Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #100

[sunshineray]

To be honest, many of us in the child-loss community would consider our kids' deaths to be pretty horrific. My son wasn't murdered but "nightmarish circumstances" is an accurate description of the events surrounding his death. Things don't get much worse than having to bury your child. The details of their COD don't have to be particularly unique or grotesque for their family to call them "horrific." Abby and Libby were murdered, we know that much. That's the nightmare right there.

mtnlites, I'm sorrier than I can express for your loss. I meant not to downplay anyone else's tragedy of losing their beautiful child, their heart. You are indeed right, any loss of a child is horrific no matter the circumstances. If what I said caused you additional pain in anyway, please forgive me.

 

[bodester413]

I'm looking at a google street view of the social service building. It wouldn't be hard at all to just drive through the grass, small ditch and onto the Hoosier Heartland Hwy. I always thought he would have had to leave via W300N.

You see here on this screen shot where the social service building once was, on right where there is fresh dirt. Easy exit to the Hwy. Maybe this is the reason he picked this parking area.
View attachment 183368

That's what I was wondering about too. Maybe the witness saw someone get in their vehicle and drive across the medians and that's what they thought should be reported. On a regular day it would be no big deal, but after the murders happened you could look at it a different way.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

What’s going on, almost everytime I click on the link in a post to go back to the original post , I get an “error I’m not allowed” ( Are these posts that have been deleted, or is there a glitch in the systems? Any input on this issue? TIA

Had that happen yesterday myself. Dunno.

 

[Blueberry2720]

I think he has been suspected. I do see one person who IMO matches the new sketch. I am trying to keep an open mind but it is very difficult for me to find any reason to rule him out.

I think there are many here who suspect the same person.

 

[Sneaker33]

I for one am extremely grateful that I have never had to be in the situation where I was trying to search for one of my children in a situation like that

I can't imagine the panic and not knowing where to look and considering all the possibilities of where they may have gone

Then to have the worse possible outcome

I truly pray that none of us ever has to experience what those families have had to deal with

JMO

I did have a situation where I had to search the woods at night but thankfully there was a positive outcome in the morning. I felt like I had no choice but to keep it together although I broke down periodically. I knew the woods as they backed up to my home. Days later when I was telling a friend I could not stop crying. Even now 2 1/2 years later I remember events if the night like snapshots in my head. Another positive was I immediately had a recent photo that had been taken at beach to give to officers.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

The idea that certain killers attend press conferences, participate in searches, visit gravesites, and insert themselves into criminal investigations, is documented behavior.

...he is still there, walking among them.

He is their neighbor, coworker, acquaintance, or family member.

It’ll make the community hyper aware of suspicious behavior, and might lead to the identification of a suspect.

OT (but actually very related to the A&L case with this thread), but BC (Urbana, IL case of June, 2017; here on WS, but not sure how to link to it) *did* indeed show up at a vigil(?) for the victim. He shows up in pix mixed right in with the crowd.

MOO, but still think that BG showed up to "help" w/the search the night that A&L were missing. Doing a very "community" thing like helping out with something like that...fits the profile of a people-person type individual, seen as helping (great cover so no one suspects anything other than "what a helpful, thoughtful person"); scary. MOO

 

[carbuff]

I did have a situation where I had to search the woods at night but thankfully there was a positive outcome in the morning. I felt like I had no choice but to keep it together although I broke down periodically. I knew the woods as they backed up to my home. Days later when I was telling a friend I could not stop crying. Even now 2 1/2 years later I remember events if the night like snapshots in my head. Another positive was I immediately had a recent photo that had been taken at beach to give to officers.

We lost our teenager on a hike once. We were able to get back together within about thirty minutes but it was the most terrifying thirty minutes of my life. I had to wait where the trail branched in case kid made it back down that way while Mr. Carbuff, who's a fast strong hiker, went ahead shouting and looking. It was all I could do not to panic and to explain the situation to some other hikers who came along and helped us.

Turned out young Carbuff had stepped a few feet off the trail to take a picture and got turned around. Fortunately had the sense to just sit and wait until he heard people shouting for him.

This was in late fall; it was a fairly open hillside the trees weren't completely bare, but close. Sound didn't carry more than about fifteen feet. Teenager was wearing a bright turquoise t-shirt. He was only about twenty feet off the trail and not covered in branches or anything, but none of us saw him until he waved and shouted back.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

The idea that certain killers attend press conferences, participate in searches, visit gravesites, and insert themselves into criminal investigations, is documented behavior.

That being said, anecdotally atleast, it doesn’t seem to happen in most cases.

It happens enough that law enforcement is on guard for it, but there’s no way of knowing if it happened here.

I think it was said for effect, in an effort to wake the community up to the belief that he is still there, walking among them.

He is their neighbor, coworker, acquaintance, or family member.

It’ll make the community hyper aware of suspicious behavior, and might lead to the identification of a suspect.

I'm thinking now, if he perhaps attended the funerals of the girls and if LE took video/pictures ...?

 

[carbuff]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed >

The mods do such a fantastic job of keeping us cleaned up and organized.

 

[Blueberry2720]

I'm thinking now, if he perhaps attended the funerals of the girls and if LE took video/pictures ...?

I am pretty sure LE had video covering every corner of every room, building, and venue where search meetings, viewings, Abby's funeral, (Libby's was private), PC's, vigils, etc. were held. They also have likely viewed them over and over again.

I have my POI, and I've searched numerous news coverage videos, and they are just a snippet of what I bet LE has. And, my POI is right there "hiding in plain sight" in one of the videos I viewed. I would not be at all surprised if he attended other events as well.

ETA: Libby's funeral info

 

[Deleted member 102539]

We’ve discussed it, but there’s no consensus.

They felt it was better to not release a sketch, than release the one they already had.

So five months with nothing, and a sketch is finally released.

Now it’s been discounted, and they’ve decided to release the one they had early on.

Why? That’s anyone’s guess.

Were they mislead?

Did they get new information that indicated that BG is this particular man and not the man in the first sketch they released?

They aren’t saying, and all we can do is guess.

If only the pics would have shown a perp at the same age range!

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think there are many here who suspect the same person.

I have been a member of WS for over nine years now. There have been threads where I was 100%, and I do mean 100% sure of who the Perp was. It was based on a lot of data, research. And as it turned out, I was 100% wrong. I have been stunned more than once. I’ve learned that LE withholds a lot to insure a strong case for the DA, and conviction. As such, we often don’t have critical data to complete our assessments.

And yeah, I’ve been spookily accurate a few times too. I believe that comes from above.

But the point being, I have learned to keep an open mind, which is often hard to do when it’s a case like this.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[ab01]

I think there are many here who suspect the same person.

I suspect anybody and everybody at this point

 

[janewall]

Indeed.

(I actually added this to my ETA, that perhaps they recognize it but aren’t calling it in for whatever reason...)

Your post brings to mind though (hi mtnlites btw ) how I felt and viewed people around me when Jessica’s killer was not apprehended. I actually had the perspective that it cooooould be anyone, including one of my coworkers and even friends unfortunately. Meaning that we knew he was local according to LE and what was so scary about it was really understanding that we didn’t really know what anyone is capable of. Hard to explain and I hope this makes sense, what I’m trying to say is that I encountered the opposite effect of suspecting people rather than discounting them. “Everyone was a suspect” in my eyes and that was absolutely terrifying.

I strongly suspect my reaction would be similar, especially if LE indicated the perp was within a relatively small community I was part of. I know I have trust issues to begin with, and having not once but several times witnessed an individual with an 'unassailable reputation' among the general public being guilty of heinous stuff, I tend to "trust but verify ... and keep verifying, on the regular" even with those I like and respect. I don't want to be cynical, but I don't want to be a dupe either - much less a victimized dupe.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I absolutely agree.

They mobilized the community right away, and even the media was there very early on.

Anyone who is surprised that the girls weren’t found that night, probably hasn’t viewed any of that news footage.

A whole damn marching band could have been missing, and the searchers would have likely missed them.

In addition, they were looking for living people at that point, not dead ones lying on the ground.

I will never forget the shock of mine, when the search was called off by LE on a cold February night. I found that irresponsible.

 

[Blueberry2720]

. . . But the point being, I have learned to keep an open mind, which is often hard to do when it’s a case like this . . .

I suspect anybody and everybody at this point

Oh, I totally agree and respect that. I keep an open mind - I am nowhere near Indiana, nor do I know a soul out there, but there is still one person who rises to the top of my list because he ticks so many of my boxes. Someone else could pop up tomorrow that ticks even more boxes. Who knows.
JMO

 

[ab01]

If only the pics would have shown a perp at the same age range!

Actually I think some may see it as discouraging but I choose to see it as encouraging

It points in a rather totally different direction and am confident its the correct one, as I believe LE is as well

I just can't see why they would make such a drastic change if they wern't confident

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Interestingly, early on LE never said DNA is key - they said technology is key. And Riley may have gotten it wrong but I’ve noticed a few times where reference to the cellphones is plural.

Feb 17, 2017
ISP on Delphi murders: "Everyone is a suspect"
Delphi, Indiana: State police is technology is key in the search for the Delphi killer
“We’re checking their cell phones, we’re checking their social media places Twitter, Facebook and that to see if there’s some type of connection there,” said Sgt. Riley. “We’re looking at every possible option.”....”

 

[MassGuy]

I will never forget the shock of mine, when the search was called off by LE on a cold February night. I found that irresponsible.

It turns out it didn’t matter.

Law enforcement called off the formal search, because the last thing they wanted was to lose more people in the woods.

They thought they were searching for missing girls, and the potential was there that they would have found their way out, or had already done so.

They had to take the safety of the public into account.

This is standard practice.

 

[MistyWaters]

Oh, I totally agree and respect that. I keep an open mind - I am nowhere near Indiana, nor do I know a soul out there, but there is still one person who rises to the top of my list because he ticks so many of my boxes. Someone else could pop up tomorrow that ticks even more boxes. Who knows.
JMO

Then call your tip in because I think you know it can’t be discussed here.