Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #100

[Deleted member 230385]

The only thing that makes me think it could be someone with a religious background, someone from within area (not necessarily still as an active member) is the reference to conscience and The Shack. When raised in a religious environment it's hard to shed everything you grew up with. Perhaps that was what Supt. Carter meant about having just a wee bit of conscience left. JMO

IMO Carter emphasized religion because the FBI has created a profile of the killer, and some specific detail about the case indicates the killer was religious. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

I definitely don’t think he came back, as he was lucky just to get out of there in the first place.

It would have been a tremendous risk, one that would be uncommon in a crime like this.

After the adrenaline wore off, he would have been as nervous then, as he likely was following the latest press conference.

Hopefully he’s still scared.

I would bet he is.

Something (analogies?) tells me he is smart academically, but emotionally, shallow. He might even suffer from alexithymia, when emotions are recognized only if they are strong (rage, depression, exuberant happiness). It has nothing to do with moral choices, of course.

But I surely hope that “fear” is a strong enough emotion to be felt by him.

 

[Jealoushe]

I have wondered if that is exactly what led to this "new direction." Someone who had previously been cleared isn't cleared anymore because their phone was pinging near there that day. I think it takes a long time to do that, especially during daytime hours. IIRC, in the Heather Elvis case, there was not a lot for officials to sort through (with regard to the cell phone pings from the tower near the crime) because it was a fairly isolated area in the middle of the night.

Exactly, it could easily take years for the subpoena and research. Then going through logs of the users who were in fact there. I’m sure they could contact everyone and get permission and I would think innocent people would have no problem giving the OK for them to review phone records after the fact.

 

[Boxer]

IMO Carter emphasized religion because the FBI has created a profile of the killer, and some specific detail about the case indicates the killer was religious. MOO.

True. I am sure the content of the PC was highly vetted, but I also think Carter wrote his own basic presentation.
MOO on a human level I think
he was be trying to just help frame the image of girls differently to move them on from being victims frozen in time.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

MOO since the interest in the car parked at CPS I have been thinking again about the oddness of their path heading toward the back of the cemetery or road, along with the speed of the crime.

MOO that he was forcing them to the back of the cemetery, planning to gag and bind them there, then retrieve his vehicle from CPS drive to the cemetery, transfer them to his vehicle. MOO he then could out drive on east on secondary roads or west back to i25.
MOO girls got out of his control on the way so he killed them.

Yes, maybe it was a kidnapping that went awry. MOO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

ETA...

note that in the next page or two you will be seeing 1275 bicycle Bridge Road mentioned.

That is incorrect and it was corrected in a couple of pages moving forward. There was a misinterpretation of the emergency 911 saying between 421 and 1275 West.

For those who come to the thread later on, disregard the 1275 address as that is actually a cross street to bicycle road mentioned in quite a few posts.

Roadway closed between US 421 and 1275 W on Bicycle Bridge Rd for an investigation. Avoid the area.
Roadway closed between US 421 and 1275 W on Bicycle Bridge Rd for an investigation. Avoid the area.

Instructions:
Avoid the area for an active investigation.
Thursday May 9th, 2019 :: 08:20 a.m. EDT

Thanks for reposting that as I missed it the first time that that is from today! And yes, it does incorporate the area of the previous search warrant that was done within days of the murders.

 

[Spy Versus Spy]

Interesting. Time will tell.

Maybe it's another fiendishly clever provocation, of a known perp, by LE.?
Using all available resources to stage a high profile action within a radius that they know will rattle the perp.

Or maybe not.

Moo.

 

[Suglo]

Reference to THE SHACK could also be a reflection of Carter's beliefs instead of a reflection on BG's.

The movie was on television the night before the press conference. He said he watched it. He also seems to be very spiritual. It was also Easter. I really think he just injected his own personal beliefs when he brought up the shack reference.

 

[Boxer]

<modsnip: removed info from social media>

Wait, what red car?!

IIRC in the first media reports the A&L crime, there was a red car sighting somewhere by the trail that day by a witness. It was one of the DN coincidences - his wife owned a red car that they all lived in. That vehicle may have been investigated and closed out as I haven't heard anything about it since.

 

[pepper 34]

It's just 0.10 of a mile from the south end of the bridge to where their bodies were found.

Replying to my own comment.

Since people were discussing the time elements involved and I added my comment about distance... I should have also added that it was a very difficult tenth of a mile. Due to the fact that we really don't know all the many possible scenarios involved, I think it's impossible to know how much time it took to travel that distance. From watching videos of people making a "down the hill" trip from the end of bridge to the road under the bridge looks like it could take over 5 minutes all by itself though.

That's just the "walking" down hill and not taking into account any unknowable actions such as freezing in terror/shock, possible falls or sliding... twisting an ankle or knee...
...maybe resistance on the part of the girls due to disbelief/denial of circumstances (I doubt they resisted at this point though.)

Also, once out of sight below the bridge, BG could have had them stop to be bound or "attached" together in some way... who knows what other actions he may have taken to ensure things went the way he wanted them to? At any rate, "the trip distance" can hardly be compared to walking a tenth of a mile under anything near normal circumstances. jmo.

 

[susiQ]

I have wondered if that is exactly what led to this "new direction." Someone who had previously been cleared isn't cleared anymore because their phone was pinging near there that day. I think it takes a long time to do that, especially during daytime hours. IIRC, in the Heather Elvis case, there was not a lot for officials to sort through (with regard to the cell phone pings from the tower near the crime) because it was a fairly isolated area in the middle of the night.

Possibly, but if he had any brains at all, he would have left it at home? Another thing. If for instance someone is constantly using their phone and then all of the sudden they turn it off for let's say between 12 noon and 5 p.m.? LE look for things out of the "norm" as well. Perhaps he turned it off and left it in his vehicle and turned it on shortly after the time in question. Circumstantial evidence yes, but it is one nail in the "coffin", so-to-speak.

 

[mtnlites]

The movie was on television the night before the press conference. He said he watched it. He also seems to be very spiritual. It was also Easter. I really think he just injected his own personal beliefs when he brought up the shack reference.

That's what I think as well. The people around here where I live went nuts over the movie. Churches were hiring buses to take their congregation to the cinema to watch it. I've heard it referenced in other, non-murder contexts from people who seemed to be "touched" by it. I think Carter is emotionally invested in this case at this point. It makes sense to me that he'd slip in a few things about how he, as a person, feels about the case. I know plenty of LE dudes who take their spirituality seriously. Indeed, their faith is sometimes what gets them through the toughest cases. It's not unusual.

 

[IQuestion]

MOO early on when the sheriff released the audio he said BG was starting to get frustrated with the girls - so there is more audio....
BOXER... Don't know whether to say "Oh no!" or "Oh yeah!" Could this be further confirmation of others in the area saying they heard (or saw?) "a couple fighting??"
Or, the person who said they heard a couple fighting was afraid they he was over heard and was trying to deflect attention away from himself. Thinking along the lines..."I heard other people arguing and it had nothing to do with me." Personally, I would have stayed close by just to make sure the individuals were okay. (I always listen... what self-respecting sleuth doesn't?)

 

[MDATCA]

The one with the puppy hanging it's head with floppy ears, out the front window.......Just Joking !!!!!....moo

I think it is one that is in a video someone visiting the area saw on May 1 2017. So the puppy may now look more like a dog. But he may appear younger than he is.

 

[mekeritrig]

Thanks for reposting that as I missed it the first time that that is from today! And yes, it does incorporate the area of the previous search warrant that was done within days of the murders.

Here's a map for you. You can see where the search warrant was done in the bottom left.

 

[mtnlites]

You know how once something gets on your radar you suddenly start seeing it everywhere? We talked about the word "guys" and how many YouTubers start their videos with "hey guys." My daughter is really into one guy, Jaysomethingorother, and when it was on last night I swear the dude talked like this: "Hey guys! You won't believe what happened to me, guys, last night. Seriously guys, it's unreal! I was eating this sandwich, guys, and something felt really strange about it. Guys, I didn't know what was going on until I looked down and realized that I'd forgotten to take the wrapper off the cheese slices, guys!*"

Every other word, I swear. I've never thought about the word or heard it as much as I am right now.

* Not really his story, but it was something just as weird and inane.

 

[ocgrad]

Many of you have great points about the quick abduction and kill.

But, I still feel its possible he took them at gunpoint from the bridge, and walked them to an outbuilding or barn nearby. I have read that the property south of the bridge the family was out of town for many weeks. A local would have knowledge of this info.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact they are killed at 3pm near a popular walking/hiking trail and was fairly busy with people walking on a nice Feb day.

Surely someone would hear a struggle or screaming. I guess he could have had them tied up and gagged. But I don't think this scenario can be tossed out.

No screams heard, nothing. The family was searching the area from 4pm on until prob 2am. LE searched from 5:30 to 10 or 11 pm. No bodies discovered and they were eventually found not far from Abby's last know location at 2:07 on the bridge.

I think its possible they were not found on the 13th because they were not there. The bodies were left there early in the morning on the 14th.

He had most of the night with them.

I feel the same! It seems impossible that he took them and committed murder so close to a popular trail where we know people were hanging out.
The only thing is that we never saw any of the old hunting cabins, sheds or barns treated as a crime scene with the exception of Logan's and that was weeks later. There was no press back there while the crime scene investigation was going so it is possible the search lead to a cabin we are unaware of. But we never saw anything taped off either except the location their bodies were discovered and the end of the trail leading to the nearby home. Since they were on Logan's property for a couple of days combing through the location their bodies were found it seems normal they would also have searched his buildings but maybe he blocked them. Is it possible they had to get a SW to do so and that it took some time to get probable cause? When they did search those buildings it was thorough, like a crime scene. They moved and restacked all his hay! His family said the place was more organized and clean after they left than before. What were they looking for? They said he was never a suspect. If you haven't followed long there were a couple of police calls to his place where he had found someone in his barn in the weeks or months prior.
I also never lose the thought that at the end of the bridge is a road. The easiest, quickest and most secure abduction is in a vehicle. Much less risky than marching them down through the leaves and brush and across a creek. Requires at least 2 people but I have never thought he did this alone anyway.
I know I am in the minority here, so be it. But I remain open to other scenarios as well!

 

[susiQ]

I think it is one that is in a video someone visiting the area saw on May 1 2017. So the puppy may now look more like a dog. But he may appear younger than he is.

You forgot the sarcasm font

 

[CoolJ]

That's not true. Search warrant was near 11000 Bridge bicycle rd. The area people are going crazy about that someone pulled from a scanner this morning (which has no evidence its related to the delphi murder investigation) is near 1275 bridge bicycle rd. Not even close.

The two locations are not the same. Just because something going on that's mentioned on a police scanner happens to be on the same road (not even close to the same ADDRESS) as some search warrants years ago doesn't mean its in any way connected to this case.

From what i am seeing, 11000 Bridge bicycle rd. is smack dab in the middle of the closed off portion of the road for an investigation.

 

[Sillybilly]

Where is the MSM or LE link to the road closure on Bicycle Bridge Road this morning?

If there isn't one, this entire conversation will be removed.