dwell on it too much.
 
Thanks for this, it's the first time I've seen it. The videos perfectly illustrate how challenging the terrain is near the murder scene. On the other side of the high ground spot near where they are standing in the one video (where the camera pans around some and RL is explaining stuff to the reporter), is a ravine which runs between a Mears parcel and the parcel RL owns. High spot can be seen in the SS of the video I made into a thumbnail below.

Just look at the video, and we can see how difficult it is to even see the bridge from the surrounding area, during February/the cold months. The other video I've seen of RL by the murder scene in the days after the murders shows him and a reporter down close to the creek, so adjacent to the murder scene, not above it. From there the camera person pans across, and you can see the section of the bridge over the creek, and some of if through the tops of trees on the strip of land across the creek from RL's property.

Where A&L were murdered cannot be seen from the bridge, even during this time of year.

My hunch is BG murdered them, then walked a known trail on the Mears property which ends up at the corner of the newer part of the cemetery. The trail is a very short distance from the ravine between theirs and RL's property. Then I think he got into a vehicle and headed east on C.R. 300, that way he wouldn't pass the entrance to the trail area where A&L were dropped off.

How did BG know the bridge is there? Has he been there a few, or maybe even many times before?

You have to be in the gorge, right near the bridge, to see some of it it, or be on one of the private properties near the SE end of it, again right near it, to see it, and you're either near the top of the gorge, or down in it some.

Some other points from recent posts here intrigue me, and I agree with them and have wondered s few things about what happened before A&L got to the drop off/parking area. My hunch is BG was hunting for a victim that day, people saw him beforehand, but the only account I've read about is from the woman walking her dog
who turned around by the bridge, and encountered BG right in that area. Imagine if she'd been alone, with no dog, or even alone and had walked the bridge. Which makes me wonder if the walking the bridge part of all this is what he was waiting for, a female or in A&L's case two (more on this, below)

Imagine if someone else had been murdered that day, before A&L got to the bridge. We'd have a different case in some ways, and most likely no images or audio. Part of my theory is he was there a while, and was waiting for (in his mind) the perfect scenario to unfold for his plot. The woman with the dog said she passed A&L and didn't say anything to them about BG being further down the trail, I think they passed her by the slight bend, and BG wasn't far behind walking the same direction. MOO is he stopped by the bend, where he maybe could kind of see the drop of/parking area, and look the other way and see near the end of the NW approach to the bridge.

I believe this killer is into the thrill of seeing his crimes in the media, and the horror and pain it causes family and the public. He gets off on that, and his actual crimes do not have to have a sexual component to them. I think that's one more reason he gets away with them: No DNA, and he's been up to speed on DNA tech with regards to forensics, for some time. He might kill one person, but two gets him even more motivated to murder, a 'bonus' of sorts.

What other cases are similar to this one, which took place within maybe the last 10-15 years here in the Midwest? We know of at least one.

MOO

MOO

(Marking)



(O/T, just came across this article, thought I’d bring it forward, we probably discussed it way upstream already):

Police solve 50-year-old murder of Harvard student using DNA, ancestry database )
 
(Marking)



(O/T, just came across this article, thought I’d bring it forward, we probably discussed it way upstream already):

Police solve 50-year-old murder of Harvard student using DNA, ancestry database )

This DNA technology is evolving even as we post. It's amazing how cases are being solved now.
I hope and pray that LE was able to retrieve some DNA from the girls and/or the crime scene.

I linked your link to our DNA thread.

DNA Solves Cold Cases/Parabon Nanolabs & GED/Match.
 
I agree that BG initially planning an abduction makes a lot of sense! Perhaps he tried some sort of ruse to get them to come with him willingly, but the girls were smart and wise to that kind of shenanigan, so he panicked and killed them since they could have described him (and unbeknownst to him were also filming!)

I often wonder how long BG was there that day and if he initially came to the trail with the intent of hunting for a victim or was just a monster of a person who was there for another reason and the feeling overcame him. In my opinion only, I do think he was trolling for a victim, and I wouldn't be surprised if he had been there awhile, waiting for just the right person (in this case, two people). Perhaps he had hoped for a girl by herself but had already been there a long time, so decided to risk it on two of them. All MOO.
 
The week before the girls’ Feb. 13 disappearance, the eighth-graders took a tour of the high school Arika said she and Abby "went to the criminal justice area" at the school because they "both had the same dream of doing something within forensics and police work."

When I read this again I wondered who else would have taken that tour of the high school? Was this tour for all 8th graders? If so, were there any chaperones?

From this 2017 article
Month after girls found dead, double murder haunts Indiana town

Just raising more questions.
ETA the following

Also what is the “criminal justice area”? Who would have been there to answer questions of the kids on tour?

I apologize if this was already discussed, it has been too long...
 
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