Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #100

[acutename]

Agree. And if it was NOT sexual in nature, then it had to be revenge/to silence them. Why would that be? I think it's extremely rare to kill young teens for any reason other than sexual gratification. But rage/anger/revenge could be a motive I suppose.

maybe he hated them because he found them attractive, but also knew that was "inappropriate," OR maybe he hated them because he thought he should be attracted to them and he was not, OR maybe he hated them because he always sort of wanted to be a female and he thinks girls have an easy life or he believed that his parents liked his sister better. (amateur psychoanalyzing) Have any of the known serial killers ever explained what was driving them? When I have read interviews, I think it has sounded as if they just had a compulsion, but no rationale.

 

[mtnlites]

Sure anythings possible you have your Opinion, I have mine it's all good!

and just so you know i was and still am (somewhat be 64 this year) a avid hunter and fisherman.
right next door in ohio so the terrain is similar.

I've spent a lot of time in that park and on the bridge and I have family who helped in the initial search on the night of the 13th. I trust their judgment as far as what happened that night and why LE and the searchers made the decisions they did.

 

[neesaki]

I guess I’m missing something here.

Is this someone known to the case in msm? Sorry if I’m having a brainfart.

I realize I’m behind, hell , I stay behind, lol. But what is with all these obscure postings... No, not picking on you, margarita! It’s been going on.... so I’m like, what? What the hey are they talking about? I mean, who can stay on here 24/7 ? I can’t , so please help me out here guys? TIA

 

[ab01]

They believe the car was there between 12 and 5pm on the 13th.

Any vehicles spotted on the 14th are almost certainly unrelated.

There were searchers, police officers, members of the public, and God knows who else there.

Yah I think one needs to keep in mind on all those helicopter videos(all from 2/14)

That there are likely many unmarked LE vehicles

Many County and city workers and trucks helping set up road closure barricades and various other tasks

additional various other resource vehicles

In addition to likely civilian vehicles who were just trying to help

I highly doubt we are going to point out anything that LE hasn't already verified

JMO

 

[Jdart14]

To be honest, many of us in the child-loss community would consider our kids' deaths to be pretty horrific. My son wasn't murdered but "nightmarish circumstances" is an accurate description of the events surrounding his death. Things don't get much worse than having to bury your child. The details of their COD don't have to be particularly unique or grotesque for their family to call them "horrific." Abby and Libby were murdered, we know that much. That's the nightmare right there.

So sorry for your loss. I cannot fathom losing my son. My heart and prayers go out to you.

 

[acutename]

Many of you have great points about the quick abduction and kill.

But, I still feel its possible he took them at gunpoint from the bridge, and walked them to an outbuilding or barn nearby. I have read that the property south of the bridge the family was out of town for many weeks. A local would have knowledge of this info.

I just can't wrap my head around the fact they are killed at 3pm near a popular walking/hiking trail and was fairly busy with people walking on a nice Feb day.

Surely someone would hear a struggle or screaming. I guess he could have had them tied up and gagged. But I don't think this scenario can be tossed out.

No screams heard, nothing. The family was searching the area from 4pm on until prob 2am. LE searched from 5:30 to 10 or 11 pm. No bodies discovered and they were eventually found not far from Abby's last know location at 2:07 on the bridge.

I think its possible they were not found on the 13th because they were not there. The bodies were left there early in the morning on the 14th.

He had most of the night with them.

LE would know where the search was conducted on the 13th....so they would know if what you suggest is correct.

 

[Sneaker33]

How do we know people haven’t contacted LE and identified him?

I think he has been suspected. I do see one person who IMO matches the new sketch. I am trying to keep an open mind but it is very difficult for me to find any reason to rule him out.

 

[MassGuy]

maybe he hated them because he found them attractive, but also knew that was "inappropriate," OR maybe he hated them because he thought he should be attracted to them and he was not, OR maybe he hated them because he always sort of wanted to be a female and he thinks girls have an easy life or he believed that his parents liked his sister better. (amateur psychoanalyzing) Have any of the known serial killers ever explained what was driving them? When I have read interviews, I think it has sounded as if they just had a compulsion, but no rationale.

My personal opinion is that he hates women, and took his rage out on the girls.

There’s likely a reason for this; that he blames them for his own shortcomings.

By attacking those girls, he was getting back at the women who rejected him, or wronged him in some way.

Some serial killers are surprisingly introspective, and are able to explain their rationale to a degree.

Kemper and Dahmer are good examples of this.

 

[MistyWaters]

I've spent a lot of time in that park and on the bridge and I have family who helped in the initial search on the night of the 13th. I trust their judgment as far as what happened that night and why LE and the searchers made the decisions they did.

It saddens me that the searchers have received criticism, as if the moment a couple of teenagers go missing a dead body search ought to take place. That’s just not reality. I thought it was quite a remarkable response that the call to the police department was taken very seriously and got attention that same evening and how officials and local volunteers all came together in an effort to locate the girls.

 

[Cutiekitty]

The first sketch was released 5 months after the crime. I’m sure this was discussed previously. Could anyone point me to where that might be? I have thoughts on that, but don’t want to bring them up if it’s already been thoroughly gone over.

 

[MassGuy]

It saddens me how the searchers have received such criticism, as if the moment a couple of teenagers go missing a dead body search ought to take place. That’s just not reality. I thought it was quite a remarkable response that the call to the police department was taken very seriously and got attention that same evening and how officials and local volunteers all came together in an effort to locate the girls.

I absolutely agree.

They mobilized the community right away, and even the media was there very early on.

Anyone who is surprised that the girls weren’t found that night, probably hasn’t viewed any of that news footage.

A whole damn marching band could have been missing, and the searchers would have likely missed them.

In addition, they were looking for living people at that point, not dead ones lying on the ground.

 

[MassGuy]

The first sketch was released 5 months after the crime. I’m sure this was discussed previously. Could anyone point me to where that might be? I have thoughts on that, but don’t want to bring them up if it’s already been thoroughly gone over.

We’ve discussed it, but there’s no consensus.

They felt it was better to not release a sketch, than release the one they already had.

So five months with nothing, and a sketch is finally released.

Now it’s been discounted, and they’ve decided to release the one they had early on.

Why? That’s anyone’s guess.

Were they mislead?

Did they get new information that indicated that BG is this particular man and not the man in the first sketch they released?

They aren’t saying, and all we can do is guess.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

The owner reporting someone in his barn that's significant if someone was scouting it prior. I wish he had cameras on his barn.

MOO...still think that the PC comment about a/the shack (include sheds/barns/cabins here, too) *was* significant (even beyond any major holiday like it being Easter weekend). JMOO.

 

[Cutiekitty]

We’ve discussed it, but there’s no consensus.

They felt it was better to not release a sketch, than release the one they already had.

So five months with nothing, and a sketch is finally released.

Now it’s been discounted, and they’ve decided to release the one they had early on.

Why? That’s anyone’s guess.

Were they mislead?

Did they get new information that indicated that BG is this particular man and not the man in the first sketch they released?

They aren’t saying, and all we can do is guess.

I’m sure they got witness descriptions immediately after the crime from whoever was still there, but I’m wondering if they got them all right then and there. There was a female taking pics and I thought I read that she came in later to give her description. The 2:07 pic was put out in the media right away. Just wondering if seeing the pic might have heavily influenced her witness description.

 

[neesaki]

I missed this - where is this information from?

What’s going on, almost everytime I click on the link in a post to go back to the original post , I get an “error I’m not allowed” ( Are these posts that have been deleted, or is there a glitch in the systems? Any input on this issue? TIA

 

[K.jill]

Carter’s stating that the killer may be in the room at the pc has kind of haunted me. I think some of what he said that day, like the shack comment could be things he said from his heart and were not added by the professionals who went over what he was to say and not say at that Pc.
Stating they believe the killer to be or have been local and that he might be in the room seem like comments added by a profiler/speech writer to get a reaction.

Imo it would be very brazen for the killer to go to any of the pc’s. That would require crazy blind nerve.
Of course there are certain people who would be expected to be there as part of their job: camera men, le, reporter...
So, it is possible that the killer had a very good reason to be there that day and it might have seemed odd if he did not go.

Btw,I do not suspect a cameraman Or reporter or a law-enforcement officer.
Just thinking and typing. Wondering about the chances of bg attending.

 

[acutename]

I'm looking at a google street view of the social service building. It wouldn't be hard at all to just drive through the grass, small ditch and onto the Hoosier Heartland Hwy. I always thought he would have had to leave via W300N.

You see here on this screen shot where the social service building once was, on right where there is fresh dirt. Easy exit to the Hwy. Maybe this is the reason he picked this parking area.
View attachment 183368

could have been muddy in Feb... would have left tracks... unless lots of vehicles did that

 

[K.jill]

What’s going on, almost everytime I click on the link in a post to go back to the original post , I get an “error I’m not allowed” ( Are these posts that have been deleted, or is there a glitch in the systems? Any input on this issue? TIA

Imo it was a poster, someone new and trying to stir up trouble or get kicked off ws.
The post was something you already know about but we’re not allowed to discuss it, scanner. And, the poster I added a little something that is not a fact. So I’m sure it was deleted.

 

[MassGuy]

Carter’s stating that the killer may be in the room at the pc has kind of haunted me. I think some of what he said that day, like the shack comment could be things he said from his heart and were not added by the professionals who went over what he was to say and not say at that Pc.
Stating they believe the killer to be or have been local and that he might be in the room seem like comments added by a profiler/speech writer to get a reaction.

Imo it would be very brazen for the killer to go to any of the pc’s. That would require crazy blind nerve.
Of course there are certain people who would be expected to be there as part of their job: camera men, le, reporter...
So, it is possible that the killer had a very good reason to be there that day and it might have seemed odd if he did not go.

Btw,I do not suspect a cameraman Or reporter or a law-enforcement officer.
Just thinking and typing. Wondering about the chances of bg attending.

The idea that certain killers attend press conferences, participate in searches, visit gravesites, and insert themselves into criminal investigations, is documented behavior.

That being said, anecdotally atleast, it doesn’t seem to happen in most cases.

It happens enough that law enforcement is on guard for it, but there’s no way of knowing if it happened here.

I think it was said for effect, in an effort to wake the community up to the belief that he is still there, walking among them.

He is their neighbor, coworker, acquaintance, or family member.

It’ll make the community hyper aware of suspicious behavior, and might lead to the identification of a suspect.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I'm just going back over the video filmed by the news crew on the 14th as the press conference was asking about 'abandoned vehicle'. Right at the beginning of the video, there is a white pickup truck parked in the centre of the two highways up on the dirt turnout. Easy access back onto the highway. And, easy access to the trail & bridge.

At 3 minutes 40 seconds in, there is a view of a silver (car, I think) sitting next to the building that has now been torn down. I'm unsure what vehicle the police were interested in, but they are the only two that seem out of place to me. IMO.

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The vehicle LE is interested in was parked beside the abandoned CPS building between noon and 5pm on Feb 13th....not the 14th. They had the date wrong on the info at the press conference but corrected it shortly afterward.