Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #101

[Tippy Lynn]

Quoted BBM.
I think he did.

I believe he visited that place many, many times prior to the crime taking place.

I think he had it all planned out in his sick mind.

I am convinced that he knew exactly what vantage point(s) gave him the best view of where someone could be walking on the trail to the bridge and who was in proximity.

I think he knew approximately how many people were in and around the trails that day and picked his targets when he saw the time was right.

I believe he had walked that bridge many times and knew exactly how long it would take him to get across.

One unknown variable would have been he wouldn't have known how long it would take for the girls to cross the bridge.

This is a big question mark for me.

JMO

I agree 100%
jmo

 

[TL4S]

Except how would you know there would be one or more potential victims there that day and that you would have time to get away with this crime? If its a busy place, then you worry about getting caught. If its not too busy you need to come multiple times until the right circumstances present themselves.

I agree. He very well could have visited the trail before, looking for victims. However, a few things bother me about that idea. 1) Seemingly, there were witnesses who saw him on the trail that day (if it was truly BG they saw). If he was a semi-perpetual presence there, he would have likely been seen previously by either the witnesses, or other regular trail users who might recognize the sketch. 2) If you're going to stalk on a recurrent basis, I think you'd have things better planned out, and the bodies would have ended up much harder to find (yes, he could have been interrupted...). 3) If you have had it in your mind to kill someone for awhile, wouldn't you park your car somewhere less visible and easier to get back to without being seen? 4) If he was watching from his car, where it was possibly parked, he couldn't see the girls get dropped off. If he was on the trail, he most probably wouldn't have met up with them until near the bridge (because of where they were dropped off). Just seems to lessen the chances of meetup somehow. JMO

All of the above could be complete crap, I admit. But, IMO, he could have been on the road for any number of reasons and just happened to see them get dropped off. Something got triggered in his twisted mind, he made a quick decision to park behind the building and catch up with them, trailing until they were secluded, all the while pondering what the hell he was actually going to do if he did catch up. If he happened to have a gun in the car, I guess that just doesn't surprise me. That isn't unusual in the rural area I live.

Anyway, I'm not married to this idea. It's just what makes more sense to me right now.

 

[TL4S]

I really agree. MOO its like he played hide and seek there and knew where sound would not carry and that the flat below the cemetery was invisible to the trail and bridge.

I agree that he probably knew the turf, but he easily could have led them down the hill until the trail and bridge were simply out of his own sight. Then he'd know they were far enough. It just seems to me if BG was intimately familiar with the land, and had planned the entire thing out, he could have marched them to a location where they would have remained unfound for much, much longer.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Jmo, no way he could have expected to find teenage girls up there. Even if he did know that school was out that day, most teen girls head to the mall or just “hang out”.

Respectfully disagreeing with you, @cluciano63, since there *is* no "mall" in sweet Delphi! (But I'm sure the local hs kids would love it, if there were.)

To your thought that "no way he could have expected to find teenage girls up there...": I believe, though, that he's very tech-savvy and a generally observant person (MOO), and whether technology did/did not play a part, it is my earnest belief (and entirely speculation) that he **was** checking in at the bridge ***frequently*** to see *when* (now THAT is a totally creepy thought) A & L would finally arrive there at the bridge.

Whether he overheard a conversation (as several other WS posters have hypothesized) at a convenience store, or whether he "heard/saw" online (say, some common group FB post, or perhaps there's a "Delphi Outdoors" group, etc., of which they were all members, I can't say for sure) that they would be heading to the bridge that unseasonably warm Feb. 13th afternoon -- who knows? I think, along with several other WS-ers, that the case *does* bear certain similarities in that respect to the recent JC/JP case.

For a long time (perhaps a year and a half at least) I have suspected that there was *less* than the classic "6 degrees of separation" between at least one of the girls and the person who showed up on the bridge that day -- but I'll leave that whole discussion for another time! MOO

 

[Falling Down]

I've said the same many times. I could see someone driving past and maybe seeing a sign about the trail and this could be anyone with no prior knowledge of the area. BUT where Abigail and Liberty were found would make me suspect this person is familiar with the trail AND the surrounding area.

Having been there to C.R. 300 and area around it, whoever BG is had to know the bridge is there, and how to get to it. Which means someone told him, someone had taken him to it before, or he researched it online. It's not easy to find, no signs on IN 25, and the one sign by the trail access A&L were dropped off at is set back from the road. This wasn't some random deal, in my mind. He had been there before, and planned out his fantasy or what have you well beforehand.

I keep coming back to the possibility that this person lived in the area in their childhood and moved away. OR would visit an aunt/uncle or grandparent in or near Delphi when they were a child. If he hasn't spent much time in the area since, then his appearance may have changed enough that locals would not make the connection to the sketch. If such a relative is deceased or moved away that would also decrease the chance of a connection being made.

It has to be frustrating to people following this case that the "new/old" primary sketch was sat on by LE for two years. In two years, someone's appearance can change quite a bit.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

I agree that he probably knew with the turf, but he easily could have led them down the hill until the trail and bridge was simply out of his own site. Then he'd know they were far enough. It just seems to me if was intimately familiar with the land, and had planned the entire thing out, he could have marched them to a location where they would have remained unfound for much, much longer.

I have been thinking that he wanted them found.

I think he left them in a state he was 'proud' of in his disgusting demented mind.

If he was concerned about them being found....I think he would have chosen a different location to leave them in.

JMO

 

[ilovechili]

IMO they have thoroughly profiled the murderer and he was reacting in a manner meant to affect the killer.

I also think he has genuine emotion from working this case. We have to remember, these guys aren't people reading about this case on the internet. He has heard ALL the audio. He knows exactly what it sounded like as those girls were murdered.

He has seen their bodies. He knows exactly what they looked like after their monster was through with them.

And he has looked into their loved one's eyes. He knows exactly what toll these murders have taken on the victim's loved ones. People to whom e has undoubtedly promised justice. This is his state. These are his people.

For him, it's quite personal.

BBM. Excellent post but this part especially stands out to me. Where LE, doctors, etc., can get used to seeing automobile accidents, tragedy, cancer, death, etc. and most of us have dealt with a loss of a loved one, they have to develop a bit of a thick skin with what they get to see, even in a small town. Yet I would hope and think most are good and it still hits home when they deal with a family of a murdered loved one in that they do see the raw pain in their eyes, the reaction over such tragedy and the need for answers and justice that gives them reason to go all out to get that family from their own town justice. Or in this case, families (plural).

I did not word this as well as I wanted to but yes, it is personal to him. Your remark too that these are "his people". It is how we would hope our LE is and feel they should be, dedicated to justice.

I am a bit jaded in that I do not think all people everywhere in such positions feel this way but I agree it seems like here, he does. It happened in his town, on his watch and to his people as you said.

He will get CCC and has every intent of doing so. CCC should be very concerned for his own arse if he is not...

 

[TL4S]

I have been thinking that he wanted them found.

I think he left them in a state he was 'proud' of in his disgusting demented mind.

If he was concerned about them being found....I think he would have chosen a different location to leave them in.

JMO

That's all very true. Without knowledge of the crime scene, we're all just guessing on this account. But after two years, if he was proud, I'd suspect more crimes to have occurred (which perhaps they have?). Total conjecture, though.

 

[Falling Down]

I will remind you again, with scare tactics and phraseology a la the chilling words of Gavin deBecker:

Never let anyone take you to a second location.

You will never have a chance as good to escape, as you do at the first point of contact.

Nothing awaits you at a second location other than your death.

The "second location" is almost always someone's "kill van", survivalist shelter, etc., etc., where that villain has the home court advantage. You have no advantages greater than you have at the point in time of first approach. Run, scream "Fire!", kick, punch first; ask questions later. I say this periodically on WS with emphasis added because to me it's worth it; if one person remembers it in their time of need.

Another thing I've heard recommended is to have a cell phone's emergency setting enabled, for example it can be set various ways. Press the "on" button 3 times, that sort of thing. The phone can then take photos, video, audio, etc., and will send GPS coordinates to recipients, which can include 911 if that part of the setting is enabled.

 

[TL4S]

BBM. Excellent post but this part especially stands out to me. Where LE, doctors, etc., can get used to seeing automobile accidents, tragedy, cancer, death, etc. and most of us have dealt with a loss of a loved one, they have to develop a bit of a thick skin with what they get to see, even in a small town. Yet I would hope and think most are good and it still hits home when they deal with a family of a murdered loved one in that they do see the raw pain in their eyes, the reaction over such tragedy and the need for answers and justice that gives them reason to go all out to get that family from their own town justice. Or in this case, families (plural).

I did not word this as well as I wanted to but yes, it is personal to him. Your remark too that these are "his people". It is how we would hope our LE is and feel they should be, dedicated to justice.

I am a bit jaded in that I do not think all people everywhere in such positions feel this way but I agree it seems like here, he does. It happened in his town, on his watch and to his people as you said.

He will get CCC and has every intent of doing so. CCC should be very concerned for his own arse if he is not...

Plus, at that PC, he had just talked to the family, who were visibly emotional afterwards. It had to have been difficult for everybody involved.

 

[squareandrabbet]

Another thing I've heard recommended is to have a cell phone's emergency setting enabled, for example it can be set various ways. Press the "on" button 3 times, that sort of thing. The phone can then take photos, video, audio, etc., and will send GPS coordinates to recipients, which can include 911 if that part of the setting is enabled.

Phenomenal, thanks. You've prompted me to figure out mine. (PSA: For any iPhone users with iOS 11 or later, it's "press the side button rapidly 5 times in succession, to bring up a slider screen for emergency services quick dial") . Unfortunately no photo or video capability, but it will alert the medical alert contacts you've chosen that you have, in fact, activated the alert.

 

[MistyWaters]

I have been thinking that he wanted them found.

I think he left them in a state he was 'proud' of in his disgusting demented mind.

If he was concerned about them being found....I think he would have chosen a different location to leave them in.

JMO

I agree with you, they were intended to be found in that location. He had the option of placing their bodies in the nearby river hoping they’d be carried downstream with the current, thus removing any immediate connection to a crime scene and possible DNA evidence on their bodies. Depending on the cause of death then it might’ve initially appeared they fell off the bridge.

 

[Charlot123]

Jmo, no way he could have expected to find teenage girls up there. Even if he did know that school was out that day, most teen girls head to the mall or just “hang out”. Maybe he was hoping for a female jogger or any lone woman hiking...but he could not expect he would find one. He likely carried whatever weapon he used all the time. That is all he would need...a gun or a knife.

The issue is, if he did not find anyone that day, he’d get back and do it another time. February 13th might have less importance than one thinks.

 

[ab01]

I agree with you, they were intended to be found in that location. He had the option of placing their bodies in the nearby river hoping they’d be carried downstream with the current, thus removing any immediate connection to a crime scene and possible DNA evidence on their bodies. Depending on the cause of death then it might’ve initially appeared they fell off the bridge.

Honestly I think his biggest concern was not being found with them

I don't think they were placed in a certain peculiar way or even with much thought

I think he killed them and got the heck out of there as quickly as possible

JMO

 

[TL4S]

Honestly I think his biggest concern was not being found with them

I don't think they were placed in a certain peculiar way or even with much thought

I think he killed them and got the heck out of there as quickly as possible

JMO

Yes. I don't think he was even with them long enough to think through how they'd be found. JMO

 

[Snoop Sister]

I don't believe it has ever been confirmed which end he walked onto first.

You bring up a very good theory that I have not seen explored so far.

Yes, this has been discussed prior.

 

[Charlot123]

Yes. I don't think he was even with them long enough to think through how they'd be found. JMO

They were found the next day. Any chance he planned on being with them more, but got scared?

 

[mtnlites]

Honestly I think his biggest concern was not being found with them

I don't think they were placed in a certain peculiar way or even with much thought

I think he killed them and got the heck out of there as quickly as possible

JMO

That's what I think as well. I believe a half-hearted attempt may have been made to throw some leaves and sticks over them, but I mostly think that after they were killed he just got the heck out of dodge. I don't think he hung around to do anything specific.

 

[wary]

I agree and I have heard the same.

Abby looks like she is walking so carefully in that photo...could 5 minutes have turned into 10?

He needed to make sure they crossed the bridge completely to isolate them.

My question is....how could he be sure they would do so before anyone else came in the vicinity?

I imagine that if someone else came into the vicinity, he would have aborted his plans—moved to same place, another day, or another place, another day.

If he had already started his attack when another person came on the scene, maybe he would have killed that person, or more likely have been caught, or possibly have escaped and not been caught.

In other words—he couldn’t have been sure—and that’s how many violent criminals operate.

All in my opinion, of course.

 

[Onaliv]

The issue is, if he did not find anyone that day, he’d get back and do it another time. February 13th might have less importance than one thinks.

Good point - for all anyone knows BG could have stalked this location for a long time before finding the opportunity of these girls.