Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #100

[Charlot123]

I have a very similar issue with mine. Last fall I had all my bottom teeth removed and both top and bottom jaws broken and reset to correct it. The only time my speech was impaired was during the post-op recovery when my jaws were wired together. Growing up, when the problem was much worse, I didn't have any trouble speaking at all. No noticeable list or anything. It mostly just affected the my eating habits. My jaw was constantly locking into place, or dislocating, and the older I got the worse that problem became. That doesn't mean that BG wouldn't have a problem, though. Sometimes it affects people differently.

Very differently. The most extreme case was Carlos II, king of Spain, of course. However, part of the question depends on the reason for the bite.

In my mind, open bite might affect speech more than progenia. But sometimes larger lower jaw might be associated with acromegaly, and then the tongue might be enlarged, and this makes speech unclear.

On the other hand, Jay Leno has prominent lower jaw. I don’t remember how he speaks, but judging by his career, should be distinct?

 

[ilovechili]

Oh man. I just realized BTW. There WAS a compass on the map! I am truly an idiot.

Thank you everyone who tried to get it through my thick head.

Hangs head in shame.....

Lol. The last thread ended before I could reply about enhanced video/pics/software. Not sure that it is necessary anyhow and I was going to reply here in this thread but I thought I would let you deal with your maps and directional challenges first (lol). I sure hope you know that is meant in humor

I stayed totally out of the maps and north/south, etc. conversations.

Anyhow... There is always tomorrow.... Well, hopefully--once I said that I immediately thought of all of the victims we see here who did not get a tomorrow.

I hope they find this creep and soon. And all other creeps who think they have any such right to take someone else's life and especially that of a child.

 

[castilloisno1]

earlier tonight, we were talking about Derrick and the FSG...here is a great video taken awhile ago of Derrick's path that day

 

[janewall]

For those who were confused by maps not oriented north, not least including myself and @gitana1 , I rotated the map @ocgrad marked up in the last thread (post #1138), opened Google Maps, did side-by-sides until I found the precise area ocgrad had worked with, and wound up with this. Note: the coordinates shown near the site where Abby and Libby were found are NOT official, just an artifact of my trying to pinpoint the relevant area of the creek bank.

I hope this is allowed! If not, would a mod please remove. And I hope the file displays properly and people can zoom in close enough even on phones. The notations in red are mine; all others are Google Maps.

ETA: I see @ZoriahNZ had a similar idea a few hours before me, in the last thread page 60. I'll leave this here, as the scale and points of focus are a bit different.

 

[cjack410]

CASE MANAGEMENT for Missing Children Homicide Investigation May 2006 Rob McKenna Attorney General of Washington & U.S. Department of Justice Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention

Commonly, the killers are at the initial victim-killer contact site for a legitimate reason. They either live in the area or were engaging in some normal activity. Most of the victims of child abduction murder are victims of opportunity. Seldom does the killer choose his victim because of some physical characteristic of the victim. The primary motivation for the child abduction killer is sexual assault.

A unique pattern of distance relationships exists in child abduction murders. Often, the initial contact site is located very close to the victim’s last known location. Conversely, the distance between the Initial Contact Site and the Murder Site increases to distances greater than one-fourth mile. The distance from the Murder Site to the Body Recovery Site again decreases to less than 199 feet in the vast majority of cases.

It was discovered that once the murder investigation has begun, the name of the killer is likely to be in the investigative file within the first week. This provides an opportunity for investigators who may have run out of viable leads to regroup and review everyone whose name has been uncovered during the investigation. Similarly, it is not uncommon for the police to have actual contact with the killer before he becomes a primary suspect, for example, during the initial neighborhood canvass

 

[pepper 34]

There is something that I can not fathom in this whole situation. It seems that many people assume it is sexual in nature. Supposedly.

But if that is the case, one doesn’t just kill and run. He wants some time with them. For this, the killer left surprisingly little time. And in general, abduction of two teenage girls in broad daylight leaves him zero time. Why not wait till the evening, a single person on the bridge? Makes no sense.

Unless he planned to return back? But he must have known that kids would be searched for.

One theory: What if BG had an accomplice waiting in the cemetery with a vehicle. An accomplice too "chicken" (or recognizable) to be in on the abduction but "brave" enough to provide a place to bring the girls. They may have planned to have the girls "disappear" after they were finished with them. Where the bodies were found (which is behind the cemetery) might be where the girls somehow made a break for it but were caught and killed quickly because they may have been making too much noise shouting for help. The murder site is very large... it does seem that it's that large because the girls broke away or fought back and may have run in different directions, purposely to try and confuse BG.

An alternative theory: I've read about how the FBI categorizes sexual (and other types) of crimes and how they study the people who commit such crimes. It seems, for some sexually motivated killers, the use of a knife... the action of using the knife in killing takes the place of a violent rape. Cutting off the victim's airway can achieve the same pleasurable result for the ... excuse me, please... the killer... of little girls. Both methods bring the killer pleasure and feelings of great power when ordinarily he feels powerless in his every day life. These are considered sexual crimes even if rape is not involved... and even if the victim remains fully clothed throughout.

 

[peel]

it often seems that if a crime is committed, sexual attack is the coup de etat (sp?) ....the assault or crime excites the attacker .....there is some connection between violence and power and sex as a weapon......but what do I know....I don't understand men.....

this Delphi killer though.....he didn't have much time to do anything unless he came back at night before the angels were found.

 

[n_6CC]

Wow! Impressive response!
If this miscreant did go to an orthodontist, they’d remember him no doubt, or the chin/bite.

I truly believe this should be pursued. As to the accuracy of the sketch, well...it’s what we’ve got to work with, and I’d say we are all coming up with some potentially viable suggestions. : )

Amateur opinion and speculation

I have been following your thoughts on this “jaw/chin/bite”. I just wanted to add that a person I know has had corrective jaw surgery, particularly for an underbite. She wore braces for two years prior and still needed the surgery. Her jaw was noticeably pronounced, creating more length to her face, but also more width near the molar region. Her voice was “nasally” but also “throaty”. After having the surgery, her voice has pitched a little higher when excited or happy, but her jaw is still pronounced in length and width. Her problem has been corrected. I agree with you about the chin and mouth.
Just MOO

 

[peel]

Are there any cases out there of male gays, conflicted or not, preferring to kill women or girls? How likely is it?

I don't know if he knew he was gay at the time, or maybe he didn't acknowledge it but the killer of the nurses in Chicago so many years ago became a <modsnip: unnecessary description> homosexual in prison..

 

[MassGuy]

it often seems that if a crime is committed, sexual attack is the coup de etat (sp?) ....the assault or crime excites the attacker .....there is some connection between violence and power and sex as a weapon......but what do I know....I don't understand men.....

this Delphi killer though.....he didn't have much time to do anything unless he came back at night before the angels were found.

I definitely don’t think he came back, as he was lucky just to get out of there in the first place.

It would have been a tremendous risk, one that would be uncommon in a crime like this.

After the adrenaline wore off, he would have been as nervous then, as he likely was following the latest press conference.

Hopefully he’s still scared.

 

[cluciano63]

Not to make light of any of this... but it really does not take most men much time to complete the sex act...and a guy like this one probably is, even less time than an average, healthy-minded male...imo.

 

[MassGuy]

One theory: What if BG had an accomplice waiting in the cemetery with a vehicle. An accomplice too "chicken" (or recognizable) to be in on the abduction but "brave" enough to provide a place to bring the girls. They may have planned to have the girls "disappear" after they were finished with them. Where the bodies were found (which is behind the cemetery) might be where the girls somehow made a break for it but were caught and killed quickly because they may have been making too much noise shouting for help. The murder site is very large... it does seem that it's that large because the girls broke away or fought back and may have run in different directions, purposely to try and confuse BG.

An alternative theory: I've read about how the FBI categorizes sexual (and other types) of crimes and how they study the people who commit such crimes. It seems, for some sexually motivated killers, the use of a knife... the action of using the knife in killing takes the place of a violent rape. Cutting off the victim's airway can achieve the same pleasurable result for the ... excuse me, please... the killer. Both methods bring the killer pleasure and feelings of great power when ordinarily he feels powerless in his every day life. These are considered sexual crimes even if rape is not involved... and even if the victim remains fully clothed throughout.

I’m convinced he did this alone, as most of these crimes are solo affairs.

This just looks like a one man job anyways.

As to your second point, that’s why I’m so curious as to what the crime scene looked like.

The overkill, the cutting, that sort of thing is something that guys like Jack The Ripper, and the Yorkshire Ripper did.

Now we have no idea if anything like that happened here, but as I think this guy is towards that end of the spectrum (disorganized), I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

[ab01]

I definitely don’t think he came back, as he was lucky just to get out of there in the first place.

It would have been a tremendous risk, one that would be uncommon in a crime like this.

After the adrenaline wore off, he would have been as nervous then, as he likely was following the latest press conference.

Hopefully he’s still scared.

Honestly I think that the entire coming back theory that has trickled along since the beginning, was due to the misconception of the pinging of a cell phone that never left the crime scene.

I think it’s a red herring in this case and it’s snowballed into an unlikely scenario

Jmo

 

[ilovechili]

Not to make light of any of this... but it really does not take most men to complete the sex act...and a guy like this one probably is, even less time than an average, healthy-minded male...imo.

I typically do not talk like that either but have been resisting over and over saying the same thing. I doubt he left the bridge before it was over for him.

On the other hand, it is scary because he is probably more enraged than ever... He should be at himself but will blame anyone else...

With some, control and power is everything because they have none so need to exercise it?

Everyone has their own opinion and I do not have a certain one but I disagree that these girls were in complete compliance, I think I read that the other day on here. To each their own opinion though. I would bet they took every chance they had to fight back although armed and enraged, he had the upper hand. I think the Coward had a bit of a time to plan such a crime but did not accomplish what his sick fantasy was. I am sure in his fantasy it was longer...

With that, I am going to stop commenting because I will say more and had better not.

Good night to one and all.

Very sad these two beautiful children ran into such a sick individual.

 

[ocgrad]

In 1975 there was a murder of a teenage girl in a northern Indiana town. It remains unsolved. I have spoken with the victims sister and law enforcement because I am working on producing the story as a documentary. The UMC in that town was/has been connected to the case because it was suspected that the victim was having a secret relationship with someone from the church. This has not been confirmed by LE. Also his behavior changed significantly after the murder according to family members.

I know there were religious references made during the press conference. IMO the only way that connects any church to the perpetrator is if someone's behavior has changed and LE is aware of it.

Sorry if this has already been asked, im behind. Changed in what way?

 

[Curious Guy]

I don't know if he knew he was gay at the time, or maybe he didn't acknowledge it but the killer of the nurses in Chicago so many years ago became a <modsnip: unnecessary description> homosexual in prison..

Richard Speck?

 

[n_6CC]

CASE MANAGEMENT for Missing Children Homicide Investigation May 2006 Rob McKenna Attorney General of Washington & U.S. Department of Justice Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention

Commonly, the killers are at the initial victim-killer contact site for a legitimate reason. They either live in the area or were engaging in some normal activity. Most of the victims of child abduction murder are victims of opportunity. Seldom does the killer choose his victim because of some physical characteristic of the victim. The primary motivation for the child abduction killer is sexual assault.

A unique pattern of distance relationships exists in child abduction murders. Often, the initial contact site is located very close to the victim’s last known location. Conversely, the distance between the Initial Contact Site and the Murder Site increases to distances greater than one-fourth mile. The distance from the Murder Site to the Body Recovery Site again decreases to less than 199 feet in the vast majority of cases.

It was discovered that once the murder investigation has begun, the name of the killer is likely to be in the investigative file within the first week. This provides an opportunity for investigators who may have run out of viable leads to regroup and review everyone whose name has been uncovered during the investigation. Similarly, it is not uncommon for the police to have actual contact with the killer before he becomes a primary suspect, for example, during the initial neighborhood canvass

Interesting thought of yours on the last page about the girls being taken to a second location........Did they ever give reason as to why they thought Libby’s phone was “pinging” around town the night of their disappearance? Libby’s grandfather mentioned that in an interview the night of the 13th when news crews were out at the bridge. I haven’t heard anything about the number of cell phone towers or if there is just one in that area. Also, I am a little directionally challenged when getting my footing on the route they took from the South end of the bridge, down the hill, but were the girls found upstream ? TIA MOO

 

[n_6CC]

Honestly I think that the entire coming back theory that has trickled along since the beginning, was due to the misconception of the pinging of a cell phone that never left the crime scene.

I think it’s a red herring in this case and it’s snowballed into an unlikely scenario

Jmo

Thanks for this-I just asked about that pinging cell phone!!

 

[cluciano63]

I doubt the girls would have really had a chance to fight back against a presumably armed killer...most people don’t, regardless of their personalities. Jmo

 

[MassGuy]

I doubt the girls would have really had a chance to fight back against a presumably armed killer...most people don’t, regardless of their personalities. Jmo

I agree.

The only way I could see something like that happening, is after the actual attack commenced.

Fighting spirit or not, if he had a gun pointed at them, they’d initially comply.

Once they realized what his intentions were, there was likely little they could do.

It is possible that one of them was able to scratch him, but that would likely be the extent of it.

 

[ocgrad]

Just adding my thoughts on some of today's threads. I believe the killer may come and go from the Delphi area (someone who travels frequently for business, a university student etc.) If the murder was about power I envision the perpetrator as someone with anger issues who has had little power over events in his life. I do not believe Abby or Libby witnesses anything as it would likely be videotaped and found. The day before V day may be of significance. It is possible BG could be gay but unable to Express his preference due to being shunned by his family. Do not think drug related. There might be a high level of drug users in Delphi and drug related criminal activity but not high organized crime.

I don't believe it is correct to say there is no high organized crime there. The drug cartel, Sinaloa I believe. Meth isn't cooked up too much in shacks any longer. If not in Delphi at least down the road in Lafayette.